Bitcoin Forum
December 13, 2017, 07:53:08 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin vs Gold vs Cash  (Read 2788 times)
aes1
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 66



View Profile
March 21, 2013, 12:36:08 AM
 #1

So, gold and cash have some good and some bad properties.

Gold:

good - only a limited amount exists, hence protection from inflation
good - has intrinsic value (at least to some degree)
bad - difficult to transfer, divide, verify that it's authentic, hence higher transaction costs

Cash:

good - you can give it to anyone anonymously. It just works. i.e. the definition of "currency". Near-zero transaction costs
bad - loses its value due to inflation

In a sense, bitcoin is the ultimate combination of the good parts of gold and cash. It has the intrinsic value of gold (nobody can create more of it, so the value is permanent) combined with the intrinsic value of cash (near-instantly transferable to whomever in any amount you wish - as an extra bonus, it works worldwide!).

Of course, there is the risk that bitcoin is worth nothing tomorrow. But how big is it?

I'm going with Twain: "Buy land. They're not making it anymore." At least by the year 2140... (Imagine if you got in when they were making the first patches of land)
1513151588
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513151588

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513151588
Reply with quote  #2

1513151588
Report to moderator
1513151588
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513151588

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513151588
Reply with quote  #2

1513151588
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513151588
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513151588

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513151588
Reply with quote  #2

1513151588
Report to moderator
bubblesort
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84


Lex Ad Impios


View Profile
March 21, 2013, 01:13:59 AM
 #2

Speaking of anonymity, I hate it when Radio Shack doesn't want to deal with me anonymously.  I'm waving cash at them and they don't want it.  Last time I was there they literally refused my cash because I wouldn't give them my cell phone number.  No skin off my back, I just ordered the parts I needed on line at a fraction of the price at Radio Shack.  I just had to wait a few days for shipping.

As far as gold goes:  Gold is fiat.  It has low use value, it's value comes from people telling you it has value, same as USD or Euros or Pesos.

I agree with you on the land thing.

Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092



View Profile
March 21, 2013, 01:27:23 AM
 #3

So, gold and cash have some good and some bad properties.

Gold:

good - only a limited amount exists, hence protection from inflation
good - has intrinsic value (at least to some degree)
bad - difficult to transfer, divide, verify that it's authentic, hence higher transaction costs

Cash:

good - you can give it to anyone anonymously. It just works. i.e. the definition of "currency". Near-zero transaction costs
bad - loses its value due to inflation

In a sense, bitcoin is the ultimate combination of the good parts of gold and cash. It has the intrinsic value of gold (nobody can create more of it, so the value is permanent) combined with the intrinsic value of cash (near-instantly transferable to whomever in any amount you wish - as an extra bonus, it works worldwide!).

Of course, there is the risk that bitcoin is worth nothing tomorrow. But how big is it?

I'm going with Twain: "Buy land. They're not making it anymore." At least by the year 2140... (Imagine if you got in when they were making the first patches of land)


On that note, wasn't Japan trying to build man-made islands?  Maybe it's not too late to be a land owner Grin

Richy_T
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330


1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k


View Profile
March 21, 2013, 03:44:30 PM
 #4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_%28archipelago%29

Get digging Cheesy

1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
Melbustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638



View Profile
March 21, 2013, 07:13:23 PM
 #5

So, gold and cash have some good and some bad properties.

Gold:

good - only a limited amount exists, hence protection from inflation
good - has intrinsic value (at least to some degree)
bad - difficult to transfer, divide, verify that it's authentic, hence higher transaction costs

Cash:

good - you can give it to anyone anonymously. It just works. i.e. the definition of "currency". Near-zero transaction costs
bad - loses its value due to inflation

In a sense, bitcoin is the ultimate combination of the good parts of gold and cash. It has the intrinsic value of gold (nobody can create more of it, so the value is permanent) combined with the intrinsic value of cash (near-instantly transferable to whomever in any amount you wish - as an extra bonus, it works worldwide!).

Of course, there is the risk that bitcoin is worth nothing tomorrow. But how big is it?

I'm going with Twain: "Buy land. They're not making it anymore." At least by the year 2140... (Imagine if you got in when they were making the first patches of land)



You guys might want to check out Cypherdoc's thread (last page of it).


