[POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag?

[Zephir]

This whole thing is crazy.

It´s the same like I would sell Quantum computers on pre-order now.

Just 1,000,000$, order now!!!   

You will get em, but the question is when.

Come on.
Everbody who runs a business like this, will be called a fraudster, scammer, etc, why not now?!?

[1715037838]

1715037838

[Bicknellski]

Are 800 people wrong?

[Bicknellski]

Monarch sounds like dominate or domination IMHO and this could lead to another economic(crypto) slavery. Cash on hold for months is cash stolen in front. And they are a little bit kind to return if they want to- or give you a product. 600Gh/s is not 600Gh/s when it's delivered next year. It's only 1Ghz. Now hand your hard earned money to them and see what happens.

No, I assure you, 600 GH/s will always be 600 GH/s.  That's kind of the definition of it...

Unless your estimates for you miner are wrong and you can only get 400 Gh/s or less let us say... right? Especially for vaporware that basically has no Electrical Engineer currently working on it.

[motoglen]

Yes!

[bcp19]

At time of writing, 77.3% of a sample size of a thousand think they should get the tag. Where is it?

It's tucked away nicely under the rather large pile of money BFL has thrown at this forum.

I doubt BFL has shipped 23% of their total orderbook (especially since 50% if it seems to have happened from Mar/Apr 2013).  This means there are still people who have not received a unit that don't think they are a scam.  If public opinion mattered, Casey Anthony would be in Jail, Michael Jackson would have been in jail and probably never died.  Since there is a burden of proof here, it really doesn't matter what the public THINKS.

So the fact that BFL is breaking FTC regulations is irrelevant?

BFL is illegally withholding customer money by not honouring order cancellation when the customer asks for it.  That alone is worth a scammer tag (if it still existed).

That is a legal question and we do not have a legal answer at this time.

[balanghai]

Any progress on this thing? Or any legal action? That makes the "pre-orders" on a cancelled mode. Better yet loose your hard earned coins/cash

[Flying Hellfish]

At time of writing, 77.3% of a sample size of a thousand think they should get the tag. Where is it?

It's tucked away nicely under the rather large pile of money BFL has thrown at this forum.

I doubt BFL has shipped 23% of their total orderbook (especially since 50% if it seems to have happened from Mar/Apr 2013).  This means there are still people who have not received a unit that don't think they are a scam.  If public opinion mattered, Casey Anthony would be in Jail, Michael Jackson would have been in jail and probably never died.  Since there is a burden of proof here, it really doesn't matter what the public THINKS.

So the fact that BFL is breaking FTC regulations is irrelevant?

BFL is illegally withholding customer money by not honouring order cancellation when the customer asks for it.  That alone is worth a scammer tag (if it still existed).

That is a legal question and we do not have a legal answer at this time.

Hogwash, this is a forum not a court of law.  Let me ask you this, was bASIC (cablepair) scam tag tested in a court of law (ie was it a legal question with a  legal answer), how bout MNW was that also a legal question tested with a legal answer.  How about all the other scammer tags that had legal questions that did not have an official legal answer...

Hell by your theory until recently when the SEC formally charged pirate he had a legal question with no legal answer so he should not have had a scammer tag...

[bcp19]

At time of writing, 77.3% of a sample size of a thousand think they should get the tag. Where is it?

It's tucked away nicely under the rather large pile of money BFL has thrown at this forum.

I doubt BFL has shipped 23% of their total orderbook (especially since 50% if it seems to have happened from Mar/Apr 2013).  This means there are still people who have not received a unit that don't think they are a scam.  If public opinion mattered, Casey Anthony would be in Jail, Michael Jackson would have been in jail and probably never died.  Since there is a burden of proof here, it really doesn't matter what the public THINKS.

So the fact that BFL is breaking FTC regulations is irrelevant?

BFL is illegally withholding customer money by not honouring order cancellation when the customer asks for it.  That alone is worth a scammer tag (if it still existed).

That is a legal question and we do not have a legal answer at this time.

Hogwash, this is a forum not a court of law.  Let me ask you this, was bASIC (cablepair) scam tag tested in a court of law (ie was it a legal question with a  legal answer), how bout MNW was that also a legal question tested with a legal answer.  How about all the other scammer tags that had legal questions that did not have an official legal answer...

Hell by your theory until recently when the SEC formally charged pirate he had a legal question with no legal answer so he should not have had a scammer tag...

You are also comparing a person against a business.  You can point to monies given to bASIC and nothing received back.  Since BFL is shipping, albeit slow, the same cannot be said.  The 'scam' with bASIC is easily pointed to and proven, the FTC complaints filed have not run their course and are technically still unproven.  Up until BFL is shut down by the FTC or they close their doors and walk with the money, it's still speculation.  Just because 800 people believe something to be true doesn't make it so.  The 1000 votes you have on this subject is a small fraction of the entirety of BTC miners, yet you are willing to let that small fraction decide the outcome.  That's be like the US drawing a single county from a single state and letting them decide the next President.

bASIC ran his most if not all of his 'operation' here, thus it is fair for the voices here to decide.  BFL advertises here and elsewhere and has their own site.  Why should this little corner have the ultimate say?

[becoin]

Since BFL is shipping, albeit slow, the same cannot be said.

Are you sure they are shipping? How many mining rigs have they shipped last week?

[Flying Hellfish]

At time of writing, 77.3% of a sample size of a thousand think they should get the tag. Where is it?

