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Author Topic: Things getting interesting once we past $100  (Read 17261 times)
Dalkore
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March 19, 2013, 07:10:13 PM
 #21

How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?


Face to face trades.

Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'll gladly pay the transaction fees/withdrawal fees of trading my bitcoins into USD and then transfering USD to my bank account.
I'm paying  my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
So you don't use roads?  You don't take advantage of the electrical grid?  You aren't protected by the US army?  You won't receive social security?

/devilsadvocate

Yes, I do... that's why I have a regular job that tax me %28 of my income so, the money that I invest in buying mining equipment or btc has already been taxed...


Now this line of reasoning might actually have some legs.   I find myself very sympathetic to it.

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SgtSpike
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March 19, 2013, 07:11:37 PM
 #22

How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?


Face to face trades.

Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'll gladly pay the transaction fees/withdrawal fees of trading my bitcoins into USD and then transfering USD to my bank account.
I'm paying  my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
So you don't use roads?  You don't take advantage of the electrical grid?  You aren't protected by the US army?  You won't receive social security?

/devilsadvocate

Yes, I do... that's why I have a regular job that tax me %28 of my income so, the money that I invest in buying mining equipment or btc has already been taxed...


Now this line of reasoning might actually have some legs.   I find myself very sympathetic to it.
But the gain of that investment wouldn't have been taxed yet.  And you can (rightfully) deduct the expense of your investment to avoid being taxed twice on it.
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March 19, 2013, 07:15:54 PM
 #23

How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?


Face to face trades.

Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'll gladly pay the transaction fees/withdrawal fees of trading my bitcoins into USD and then transfering USD to my bank account.
I'm paying  my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
So you don't use roads?  You don't take advantage of the electrical grid?  You aren't protected by the US army?  You won't receive social security?

/devilsadvocate

Yes, I do... that's why I have a regular job that tax me %28 of my income so, the money that I invest in buying mining equipment or btc has already been taxed...


Now this line of reasoning might actually have some legs.   I find myself very sympathetic to it.
But the gain of that investment wouldn't have been taxed yet.  And you can (rightfully) deduct the expense of your investment to avoid being taxed twice on it.

Would this be an investment or a method of creating a Bitcoin dividend? 

Does Bitcoin has official designation under the tax code?  I saw the guidance of the U.S. Treasury calling it a "virtual currency" but does that mean the IRS is treating it as that.  Until we have official designation under the tax code, I do not believe he should need to declare it at this time.   

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SgtSpike
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March 19, 2013, 07:35:52 PM
 #24

How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?


Face to face trades.

Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'll gladly pay the transaction fees/withdrawal fees of trading my bitcoins into USD and then transfering USD to my bank account.
I'm paying  my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
So you don't use roads?  You don't take advantage of the electrical grid?  You aren't protected by the US army?  You won't receive social security?

/devilsadvocate

Yes, I do... that's why I have a regular job that tax me %28 of my income so, the money that I invest in buying mining equipment or btc has already been taxed...


Now this line of reasoning might actually have some legs.   I find myself very sympathetic to it.
But the gain of that investment wouldn't have been taxed yet.  And you can (rightfully) deduct the expense of your investment to avoid being taxed twice on it.

Would this be an investment or a method of creating a Bitcoin dividend? 

Does Bitcoin has official designation under the tax code?  I saw the guidance of the U.S. Treasury calling it a "virtual currency" but does that mean the IRS is treating it as that.  Until we have official designation under the tax code, I do not believe he should need to declare it at this time.   
It would be taxed as income at the time it is generated.  Any increases/decreases in value after generation, if held for less than two years before sold, would be treated as ordinary income, if held for more than two years before sold, would be treated as capital gains/loss.

That is my understanding of the application of existing tax laws as of 4 years ago when I took a tax accounting class.  I treat it as capital gains exactly because the IRS hasn't made any official rulings on it - they haven't declared it to be a valid foreign currency, so I don't see treating it as gains on foreign exchange as the correct route to go yet.  In my opinion, it cannot be declared as anything other than an asset (and gains/losses on that asset would be treated as such) until further ruling from the IRS.
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March 19, 2013, 07:38:15 PM
 #25

If you have a lot of coin and want the US dollar instead, just post an ad saying you'll accept a wire transfer.  Use an escrow.  Somebody out there already wants your coin right now but doesn't want to dick around with MtGox and their interest is bigger than the limits of those like BitInstant.  And, you'll probably be able to move it all with no slippage, and they'll be happy to buy with no slippage.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
deathcode
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March 19, 2013, 07:51:23 PM
 #26

So now that there's another "bubble" at full speed, I'm reaching a point where crossing $100 will mean that me as well as others are making some serious money (I'll leave up to you to define what serious money is)
My concern now is, what if i want to sell and withdraw the money to my US Bank Account.
How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?
What if I transfer small amounts ($1000 at a time ever week or so..)
Any accountants in the forum to help me do the laundry? Tongue


Thank you! It only took 20+ posts to get an actual response Smiley
Make sure you are moving LESS than $10k per month is the most important (There is a daily limit as well but can't recall what that is, so I'd double check that... I think it's $3K per day but don't quote me on that.....),  after that if you need to move more (and I kind of would recommend this at the $5k+ mark anyway) start buying goods/services directly, great opportunity to start using pre-paid credit cards, gift cards, etc. as these will remain untracked, just make sure you deal with reputable vendors not ones fencing stolen cards otherwise you still may find your way to the wrong side of the law but in a worse kind of way!