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Cryptoasset rankings and metrics for investors: http://onchainfx.com
jago25_98
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 892


Crypto Geek


View Profile
March 31, 2013, 01:18:03 AM
 #6

What about the religious point of view - that growth is not a good thing. That gold is good because it is stable and does not grow like Bitcoin?

Just sayin' Wink

Crypto supporter!
Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092



View Profile
March 31, 2013, 01:20:59 AM
 #7

What about the religious point of view - that growth is not a good thing. That gold is good because it is stable and does not grow like Bitcoin?

Just sayin' Wink

The Church of Satoshi would like to have a word with you.

notme
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848


View Profile
March 31, 2013, 06:47:02 AM
 #8

What about the religious point of view - that growth is not a good thing. That gold is good because it is stable and does not grow like Bitcoin?

Just sayin' Wink

Gold is "stable" because it is old.  Bitcoin grows because it is still very new.  I put stable in quotes because compared to most assets, gold is very volatile.  If bitcoin makes it to the size of the gold market, it should be much more stable.

Just sayin' Wink

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
iamnotback
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336



View Profile
October 30, 2016, 07:43:11 AM
 #9

I think they are they are happy if you overpay $2 over spot for the oversupply of silver in the world. There is all the silver you want in 1000oz bars. How much do you need? I'll tell you were you can buy it.

Don't buy 18,000 oz of silver like I did. You'll end up bankrupt like I am.

If your goal is to actually make money, you would be buying before there's a physical shortage in 1000oz bars, not after (be first, be smart, or cheat).  I also hear even the big players are buying 1 oz silver eagles and NOT huge bars.

The problem is that physical silver coin is not ever going to be used as currency ever again, no matter what happens. Period.

1. We are in a digital age and no one is going backwards, no matter what happens. Period.

2. When global collapses ensues such that you think you might be able to use metal coinage, what actually happens is as follows.

  • As Fernando “FerFAL” Aguirre points out, only the currency that can be exchanged external to the crisis area has value. People are not bartering silver dimes, rather if you had German DMarks in Bosnia or USA dollars in Argentina, then these were accepted and liquid. Gold coins were much more difficult to liquidate because there is a funnel of few dealers that can't actually exchange them for the externally liquid currencies of USA dollars.
  • As Dmitry Orlov points out, everyone's priority is on food, security, and transportation. Direct trade of these is more valued than some metal which can't be traded for these needs, because these metals are not liquid.
  • Armstrong has also explained that gold and silver only have a value for as long as the collapse is not total and there is still an external market. During Dark Ages such as in Japan or fall of Rome, the gold and silver become entirely illiquid (is buried in the ground) and only food, guns, fuel, and alcohol+cigarettes become money.

See the link below to the description of the war in Bosnia:

You apparently lack appreciation of the significance of both marginal prices in economics, and also the non-linear effects of chaos.

1. With marginal prices in Economics 101, the price you pay is set by the most expensive producer. It is not a useful model to think of a 3/4 reduction in food production causing causing a 400% increase in prices, because when you take away 3/4 of the lowest cost producers, the new supply is highest cost producers. So as was the case in Bosnia, where the cost of food was driven by the highest cost producers, a tin can of Spam was $30 to $40, i.e. roughly a 1000% increase. You need to visualize this as disruption of economies-of-scale not only in farming, but also in terms of distribution economies-of-scale, security of farming and distribution economies-of-scale.

2. When the population has become dependent on high economies-of-scale in farming, distribution, credit, government, corporations, etc., and that is taken away by mother nature and or widespread war/pestilence (-4.5 F average temperature reduction in cold climates, with great aggregate effects such as flooding, droughts, etc), then the F.U.B.A.R. human effects are quite non-linear as described in that link bigtimespaghetti provided on surviving the war in Bosnia (which I had read long ago when it was first published). This can further exacerbate application of solutions and thus drive prices another 1000% higher.

Adaptation was essential as explained below, but the following adaptation can't be done if you are surrounded by humans who are suddenly thrust into a situation for which they are not prepared because they will hunt you instead of adapting:





Makes sense because the purpose of a currency is standardized, interchangeable units of measure, and bullion bars do not fit the bill.  They're only useful for industrial applications, which is why many places in Europe charge VAT on bars and not coins.  Also easier to avoid counterfeits with coins than bullion bars.

