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Author Topic: Charles Hoskinson at Coinscrum on Blockchain 3.0  (Read 2777 times)
charleshoskinson
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July 16, 2016, 11:10:36 AM
 #1

https://youtu.be/6zP4Chk8g7A enjoy

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
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July 16, 2016, 11:34:40 AM
 #2

Why do you often write about yourself in third person? Need some more attention on that ego?

Ease up, lose some love handles and attention will come your way naturally! No worries
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July 16, 2016, 11:48:29 AM
 #3

It's called having a descriptive thread name. You should try it some time. And why exactly is my weight relevant to this conversation?

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July 16, 2016, 11:54:53 AM
 #4

It's called having a descriptive thread name. You should try it some time.
I don't think that's particularly descriptive.

And why exactly is my weight relevant to this conversation?
Excuse me! It's not relevant to this conversation. I've simply gone through the same. My life was much more sluggish when I was that size. It's good for the brain to purge a bit, especially in smart brain individuals like yourself. No offense meant by any means, it could be very important for a prosperous future!


PS    I have enjoyed your Udemy course on Bitcoin back in 2013. Thank you
Edit  Geez! it has almost 60K students now
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July 16, 2016, 12:49:47 PM
 #5

Versus my coinscrum? Who exactly is my. Use your thin brain for a moment

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July 16, 2016, 01:23:49 PM
 #6

Hello sir.  Do you always refer to yourself in the third person?  Grin

Anyway, good talk and please keep the content coming.  It's always a pleasure hearing from you.

Edit:  Oops.  Monero guy already mentioned it above and he wasn't trying to be funny.  I was.  Lol.

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July 16, 2016, 01:44:08 PM
 #7

hi charles,

good talk, except for the nonsense debate that took over most of the video towards the end.

I'm curious whats your take on NXT and the new platform they are releasing next year. There taking a different approach from other blockchains from what it looks like.

thanks.
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July 16, 2016, 04:03:18 PM
 #8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zP4Chk8g7A#t=213

Charles I disagree about putting explicit governance in the block chain. Instead I think governance should be made implausible and block chains should remain trustless and immutable. As for you concern about external data feeds, I have written something about that when I analyzed Paul Sztoric's blog.

Fork and do a proof-of-burn if you want to change the features. The market will vote with its money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zP4Chk8g7A#t=802

Giving the users the democratic power to vote is always a power vacuum so you will get no improvement if you add governance by democracy. Power-law distributions are a fact of nature. See my recent reply to someone who argued that power-law distributions can never be avoided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zP4Chk8g7A#t=1143

Decentralized, trustless is the most important use case, because it is the one thing we can change most efficiently through code.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zP4Chk8g7A#t=1440

I will soon attempt to demonstrate that your claim is incorrect about Paxos being orders-of-magnitude better in efficiency and throughput than proof-of-work. You are basing your assumption of the way Satoshi structure proof-of-work, which isn't the only way to structure the block chain. I note you did mention work being done on potentially improvement proof-of-work block chains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zP4Chk8g7A#t=1734

Charles frankly you were incorrect and the younger guy was correct that you are conflating inflation with transaction fees.

Both are you incorrect, the correct term is not 'inflation' but rather 'debasement' (or I guess 'monetary inflation' as Mark Lamb clarified). Inflation is due to changes in the value of money. Debasement is the process of dilution of the quantity of the money supply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zP4Chk8g7A#t=2700

Charles explains why miners should not have any power other than to implement (validate) the protocol.
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July 17, 2016, 01:35:51 AM
 #9

What the hell is a "Charles Hoskinson's" ?

..and why should i give a shit ?

FUD first & ask questions later™
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July 17, 2016, 03:46:30 AM
 #10

What the hell is a "Charles Hoskinson's" ?

..and why should i give a shit ?

What is worse , I know who he is.

And I still don't give a Shit Either. Cheesy

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/282m8m/charles_hoskinson_left_ethereum/
(Got Fired from Ethereum)

 Cool
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July 17, 2016, 04:10:09 AM
 #11

Charles, you may just need to lock the thread, because the angry, useless old men trolls who can't code any more will just come and pump up their useless wheel chair egos at your expense.