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March 19, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
 #27

Until we have official designation under the tax code, I do not believe he should need to declare it at this time.  

That's a very dangerous strategy opinion! If you need to buy a lot of USD, make sure you talk to an accountant.

I've never sold bitcoins for dollars and hope I never will. I had no idea I was interested in money until I had the opportunity to use it freely without running afoul of arbitrary, confusing, detailed, and sometimes retroactive rules. It was a chilling effect; the potential gains from managing money properly were outweighed by the risk of imprisonment if I messed up. Every time an accountant or lawyer said "it depends" I cringed.

No way do I want to go back to that minefield.
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March 19, 2013, 08:04:19 PM
 #28

buy goods and service with bitcoin directly.

Agreed.

That's the cost of transferring your wealth into "uncle sam" system.

Use Bitcoin directly. Now is a good time for a real BTC debit card.

+1
Why everyone wants to "cash out" when you worked so hard to get better cash is beyond me.  you can buy almost anything with BTC these days.

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Dalkore
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March 19, 2013, 09:23:20 PM
 #29

Until we have official designation under the tax code, I do not believe he should need to declare it at this time.   

That's a very dangerous strategy! If you need to buy a lot of USD, make sure you talk to an accountant.

I've never sold bitcoins for dollars and hope I never will. I had no idea I was interested in money until I had the opportunity to use it freely without running afoul of arbitrary, confusing, detailed, and sometimes retroactive rules. It was a chilling effect; the potential gains from managing money properly were outweighed by the risk of imprisonment if I messed up. Every time an accountant or lawyer said "it depends" I cringed.

No way do I want to go back to that minefield.

This was just an opinion not a strategy.  I agree however, you should talk to a qualified financial professional about these questions.  You don't want to be caught in a tough position.

D

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March 19, 2013, 09:58:50 PM
 #30

See the FinCEN statement? If you use bitcoin to directly buy things, you don't need to pay anything Cheesy
This might work out like a turbo for the Bitcoin economy.

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CleverMiner
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March 19, 2013, 10:12:17 PM
 #31

Your title is wasting my time,

Why 100$ and not 47$, should simply be "avoiding Tax on USD withdrawal" or something UNinteresting.
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March 19, 2013, 10:22:32 PM
 #32

See the FinCEN statement? If you use bitcoin to directly buy things, you don't need to pay anything Cheesy
This might work out like a turbo for the Bitcoin economy.

Like "under the table", but in this case, "around uncle Sam".
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March 19, 2013, 11:32:51 PM
 #33

Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).

a system that you BENEFIT from? hahahahaha

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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March 19, 2013, 11:36:55 PM
 #34

Yeah. Benefit.

As in Fire department, police, military, roads, education, food safety and other consumer protection, social safety net, etc.
deathcode
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March 19, 2013, 11:37:12 PM
 #35

Your title is wasting my time,

Why 100$ and not 47$, should simply be "avoiding Tax on USD withdrawal" or something UNinteresting.


If we hit $100 my btc capital will hit 6 figures. So please do stop reading if I'm wasting your time. Better yet, do not post anything else on this thread. Thank you

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March 20, 2013, 02:25:10 AM
 #36

Solution:  Avoid the dollar like the plague to humanity it has become.

If you're selling bitconi move to gold, silver, platinum, litecoin, namecoin (whichever you feel is the best deal).  Do it direct without ever touching the dollar.

If you're so pessimistic about the dollar, you should try using Argentinean Pesos for a while, you'll be back to loving the dollar in no time Smiley

I'm not only pessimistic, but ethically and morally opposed to all forms of enslavement.  Fiat enslavement being the most insidious.

That system can only exist if we support it.  I keep my wealth out of all forms of fiat, doing my part to starve that system to death.

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March 20, 2013, 04:16:06 AM
 #37

Turning this thread back on topic.

Things getting interesting once we past $100, because at that point the bitcoin has to rise a dollar a day, else it gets boring, and a dollar a day is also a nice alliteration, which is a mighty bullish signal.
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March 20, 2013, 01:31:06 PM
 #38

You won't receive social security?

/devilsadvocate

Most of us won't...that Ponzi scheme is unsustainable on its current course.

/reality

+1

I like the /devilsadvocate followed by /reality


sad but true !
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March 20, 2013, 03:35:27 PM
 #39

Yeah. Benefit.

As in Fire department, police, military, roads, education, food safety and other consumer protection, social safety net, etc.

I would argue that with the exception of fire department and roads, none of these listed here are beneficial for me in their form and the former two can be provided by other parties than the government.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
MarlboroMan
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March 20, 2013, 03:53:34 PM
 #40

How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?


Face to face trades.

Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'll gladly pay the transaction fees/withdrawal fees of trading my bitcoins into USD and then transfering USD to my bank account.
I'm paying  my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
So you don't use roads?  You don't take advantage of the electrical grid?  You aren't protected by the US army?  You won't receive social security?

/devilsadvocate

This. What your trying to do is one of the main reasons government is against Bitcoin. Pay your shit like the rest of us and be thankful your in a country like the United States.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
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