Actually doesn't make sense at all. You want to be buying bullion that can be liquidated if the collapse doesn't go extreme. Otherwise you don't want to be buying precious metals at all.

This is why crypto-currency is going to kick ass.

I would have maybe some 1 oz gold coins for a desperation situation, knowing full well that anyone that takes them in payment is only going to give me 1/10 their "official value" (or original value) in an apocalyptic collapse scenario.

Must better I have dollar bills and even better some crypto-currency, especially some that I am able to use anonymously if needed.

I am not betting on the apocalyptic collapse scenario, because if we go there then what I really need is to be self-sufficient. No amount of monetary currency savings can help me. I would need guns, fellow community, and ability to survive off the land.

Please stop talking nonsense about silver coins as an investment. It is stupidest thing I have ever once thought was true until I woke up from being a dumb ass tinfoil hat.

As for the future, both Hillary and Trump have talked about massive, expensive, public works projects, plus Trump has even talked about defaulting on the debt.  Tons of govt spending that won't be paid for is pretty bullish on anything that's not connected to USD debt markets.  We also reached peak oil in 2004, so extraction of anything from the earth is inherently more expensive after that date.  The markets have just not caught up to the fact yet since markets are manipulated and distorted.

So buy gold bullion.

We also reached peak oil in 2004, so extraction of anything from the earth is inherently more expensive after that date.  The markets have just not caught up to the fact yet since markets are manipulated and distorted.

Peak oil is propaganda lie that Rothschilds has been funding same as the Man-made global warming lie.

It is not true. You'd only need the flow of oil out of the ground of a medium size river, to supply the entire world's support of oil. The USA has risen to the #1 global producer over the past decade due to the discovery of fracking.

Besides we are moving away from carbon-based fuels and generation via nuclear energy, solar, hydroelectric, and geothermal. New technological breakthroughs in these areas plus battery technology will obsolete carbon fuels. Also we are moving towards living in high-density cities with mass transportation instead of one human per vehicle. Our vehicles can also improve efficiency by 100 - 200%. The technological innovation whirlwind is underway.

There is no strong case for silver. It is more volatile than gold, less liquid, and there is no supply crunch problem. The precious metal promoters are fooling you with lies and propaganda.

In the end though, you will always have tyranny without metals circulated as currency in native form.  A "gold backed" currency is useless, they have to be circulated.  Bitcoin does not solve any of those issues because Bitcoin is inherently a technoracy, which is what I told Theymos in the following thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1654457.msg16663846#msg16663846

There is no solution to the inviolable (insoluble) tyranny of the power-law distribution1 and the Iron Law of Political Economics power vacuum.

Sorry just accept the fate of the human race.

That unfortunate fact won't make gold and silver viable again, just because Bitcoin isn't a panacea. There will never be a panacea. Give up.

1 A. Dragulescu and V. Yakovenko. Exponential and power-law probability distributions of wealth and income in the United Kingdom and the United States.
funkenstein
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 979


Khazad ai-menu!


View Profile WWW
November 02, 2016, 03:08:23 PM
 #10

Iamnotback makes some very good points about currency above, but then suddenly chooses to say


Peak oil is propaganda lie that Rothschilds has been funding same as the Man-made global warming lie.

It is not true. You'd only need the flow of oil out of the ground of a medium size river, to supply the entire world's support of oil. The USA has risen to the #1 global producer over the past decade due to the discovery of fracking.


i.e.
"oh and by the way, please ignore everything i say".

Why?  Just make your points without also saying "and the sun rises in the west".  

"Give me control over a coin's checkpoints and I care not who mines its blocks."
http://vtscc.org  http://woodcoin.info
danherbias07
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 826


Any store can buy, sell, and accept Crypto


View Profile
November 02, 2016, 03:57:14 PM
 #11

So, gold and cash have some good and some bad properties.

Gold:

good - only a limited amount exists, hence protection from inflation
good - has intrinsic value (at least to some degree)
bad - difficult to transfer, divide, verify that it's authentic, hence higher transaction costs

Cash:

good - you can give it to anyone anonymously. It just works. i.e. the definition of "currency". Near-zero transaction costs
bad - loses its value due to inflation

In a sense, bitcoin is the ultimate combination of the good parts of gold and cash. It has the intrinsic value of gold (nobody can create more of it, so the value is permanent) combined with the intrinsic value of cash (near-instantly transferable to whomever in any amount you wish - as an extra bonus, it works worldwide!).