I had to lock my two threads because of that grandstanding Dunning-Kruger asshat:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1526067.msg15608752#msg15608752

Bitcointalk will soon become worthless to use if he is allowed to continue. I will cease posting in any thread he starts to troll. If it gets bad enough, I will quit BCT.

There has to be a better way to have open and censor-free discussion, but I don't know what it is.
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July 17, 2016, 05:36:29 AM
 #12

What the hell is a "Charles Hoskinson's" ?

..and why should i give a shit ?

What is worse , I know who he is.

And I still don't give a Shit Either. Cheesy

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/282m8m/charles_hoskinson_left_ethereum/
(Got Fired from Ethereum)

 Cool

Getting fired from Ethereum is a blessing in disguise. Anybody would hate to be in Vitalik's shoes right now. Things are not looking good at Ethereum, even the hard fork could encounter very serious problems for the users.

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July 17, 2016, 06:02:10 AM
 #13

Charles, you may just need to lock the thread, because the angry, useless old men trolls who can't code any more will just come and pump up their useless wheel chair egos at your expense.

I had to lock my two threads because of that grandstanding Dunning-Kruger asshat:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1526067.msg15608752#msg15608752

Bitcointalk will soon become worthless to use if he is allowed to continue. I will cease posting in any thread he starts to troll. If it gets bad enough, I will quit BCT.

There has to be a better way to have open and censor-free discussion, but I don't know what it is.

There is Free Speech or Censorship, what you want is Free Speech for yourself and no one else.
You're just PO, because you lost your argument with me so badly , you locked the threads to avoid any further shame.  Cheesy
Notice how my 1st post here did not even mention you.

Plus don't lie, you were even banned from BTCtalk and broke the ban,
I personally don't think your ego would let you even stay offline 2 weeks, after all your only real claim to fame ,
is the fact you have more posts that some countries combined on BTCtalk.

How is work going on that coin of yours (the non PoS /Non PoW coin), what was its name?
Oh Yeah , your Coin Name is Fart Bubble.

 Cool

FYI:
If you're that scarred of me, BTCtalk will let you create self moderated Topics to spread your Fart Bubble Coin Propaganda.
Just like Monero

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July 17, 2016, 06:14:13 AM
 #14

What the hell is a "Charles Hoskinson's" ?

..and why should i give a shit ?

What is worse , I know who he is.

And I still don't give a Shit Either. Cheesy

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/282m8m/charles_hoskinson_left_ethereum/
(Got Fired from Ethereum)

 Cool

Getting fired from Ethereum is a blessing in disguise. Anybody would hate to be in Vitalik's shoes right now. Things are not looking good at Ethereum, even the hard fork could encounter very serious problems for the users.

Ethereum was doomed to failure in time mainly because of them ignoring the ever increasing growth of their block chain.

@Charles,
My 1st comment in this forum was my version of humor , after arguing with the Asshat / iamnotback /Shelby for the past few days, I am a little less civil than normal.
Enjoy your Topic and Good Luck in your Future Endeavors.

 Cool

FYI:
One small piece of advice, change the name Coinscrum to something else, a quick speed read glance of it reads Coinscum , and I don't think you want that from a Public Relations Point of view.
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July 17, 2016, 06:47:31 AM
 #15

Charles, you may just need to lock the thread, because the angry, useless old men trolls who can't code any more will just come and pump up their useless wheel chair egos at your expense.

I had to lock my two threads because of that grandstanding Dunning-Kruger asshat:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1526067.msg15608752#msg15608752

Bitcointalk will soon become worthless to use if he is allowed to continue. I will cease posting in any thread he starts to troll. If it gets bad enough, I will quit BCT.

There has to be a better way to have open and censor-free discussion, but I don't know what it is.

You ALREADY did leave quitting you said.  Cheesy
..and came back saying they banned you for talking about Ethereum.

Further more you lock what ever you want..
I myself last commented on 1 of your topics 1 time last week..
TODAY i see you on a locking spree.. drama much ? again ?
No wonder you were banned.
How long will this junior account last ?
Mine is still here  Cool

You keep threatening to leave ..then leave.

