OKPAY debit cards, 10% tax Cyprus debited?

[davout]

Davout, in Portuguese there's a proverb that translated is something like "Don't spit up, it may fall back on your face".

France is not that immune from these kind of heists... nobody in the Eurozone is, actually.

I didn't spit on anyone, I just considered myself lucky, that's all. But I do love your proverb.
Sucks for all those that got a haircut.
And you're definitely right, nobody is immune.

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[Vladimir]

In Russia this would be "Do not piss against the wind."


Did I get it right. OKpay or whomever got their bank account raided and they have passed it onto their customers? This cannot be lawful. Their "taxes" is their responsibility, not their customers. The accounts in Cyprus banks are not in the names of the cardholders, are they? Will they next pass on corporation tax as "an unrecognized transaction" tomorrow?

[MPOE-PR]

Just received this email a few moments ago, it's related to CSC24Seven

Cyprus bailout effect
   
Dear Customer,

As you have probably already learned from the news, the Cypriot government is planning to introduce a one-time tax on all customer accounts held with Cypriot financial institution. In order to secure the collection of this tax, many customers have had funds blocked against their accounts held in Cyprus-based banking institutions.

UWC Financial Services Ltd issued a statement confirming that Cyprus bailout will have no effect on the funds held in our customers accounts, as these funds are kept outside Cyprus. For our UWCFS Quick Cards it is regrettable that customers that are holders of the CSC24Seven issued cards will have probably noticed that an unrecognised transaction has been issued on their cards over the weekend 16th-17th March 2013.

CSC24Seven the card issuing bank has originated these transactions under instruction from the government of Cyprus to ensure the collection of this tax from all account holders. While it is still unclear whether the tax will affect all accounts or just savings accounts, bank accounts or specific other types of accounts remains to be confirmed but until the final decision (expected Tuesday 19th March 2013) is announced, the funds blocked on UWCFS Quick Cards are under the control and disposal of the card issuing bank (CSC24Seven).

CSC24Seven has assured UWC Financial Services Ltd, if in the event that e-money (pre-paid card) accounts are granted exclusion from the bailout scheme, the blocked funds will be reversed back to pre-pard card accounts.

UWC Financial Services Ltd are in continued communication with CSC24Seven and we are continually monitoring the situation and endeavour to keep our customers updated on any further development.

You can find more information on the situation in Cyprus in our daily market reviews from Mayzus Investment Company Ltd http://www.mayzus.com/en/market-reviews/marketreview-3444.html

Kind regards,
Nikolay Rozhok
CEO
UWC Financial Services Ltd

First linode stole from us, and then we boycotted linode.

Then dwolla stole from us, and we boycotted dwolla.

Now Cyprus steals from us, and so we shall boycott Cyprus.

Or maybe we just don't give a shit.

In Russia this would be "Do not piss against the wind."


Did I get it right. OKpay or whomever got their bank account raided and they have passed it onto their customers? This cannot be lawful. Their "taxes" is their responsibility, not their customers. The accounts in Cyprus banks are not in the names of the cardholders, are they? Will they next pass on corporation tax as "an unrecognized transaction" tomorrow?

Yes well, obviously they'll play it both ways if they can.

[Vladimir]

Cyprus/EU has not stolen from us. At worst they shaved CSC24Seven bank account. Then CSC24Seven has in turn shaved it's customers. I suppose it would be OK (pun intended) if every cardholder had a segregated Cyprus bank account backing the card via CSC24Seven. But somehow I really doubt that this is a case. Here come lawsuits....

https://www.okpay.com/en/company/agreements/debit-cards-tos.html now where exactly it said that it is OK for OKpay to charge their customers for "taxes" of OKpay?


This is a much bigger story than many realize.

[Vladimir]

My balance has lost 10% of value over the week-end

Was your balance higher than 100 000$ EUR?

[caveden]

In Russia this would be "Do not piss against the wind."


Did I get it right. OKpay or whomever got their bank account raided and they have passed it onto their customers? This cannot be lawful. Their "taxes" is their responsibility, not their customers. The accounts in Cyprus banks are not in the names of the cardholders, are they? Will they next pass on corporation tax as "an unrecognized transaction" tomorrow?

Every business passes its taxes on to its customers, always. How else are they supposed to operate?
That shouldn't be news.

[davout]

Cyprus/EU has not stolen from us. At worst they shaved CSC24Seven bank account. Then CSC24Seven has in turn shaved it's customers. I suppose it would be OK (pun intended) if every cardholder had a segregated Cyprus bank account backing the card via CSC24Seven. But somehow I really doubt that this is a case. Here come lawsuits....

https://www.okpay.com/en/company/agreements/debit-cards-tos.html now where exactly it said that it is OK for OKpay to charge their customers for "taxes" of OKpay?


This is a much bigger story than many realize.

You have an account there, you get shaved, OK pay doesn't get taxed, the customer does.
As much as the shaving is retarded the fact that the customer pays is plain logical.

There's just one thing, the accounts should be segregated so the lower tax tier should be applied.

[Vladimir]

No I have no account. Purely an independent observer here with only vested interest being intense dislike of the banksters and their thieving ways.