Of course, there is the risk that bitcoin is worth nothing tomorrow. But how big is it?

I'm going with Twain: "Buy land. They're not making it anymore." At least by the year 2140... (Imagine if you got in when they were making the first patches of land)


The bad side of bitcoin is it is limited also. But there is good in it if you are the first owners. Imagine populating the bitcoin community with each one having a good amount of bitcoin and just stacking it up. Where would other ones who want it will get some?
It is like the same with gold mined and being sold. We wait for the miners to sell theirs.

I will agree with the land buying first. But it is just too difficult to get some because of its price.

███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▀███▀████
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▄▀▄█████
███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▀▄█▄▀████

███▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀████████▀▀▀██▀▀▀███████████▀▀▀██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████████▀▀▀█████
███          ▀███   ████████   ██    ▀█████████   ██           ▀████   █████
███   █████▄   ██   ████████   ██      ▀███████   ██   ██████▄   ███   █████
███   ██████   ██   ████████   ██   █▄   ▀█████   ██   ████████   ██   █████
███   █████▀   ██   ████████   ██   ███▄   ▀███   ██   ████████   ██   █████
███          ▄███   ▀██████▀   ██   █████▄   ▀█   ██   ███████▀   ██   █████
███   ▄▄▄▄▄███████   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ███   ███████▄      ██   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▄███   █████
███   █████████████▄        ▄████   █████████▄    ██        ▄▄▄█████   █████
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
.Any Store Can Buy, Sell and Accept Cryptocurrency.██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
[[[ Whitepaper    Twitter     Facebook]]]
[[[  Telegram      Medium     Youtube ]]]
Aamir1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560


View Profile
November 02, 2016, 04:11:34 PM
 #12

Though gold is something that cannot be produced like money or fiat but it is not really limited like bitcoin, because there is still a lot of gold inside the land that has to be taken out later on, so the amount of gold can grow with the time but bitcoins would remain the same as it has a limited amount.

bitdumper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266

One world One currency, Bitcoin.


View Profile
November 02, 2016, 05:47:45 PM
 #13

if i have to say what is bitcoin according to this topic then i will simply say cash+gold=bitcoin(bit-digital coin-money). the main diffremce on these three mode of payments are amount of total coin like in bitcoin there are only 21million bitcoin but in case of gold its unknown but still its fixed.but money can be generated more and more

crairezx20
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868



View Profile WWW
November 02, 2016, 05:56:28 PM
 #14

I think you don't need to compare cash since its already use by people fiat or money or cash. gold maybe we can compare it in bitcoins .. but its more good to invest in bitcoin because i already experience of gaining profit just to hold because of fast price increase unlike gold that it takes a long time before you can see your profit. .

    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   
   ████████████████████████████████  
     ▀██████████████████████████▀    
        ▀████████████████████▀       
          ████████████████▀         
            █████████████           
            ▀████████████▀           
             ▀██████████▀            
              ██████████             
               ████████              
               ▀██████▀              
                ██████               
                  ▀                  
.
.trade.io.
██████
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
██████

▄██████████████████▄
███       ▀███████
███       █████████
███       █████████
███       █████████
███              ██
███   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   ███
███   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   ███
███              ███
███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███
██████████████████▀

▄██████████████████▄
███████████▀ ███████
█████████▀   ███████
███████▀     ██▀ ███
███ ▀▀       █▄▄████
███          █▀▀▀▀██
███ ▄▄       ███████
██████▄     █▄ ▀███
█████████▄   ███▄███
███████████▄ ███████
▀██████████████████▀

▄██████████████████▄
████████████████████
███████████████▀▀ ██
█████████▀▀     ███
████▀▀     ▄█▀   ███
███▄    ▄██      ███
█████████▀      ▄██
█████████▄     ████
█████████████▄ ▄████
████████████████████
▀██████████████████▀
██████
██████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
██████
██████
.
.Join the Trading Revolution.
John999
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218



View Profile
November 02, 2016, 06:02:02 PM
 #15

So, gold and cash have some good and some bad properties.