@kiklo
Thanks that is funny.
I have no idea who this fucking guy is or why i should care about his grandiose titled topics here.
I have been here talking for 3 years and all of a sudden this guy pops up.. NOW !
And i am suppose to get down and slurp his cock or what ?

I don't know who he is but i can see his ATTITUDE in the topic titles here.
He keeps making topics like this. (empty topic with his name plus a link)
And who is getting insulted by Shelby about Attitude ?

Hey Shelby at least i can code and have proven it.. how is your vaporware coin that will beat everyone & everything doing ?
Still a work in progress huh ?
Too bad you didn't ICO it ..you'd be rich by now.

People know who i am around here because i have been talking for YEARS.
And even i would not create topics such as this topic title here.. EXPECTING us to know who he is.
Which i don't.

Shelby if you want to post more pic's of your balls send them to Charles in private please..
You two can go get a motel room and have at 'er !

FUD first & ask questions later™
charleshoskinson
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July 17, 2016, 06:51:07 AM
 #16

Lol, you know the warm welcoming attitude of this forum is why I post here. Thanks guys for all the kind words.

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
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July 17, 2016, 09:07:45 AM
 #17

Getting fired from Ethereum is a blessing in disguise.

I'll quote you instead of the troll who insists on spamming every thread with blue text (which in Internet etiquette is the same as shouting with ALL CAPS).

He wasn't fired. Per his own explanation, an approximate summary is he founded the company and when his ideas for the funding of the development and governance were at odds with Vitalik at al, they mutually decided he would resign in the best interests of not having ongoing stifling dissension or that Charles could not allow himself to be a party to the lack of governance. Reading between the lines, I am under the impression that the boys wanted all the control and they didn't want their budget to be under strict scrutiny by a governance model similar to a board of directors.

Charles is a very good speaker, conceptualizer, and organizer. His IOHK attempting to do important research and development in block chain technology and models. That he was involved in the early stages of Bitshares and Ethereum is not objectively a correlation to what those projects became after he was gone. And those projects have not been entirely a waste (and it is not 100% certain/objective they've failed), as some important knowledge has come out of them.

To those who have no respect at all for what Charles is doing, then I think you have no respect at all for a meritocracy (and you're probably a jealous asshat, lol). Although some might feel jaded that he gained some wealth on the residual tokens he may have held from those two major projects, it is not clear to me that Charles was the one driving the stages of those projects (even in a derivative sense) that some might disagree with.

I was actually quite impressed with this recent video because Charles explained he is very rational on the issue of trustless decentralization. The only issue I had with the video is him talking down to Mark Lamb, calling him 'son' when it was clear that Mark had a strong point that at least deserved mutual respect while being debated. Perhaps Charles had a counter point also, but I think the debate needed more calm interaction to get more clarity. At one point Charles did offer Mark the choice that seemed to fit Mark's model, but somehow both of them veered away from the opportunity to form an agreement and spiraled off into a shouting match. That was unfortunate but these misunderstandings can happen in the heat of the moment. Nobody is immune.

I was also impressed with his use of the vocabulary word 'extemporaneous'. Caused me to remember my father the attorney. Charles appears to have a sharp mind and cross-discipline (polymathy) ability. I can't make any judgement yet about his skills in actual coding or the coordination thereof, because I don't have enough interaction and data.

That Charles has he claims amassed and is coordinating a development group of 27 experts, is a potentially very valuable resource for block chain research and development. I say 'potentially' because I have very limited interaction with his company so far (only the messages on this forum and including some with kushti), so I can't really form any judgement one way or the other.

