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Author Topic: Paypal not reversible for Bitcoins  (Read 2720 times)
Zedster
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March 18, 2013, 03:45:14 PM
 #1

Just wondering since Paypal considers Bitcoin a virtual good and will not refund your money in the case you don't receive your goods why its so frowned upon to sell with Paypal?

I know this to be fact as I am being screwed by Paypal as we speak.  I assumed with all that is said about Paypal being able to charge back that attempting to buy coins with PayPal should be safe for the buyer and bad for the seller.  That is not the case.


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SgtSpike
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March 18, 2013, 03:48:00 PM
 #2

You've already answered your own questions.
why its so frowned to sell with Paypal?
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PayPal should be safe for the buyer and bad for the seller.
It IS bad for the seller.  That's why you never see people selling BTC for Paypal, and those who attempt to do so get screwed.
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March 18, 2013, 03:50:04 PM
 #3

If you sell bitcoins for paypal then this is what is likely to happen.

Send bitcoins and receiver sends paypal cash.

Receiver now does a chargeback on the money sent and reclaims his/her money.

Sender now has no bitcoin, no money, and no recourse, as PayPal will never help anyone with a bitcoin related claim. Remember bitcoin competes directly with bitcoin.

DO NOT USE PayPal!!!!

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
Zedster
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March 18, 2013, 03:51:49 PM
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You can not do a charge back on virtual goods.   This is my point!  Leaving the buyer screwed not the seller

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March 18, 2013, 03:53:02 PM
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You can not do a charge back on virtual goods.   This is my point!
Check the forums, sadly it happens every day.   Sad


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bitsource
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March 18, 2013, 03:54:28 PM
 #6

Paypal do what they want - if there is any transaction contested by the buyer - Paypal will always side by the buyer and the seller looses - this is my painful experience as the seller.

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Zedster
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March 18, 2013, 03:54:36 PM
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Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item, which is not covered under PayPal
Purchase Protection.  We only cover claims involving physical items that
can be shipped and tracked.

This is from Paypal

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March 18, 2013, 03:55:40 PM
 #8

You can not do a charge back on virtual goods.   This is my point!  Leaving the buyer screwed not the seller

Yes you can especially if it was funded via CC. PP makes their own rules as they go and each case can be solved with different rules as they see fit.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
RodeoX
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March 18, 2013, 03:59:05 PM
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Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item, which is not covered under PayPal
Purchase Protection.  We only cover claims involving physical items that
can be shipped and tracked.

This is from Paypal
Interesting. Now tell them the item is bitcoin and see what happens. PayPal also has a policy against any digital currency being traded. Your account can be locked and it can take a long time to get your money out upon locking.

You can try, but when you have been ripped off don't expect much sympathy from the peers in this forum. 

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

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Zedster
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March 18, 2013, 04:01:20 PM
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Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item, which is not covered under PayPal
Purchase Protection.  We only cover claims involving physical items that
can be shipped and tracked.

This is from Paypal
Interesting. Now tell them the item is bitcoin and see what happens. PayPal also has a policy against any digital currency being traded. Your account can be locked and it can take a long time to get your money out upon locking.

You can try, but when you have been ripped off don't expect much sympathy from the peers in this forum.  

I have told them it was for BTC since its on the invoice.  Not looking for sympathy just trying to figure out how people can do charge backs and get away with it as I would like my money back.

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March 18, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
 #11


I have told them it was for BTC since its on the invoice.

Wow, maybe they have given up? lol

I would still be very careful. Bitcoin chargeback is the most common scam I see here.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

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Zedster
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March 18, 2013, 04:06:23 PM
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I have told them it was for BTC since its on the invoice.

Wow, maybe they have given up? lol

I would still be very careful. Bitcoin chargeback is the most common scam I see here.

Not anymore now its better to be the seller and not sell anything.  All the seller had to do was say "Yes I have given him the items" no wallet ID no nothing.  Basically I am hoping to help any other idiot such as myself that believes what is said in these forums to be the concrete truth, because I can tell you it's not.

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March 18, 2013, 04:14:00 PM
 #13

Plot twist:  Paypal is evil and simply steals the money from BOTH users, telling the seller that the buyer charged back, and telling the buyer that they cannot refund the purchase since it was for digital goods.
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March 18, 2013, 04:16:48 PM
 #14

You should change your title to "PayPal not reversible for honest people".

A scammer would simply dispute the tx as "unauthorized" claim they never made it and have no idea how it showed up on his/her account.  The scammer would have the funds back by now.  Being honest you just screwed yourself.

This shows why you shouldn't use PayPal (as either buyer or seller) unless you trust the counterparty.  A scammer is going to know every trick and trap and the honest joe is just going to get robbed.
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Gerald Davis


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March 18, 2013, 04:18:25 PM
 #15

Not anymore now its better to be the seller and not sell anything.  All the seller had to do was say "Yes I have given him the items" no wallet ID no nothing.  Basically I am hoping to help any other idiot such as myself that believes what is said in these forums to be the concrete truth, because I can tell you it's not.

Doesn't work if the buyer claims he never made the purchase, or it is a genuinely hacked/stolen PayPal account, or it was funded by a stolen credit card, etc.  Plenty of ways for a dishonest buyer to pull a scam.   You didn't know what you were doing and like talking to the cops without a lawyer just backed yourself into a corner. 
Zedster
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March 18, 2013, 04:27:36 PM
 #16

Not anymore now its better to be the seller and not sell anything.  All the seller had to do was say "Yes I have given him the items" no wallet ID no nothing.  Basically I am hoping to help any other idiot such as myself that believes what is said in these forums to be the concrete truth, because I can tell you it's not.

Doesn't work if the buyer claims he never made the purchase, or it is a genuinely hacked/stolen PayPal account, or it was funded by a stolen credit card, etc.  Plenty of ways for a dishonest buyer to pull a scam.   You didn't know what you were doing and like talking to the cops without a lawyer just backed yourself into a corner. 

Yep this explains a bit.  I was not going to lie to do the right thing.  Maybe I should have.  I still have one option. Paypal has said that if it is determined that the company is a fraud I should get my money back.  Guess I should have lied.

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March 18, 2013, 04:32:15 PM
 #17

It often depends on the buyer's reaction. During the PaypalCase procedure the buyer is asked for proof of delivery. If the buyer does as requested, e.g. sending a scan of the invoice, he will loose the case most likely.
If the buyer simply states "Seller protection does not apply. Intangible goods!", then he has a good chance of winning the PaypalCase.
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March 18, 2013, 09:39:10 PM
 #18

I know this to be fact as I am being screwed by Paypal as we speak

You are not being screwed by PayPal, you bought something that wasn't delivered.  You made the assumption that you were protected by PayPal but they are avoiding that using technicality (by saying you bought a digital good).

How did you pay for your purchase, from a PayPal balance, or with credit card?   If you paid with credit card, you can charge back through your credit card issuer. 

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March 19, 2013, 09:55:46 AM
 #19

Filing an intangible item as "not received" or SNAD -> you lose dispute.

Filing as unauthorized payment -> you win pretty much most of the time.

THAT is the difference.
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March 19, 2013, 01:03:35 PM
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