Gold:

good - only a limited amount exists, hence protection from inflation
good - has intrinsic value (at least to some degree)
bad - difficult to transfer, divide, verify that it's authentic, hence higher transaction costs

Cash:

good - you can give it to anyone anonymously. It just works. i.e. the definition of "currency". Near-zero transaction costs
bad - loses its value due to inflation

In a sense, bitcoin is the ultimate combination of the good parts of gold and cash. It has the intrinsic value of gold (nobody can create more of it, so the value is permanent) combined with the intrinsic value of cash (near-instantly transferable to whomever in any amount you wish - as an extra bonus, it works worldwide!).

Of course, there is the risk that bitcoin is worth nothing tomorrow. But how big is it?

I'm going with Twain: "Buy land. They're not making it anymore." At least by the year 2140... (Imagine if you got in when they were making the first patches of land)


Gold and cash are not hackable. And in today's world it's a big plus.
funkenstein
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 979


Khazad ai-menu!


View Profile WWW
November 02, 2016, 06:09:38 PM
 #16


Gold and cash are not hackable. And in today's world it's a big plus.


That depends on what you mean by hackable.  There are those that print out billions of new dollars worth of cash at almost no cost.  You could consider that a hack. 

"Give me control over a coin's checkpoints and I care not who mines its blocks."
http://vtscc.org  http://woodcoin.info
boybugs18
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
November 02, 2016, 06:18:37 PM
 #17

If ever we will have a war again , gold will surely replace cash for trading items you want because cash is only a paper that some country putting some value to it but gold has it value even on early days .

MASKNETWORK.
    Decentralized social trading network that rewards users  |   JOIN ICO
    Assets | Binary Options | Leveraged Markets - Trade and get paid !!!
John999
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218



View Profile
November 02, 2016, 06:21:50 PM
 #18


Gold and cash are not hackable. And in today's world it's a big plus.


That depends on what you mean by hackable.  There are those that print out billions of new dollars worth of cash at almost no cost.  You could consider that a hack. 

Yes you could. But so far the velocity of money and the inflation (even if the last one is starting to show up) are still pretty low. So the value of your cash is still relatively constant.
babo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1274


http://archive.is/W6mtE https://www.bitrated.com/b


View Profile
November 02, 2016, 06:24:56 PM
 #19

So, gold and cash have some good and some bad properties.

Gold:

good - only a limited amount exists, hence protection from inflation
good - has intrinsic value (at least to some degree)
bad - difficult to transfer, divide, verify that it's authentic, hence higher transaction costs

Cash:

good - you can give it to anyone anonymously. It just works. i.e. the definition of "currency". Near-zero transaction costs
bad - loses its value due to inflation

In a sense, bitcoin is the ultimate combination of the good parts of gold and cash. It has the intrinsic value of gold (nobody can create more of it, so the value is permanent) combined with the intrinsic value of cash (near-instantly transferable to whomever in any amount you wish - as an extra bonus, it works worldwide!).

Of course, there is the risk that bitcoin is worth nothing tomorrow. But how big is it?

I'm going with Twain: "Buy land. They're not making it anymore." At least by the year 2140... (Imagine if you got in when they were making the first patches of land)


But gold is best commodities anyway.. no one is good like gold

- diamonds isnt good (and value is bigger)
- bitcoin isnt good (because is volatile)
- other materials, silver, copper, is low ...

another one comparable is platinum, but gold is gold

       ▀
   ▄▄▄   ▄▀
   ███ ▄▄▄▄  ██
       ████
    ▄  ▀▀▀▀
▄▄
      ██    ▀▀
██▄█▄▄▄████████
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀███▀▀▀
██████████████████
████▄▀▄▀▄▀███▀▀▀▀▀
████▄▀▄▀▄▀███ ▀
████▄▀▄▀▄▀████████
▀█████████████████
]
,CoinPayments,
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
Bitcoinsummoner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658

I'm in vacation


View Profile
November 02, 2016, 06:33:40 PM
 #20


Gold and cash are not hackable. And in today's world it's a big plus.


That depends on what you mean by hackable.  There are those that print out billions of new dollars worth of cash at almost no cost.  You could consider that a hack. 
I think cash can be still hackable because some atm cash can be hackable.. bruteforcing or they are using a atm fake card just like a heard news that there is a device from thieves using this atm card they can be fake from their victim and cashout the money..
Gold yeah its not hackable and i think bitcoin too is not hackable .. just make sure that we can increase our security..

..Decision from segwit2x is not Final..
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!