No one is perfectly skilled in all areas, and most certainly including myself. We learn how to complement each others' skill set. Perhaps the most valuable trait, is the ability to learn from our mistakes and admit them to ourself. It is hard to do, but it the most productive. I am thinking specifically of some mistakes I've made in past months on these forums in terms of forming rash judgements out of frustration. It is much easier to have an open constructive mind when not being continually frustrated by the medium and/or circumstances. I bet even a troll could benefit from this, if he/she hasn't shattered his/her mirror. Mutually respectful, cordial, and not disingenuous disagreement/debate can be a constructive activity.

disingenuous
 adjective dis·in·gen·u·ous \ˌdis-in-ˈjen-yə-wəs, -yü-əs-\
: not truly honest or sincere : giving the false appearance of being honest or sincere

In the context of a technical debate, disingenuous means to not be sincere in acknowledging the valid technical points of the other side. It means using trolling tactics to pretend the other side hasn't made any valid point whatsoever. It often is objectively visible when the troll is SHOUTING that all the experts are wrong and unable to make an absolutely convincing argument to justify such an unlikely slamdunk. Typically someone who knows confidently that all the experts are wrong, will not feel a need to shout and will be quite smug and content with simply stating their case calmly once (and let time do the job of teaching). It can also be a side-effect of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome.


P.S. when professional athletes become too old to compete and become a liability to their team, they retire. When old programmers become too old to code, perhaps we should also retire and not hang on as frustrated trolls. Linus said, "talk is cheap, show me the code". In this context, I am thinking that if one has stopped coding, they too far removed from the details. Being productive producing code has a way of satiating one's sense of accomplishment, eliminating the need to say something when one really had nothing to say of value.
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July 17, 2016, 10:02:36 AM
 #18

Didn't watch the video yet, but since proof of stake is a permissioned ledger and not a valid decentralized network, there is technically no "blockchain 2.0" yet, let alone a 3.0.  There was my idea for the next evolution forward for decentralized coins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1550027.0

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iamnotback
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July 17, 2016, 10:05:34 AM
 #19

Didn't watch the video yet, but since proof of stake is a permissioned ledger and not a valid decentralized network, there is technically no "blockchain 2.0" yet, let alone a 3.0.  There was my idea for the next evolution forward for decentralized coins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1550027.0

In the video, Charles explains the range of use case tradeoffs, which may justify in some cases the deployment of proof-of-stake. I don't think I can refute him unequivocally. I think this is an ongoing R&D issue. Charles did absolutely agree that some use cases require a trustless, decentralized model (even though yet afaik no one has shown how to achieve one with block chain consensus long-term due to the power-law distribution in nature ... but I am hoping to show an innovation in that area).

This is a high level academic discussion. I applaud it and wish we all could lift ourselves up to such a level.
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July 17, 2016, 10:26:43 AM
 #20

This is a high level academic discussion. I applaud it and wish we all could lift ourselves up to such a level.

I'm starting to become more Smooth-level bearish on the ability to create beneficial decentralized coins for a few reasons:

1)  The subject I was talking about where any succesful cryptocurrency will have standardized alias systems, and the government will create their own alias system scaffolding and force everyone to route transactions through it, making whatever you do in the base layer pointless because you will end up with governmentcoin no matter what.

2)  The re-realization about what Ted Kaczynski said about technology being a net negative for freedom and how that inevitably applies to cryptocurrency (see above example)

3)  The fact that any open loop system will always be bottlenecked by the centralized fabs such as TSMC, Global Foundries, Samsung, and Intel.  This means no matter what you do, you will always have the equivalent of four "pools".

4)  The problem that the inherent value of the blockchain is entirely derived from the ability of everyone who uses the currency being able to mine it, because the main purpose of PoW is to create a decentralized exchange.  You remove the decentralized exchange aspect and you have nothing.  This is why things like defeating ASICs is important, yet maybe impossible.

5)  The ability for people to do things like mine silver will always be far more accesible in the end game than any cryptocurrency, meaning the superior altcoin everyone is trying to create already exists in the real world and it's called silver.

6)  As I stated before, the best example of an optimal currency that isn't just an instrument of debt or IOU would be "energon" from the transformers cartoon - blocks of energy that can be redeemed at full face value at any time regardless of externalities.  This is why in lieu of such a system, the world converged on the oil dollar.  The ideal currency will always have metastability, the ability to do work.  Without such high metastibility, the world would converge on just blocks of scarce matter, since matter is also energy, and that's where you get gold and silver.

7)  Once you read the above statement, the fact that we are dumping energy into cryptocurrency instead of extracing it to do work really makes you scratch your head.

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