I will agree with you if every specific debit cards has an underlying bank account in Cyprus in the name of the specific customer and this account is segregated from account of the card issuer. However knowing typical pricing and terms of such accounts I find this rather improbable. Yes most likely there is more than one account and some accounts are used by the card issuer for their own money and some separate account is for aggregated blocks of debit cards. But these accounts are very likely in the card issuer name not in debit card holder names.

I speculate that these  accounts are in the name of UWC Financial Services Ltd with a Cyprus Bank (or whatever up-link is between them and actual bank account) and they got 10% haircut since the amount is more than 130k$.

Then they simply pass it to the customers. I find it highly doubtful that anyone would have more than 130k$ on a prepaid OKpay debit card and the OP has reported 10% haircut not 6.75% one. You cannot deny the disconnect between 10% and 6.75% here.

[davout]

No I have no account. Purely an independent observer here with only vested interest being intense dislike of the banksters and their thieving ways.

I will agree with you if customer debit cards have underlying bank account in Cyprus in the name of every specific customer and every debit card has an underlying segregated bank account. However knowing pricing and terms of such account I find this rather improbable.

However, I speculate that there is one account in the name of UWC Financial Services Ltd with a Cyprus Bank (or whatever up-link is between them and actual bank account) and they got 10% haircut. Then they simply pass it to the customers. I find it highly doubtful that anyone would have more than 130k$ on a prepaid OKpay debit card and the OP has reported 10% haircut not 6.75% one.

I don't really know OKPay that much, do they have anonymous debit cards? if so it's doubtful that the funds be segregated. But hey I don't know, I'm not OKPay, so it's purely speculation.

[matt4054]

As I said previously, I still have no written statement of the levy, but after calculating it from counterpart statements, I can tell that the levy was 6.75% (in my case, with about $200 on my account) and not 9.9% as I first thought.

The most curious thing about the situation is being left without *any* information and/or support. I did not even receive the e-mail from UWC FC that was pasted in this topic. My support requests are now left unanswered for more than 24h, within business days. As I told them already, although I support OKPAY for their Bitcoin acceptance, I cannot understand the lack of communication on their side about this problem.

[Vladimir]

ok if it is 6.75 then things are getting clearer a bit. I suppose there is a reasonable possibility that they will have such "second tier" financial services providers to act as "tax collectors" and fleece their customers on behalf of ultimately German banksters completely "legimately". It obviously still sucks big time.

If you have only 200$ there and if they will not "tax" <20k deposits as they reportedly want to do it now then it will get refunded to you. And surely the reason why OKpay is not saying much is because they do not know themselves yet what the hell is going on.

The reason why they charged so prompty is probably because they do not want to freeze cards and at the same time want to avoid mini "prepaid debit card run". If I personally had any non trivial money with any financial institution I would run on saturday 16th.

[matt4054]

And surely the reason why OKpay is not saying much is because they do not know themselves yet what the hell is going on.

I could totally understand if they at least issued a public statement regarding this, saying something like "Allright guys, something has gone terribly wrong in Europe / Cyprus, we don't know the outcome yet, but we're working hard to protect your funds as much as we can".

Even if it's PR BS, it's still better than silence / ignoring requests. In my opinion, it is due diligence from any financial institution.

2 business days later, my inquiries are still left unanswered. And yes, I'm bitching about it...

[matt4054]

Happy End at least for me (don't know if the following was sent to all card holders or just me)

Dear XXXXX,
 
Please note that the recent authorization to your account made by CSC24Seven.com has been removed.
 
You now have full access to your funds.
 
Apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.
 
Kind Regards,
Support Team
CSC24Seven.com Ltd.

[ShadowAlexey]

Are this cards still operable?

[matt4054]

Yes, I tried a test transaction, my CSC24Seven / OKPAY debit card is still green, I can use it, transactions are authorised.

I think they're just having a hard time with their government at the moment

Besides, I can confirm that the rogue government transaction was refunded to my account by the bank within a couple of days. I can only regret the lack of prompt information from them, although I can understand that it was caused by an unprecedented, scandalous decision upstream that should never have been taken in the first place.

My conclusion of the story: I take it as a real-life warning that I should no longer have trust in the government for not stealing money from their population's bank accounts if their debt shall become to high. It doesn't matter that it is the result of a biased political system where it's OK to just let dumb people listen to dumb promises made by (sometimes not even) smart looking, yet dumb presidents... (just my 2 satoshis here).

PS: I am no longer selling my bitcoins for fiat currency at the moment. Who among sane people does anyway?

[Enigma81]

on behalf of ultimately German banksters completely "legimately".

The haircut potential sucks for everyone involved - I agree.. But how can you blame the Germans?  No one is holding a gun to Cyprus's collective head and forcing them to accept the loan.

The EU (Germany+all others) made it pretty simple.. We'll give you a (HUGE) loan, but you have to come up with some collateral first.  Cyprus CAN say no to the terms.

Enigma

[Vladimir]

I do not blame Germans. I blame banksters.

[S-Fattah]

By the way, returning to the subject "OKPAY debit cards, 10% tax Cyprus debited?"
OKPAY reports: "We are happy to inform you that the funds blocked on OKPAY Debit Cards as well as limitations have been removed. Eventually the events on Cyprus did not cause any negative effect on our customer's funds. Please feel free to use your OKPAY Debit Card as usual".