[ANN] New bitcoin development mailing list

[jgarzik]

Gavin created bitcoin-development mailing list at SourceForge, for more focused devel talk.

The forum is rapidly becoming unusable for 'serious work'.

[1714233472]

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[1714233472]

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[Cdecker]

Just a quick question: is this just for mainline client dev, or are we alternative developers allowed to ask questions too?

[jgarzik]

Just a quick question: is this just for mainline client dev, or are we alternative developers allowed to ask questions too?

You'd have to ask Gavin to be 100% sure, but I think that anybody working on software that deals with the bitcoin network should be welcome...

[Cdecker]

Great thanks, looking forward to the list.
The forum just became too crowded lately, and a lot of FUD around...

[jgarzik]

Great thanks, looking forward to the list.
The forum just became too crowded lately, and a lot of FUD around...

See my comments in this thread, also.

The forum just isn't suited for introducing new people to bitcoin, anymore.  It scares off more business-professionals than it attracts.

[davux]

Just a quick question: is this just for mainline client dev, or are we alternative developers allowed to ask questions too?

You'd have to ask Gavin to be 100% sure, but I think that anybody working on software that deals with the bitcoin network should be welcome...

I think they should, too. The list should be about discussing the protocol evolutions, not only C++ code for this particular client.

As many pointed out, it's problematic that there is only one client. As in any internet protocol, the protocol itself should be very well described, in a formal way, so that multiple implementations may exist. This is all for the health of Bitcoin. That's why I think the list should encourage generic protocol discussions, and alternative software development.

[Gavin Andresen]

Just a quick question: is this just for mainline client dev, or are we alternative developers allowed to ask questions too?

As long as the questions are core-bitcoin-related and not specific to your alternative client.

Good alternative client question:  "I'm writing an alternative client that doesn't store private keys at all (they are generated from the user's password). But I'll need a bitcoin protocol message that does XYZ to make it work; are other clients willing to support that new message?"

Bad alternative client question: "I'm coding my alternative client in Forth; what's the best GUI toolkit to use?"

[Cdecker]

Just a quick question: is this just for mainline client dev, or are we alternative developers allowed to ask questions too?

As long as the questions are core-bitcoin-related and not specific to your alternative client.

Good alternative client question:  "I'm writing an alternative client that doesn't store private keys at all (they are generated from the user's password). But I'll need a bitcoin protocol message that does XYZ to make it work; are other clients willing to support that new message?"

Bad alternative client question: "I'm coding my alternative client in Forth; what's the best GUI toolkit to use?"

Yup, I guess most questions will be about the protocol anyway, so there's no problem there.
Is the mailing list moderated? I think that would be usefull (unless we try to repeat the mess of the forum).

[ByteCoin]

Gavin created bitcoin-development mailing list at SourceForge, for more focused devel talk.

The forum is rapidly becoming unusable for 'serious work'.

The mailing list is rapidly becoming unusable for 'serious work' too.

On the day after the creation of the mailing list.....

13 Jul 08:55 Christian Decker "carries over a topic from the forum".
13 Jul 09:35 & 10:02 Jeff Garzik posts two replies that could have been aggregated into one post
13 Jul 10:03 Christian Decker top-posts to Jeff's entire first email!
13 Jul 10:54 Vladimir Marchenko top-posts to Jeff's entire second email!
13 Jul 11:49 Christian Decker top-posts to Vladimir's ENTIRE top-posting email!

Later on on the 13th there were more posts by Jeff, Vladimir and Gavin which were fine.

14 Jul 07:08 Dave Smith top-posts three lines to Mike Hearn's earlier email.
15 Jul 15:47 Christian Decker replies to Jeff Garzik's earlier email by quoting it ALL including Jeff's signature(!) and interspersing his comments.
16 Jul 17:13 Luke-Jr top-posts 4 lines to Gavin's earlier email.
16 Jul 18:24 phantomcircuit bottom-posts 4 lines to Jeff's earlier email.
17 Jul 08:12 Brendan Molloy top-posts a one-line question to John Smith's earlier email.
17 Jul 14:37 Douglas Huff top posts a one-line reply to Luke-Jr's earlier email including signature.
17 Jul 20:37 Luke-Jr bottom posts two lines to Gavin's earlier email.
19 Jul 21:54 Doug Huff posts some sort of non-plaintext HTML email.
19 Jul 22:36 Doug Huff posts an inconsequential two-line reply to Gavin's entire earlier email including signature!
20 Jul 02:34 Mark Visser top-posts to Pieter Wuille's entire earlier email including signature.
21 Jul 04:49 Doug Huff posts another HTML email.
22 Jul 13:24 Mike Hearn top-posts to Bobby Groff's entire earlier email including sig.

Fortunately later today there were some good emails by Bobby, Gavin and Mike.

ByteCoin

[Pieter Wuille]

Can this thread be made sticky?

[wujh]

Just a quick question: is this just for mainline client dev, or are we alternative developers allowed to ask questions too?

"I'm writing an alternative client that doesn't store private keys at all (they are generated from the user's password). But I'll need a bitcoin protocol message that does XYZ to make it work; are other clients willing to support that new message?"

This is fantastic.

[Leon]

Gavin created bitcoin-development mailing list at SourceForge, for more focused devel talk.

The forum is rapidly becoming unusable for 'serious work'.

Thanks!

[m3ta]

The mailing list is rapidly becoming unusable for 'serious work' too.

+1

When you have so many "mailing list top-posts quoting original signatures" (aka: lame) without explicit rules of "ML etiquette", that is inevitable. But, indeed, with lack of any planning, it happened fast.
Too fast.

[jl2035]

I wonder how there are still people that doesn't hate mailing lists.

Mailing lists are a piece of **** comparing them to forums or stackexchange sites...

[Pieter Wuille]

Mailing lists are a piece of **** comparing them to forums or stackexchange sites...

They serve different purpose. Stackexchange and forums are not good platforms for discussion.

[jl2035]

Mailing lists are a piece of **** comparing them to forums or stackexchange sites...

They serve different purpose. Stackexchange and forums are not good platforms for discussion.

so you're saying that mailing lists are... I think I understand that, but they are definitely not very kind for reading.

[BitcoinAshley]

Well, they are only not kind for reading when people blatantly disregard mailing list etiquette, as was shown in the examples above.

[rimbit]

Great thanks, looking forward to the list.
The forum just became too crowded lately, and a lot of FUD around...

See my comments in this thread, also.

The forum just isn't suited for introducing new people to bitcoin, anymore.  It scares off more business-professionals than it attracts.

That was a prophetic statement that is so true. Business people may well be put off by the slagging matches and so on. Im not sure if its an age group thing or just the mentality that creates that grinding effect, but its not really needed or warranted... Best left in the playground 

[progolferJP]

Yes. Best left on the playground. I don't understand why this goes on.

[Mooshire]

If you're going to use a mailing list, why not use BitMessage?