It's tucked away nicely under the rather large pile of money BFL has thrown at this forum.

I doubt BFL has shipped 23% of their total orderbook (especially since 50% if it seems to have happened from Mar/Apr 2013).  This means there are still people who have not received a unit that don't think they are a scam.  If public opinion mattered, Casey Anthony would be in Jail, Michael Jackson would have been in jail and probably never died.  Since there is a burden of proof here, it really doesn't matter what the public THINKS.

So the fact that BFL is breaking FTC regulations is irrelevant?

BFL is illegally withholding customer money by not honouring order cancellation when the customer asks for it.  That alone is worth a scammer tag (if it still existed).

That is a legal question and we do not have a legal answer at this time.

Hogwash, this is a forum not a court of law.  Let me ask you this, was bASIC (cablepair) scam tag tested in a court of law (ie was it a legal question with a  legal answer), how bout MNW was that also a legal question tested with a legal answer.  How about all the other scammer tags that had legal questions that did not have an official legal answer...

Hell by your theory until recently when the SEC formally charged pirate he had a legal question with no legal answer so he should not have had a scammer tag...

You are also comparing a person against a business

bASIC was a company, Pirate also had a company

You can point to monies given to bASIC and nothing received back.

Really? the last thread I saw had all (or maybe 1 or two not) people refunded IN WHOLE.  If there were people not refunded by him please point them out.

Just because 800 people believe something to be true doesn't make it so.  The 1000 votes you have on this subject is a small fraction of the entirety of BTC miners, yet you are willing to let that small fraction decide the outcome.

Giving BFL a scammer tag on BTC talk does absolutely nothing to decide any type of outcome for BFL (especially if we're are as insignificant as you and BFL state), it would serve as a warning to unsuspecting newbs or eternal optimists to do some due diligence and that at least 800 people (an overwhelming majority) feel they are playing unfairly (to be nice about it).

That's be like the US drawing a single county from a single state and letting them decide the next President.

A little overdramatic perhaps, a scammer tag has no ability to affect BFL in any way other way than the people on this forum, which according to you and BFL is a small insignificant number.  BTC talk applying a scammer tag to BFL does not elevate a single person to a position of essentially ultimate authority.  It simply serves as a warning to people who come here looking for information.  You really overstep the realistic analogy approach on that one mate.

bASIC ran his most if not all of his 'operation' here, thus it is fair for the voices here to decide.  BFL advertises here and elsewhere and has their own site.  Why should this little corner have the ultimate say?

Not sure what the percentage of business done on this forum has to do with anything.  As mentioned a scammer tag on BTC talk is not the ultimate say it is only relevant to people who come to BTC talk, so if only a small percentage of business is done here then only a small percentage of prospective customers will see it.  bASIC had their own website, BFL used the fuck out of BTC talk in the early days as well (and still do advertising again in the thousands per week?).

[k9quaint]

BFL advertises here and elsewhere and has their own site.  Why should this little corner have the ultimate say?

If this forum is in fact a "little corner" then it could not have "the ultimate say". All putting a scammer tag on BFL would do is warn off other Bitcointalk readers. BFL is still able to reach millions via Google AdWords. Of course, I would imagine that BFL would stop advertising here if they were labeled a scammer. So that will probably never happen.

[bronan]

Well i agree it will not happen since bfl people here are considered hero's
I do not have to say that they give a good income to the forum so NEVER gonna happen even if they steal fort knox itself
Sure as hell BFL does not scammed any of the big boys here just the normal people like me get screwed by them.

[thy]

Yes

[OleOle]

This whole thing is crazy.

It´s the same like I would sell Quantum computers on pre-order now.

Just 1,000,000$, order now!!!   

You will get em, but the question is when.

Come on.
Everbody who runs a business like this, will be called a fraudster, scammer, etc, why not now?!?

Exactly. They shouldn't be allowed to perpetuate their crappola on this forum. They've had well over a year to get their act together and instead they continue to misrepresent their capabilities and relieve people of pre-order monies with unrealistic delivery schedules. And they shouldn't be allowed to advertise on this forum either, the last thing people need is to spend $4680 for Monarch's that might arrive over a year late, if at all.




-------

Overhead at the water cooler in 2013:

"I'm gonna get in on this Bitcoin mining thing."
"Oh yeah? Why is that then?"
"You can make loads of money using a new miner, it has awesome power and is only four grand and change."
"Where do you buy it?"
"You pre-order it and pay for it now, then they ship it out in a couple of weeks."


Overhead at the watercooler in 2014:

"How's the mining thing going, what did you call it, bitcoins?"
"Yeah, bitcoins... well, I haven't got the miner yet but it should arrive soon."
"Alrighty, how much did you pay for it again?"
"Basically five grand, it's a bit annoying but it will be cool when I get it."
"Yeah, sounds cool... hey wait, have you paid the five grand or do you pay that when it arrives?"
"I've already paid it."
"Dang..."


Overhead at the water cooler in 2015:

"Fuckity, fuckity, fuckity, fuckity, fuckity, fauck!!"
"Hey man, what's up?"
"Those faukers haven't sent me that miner yet !#!#$!!! "
"Really?! That was like ages ago man! What the hell is happening? Didn't you pay like five thousand dollars for that?"
"Don't remind me, there's so much I could have done with that money."
"Jeez man, you got ripped big time."


 

[Fiyasko]

They shouldn't be allowed to perpetuate their crappola on this forum. They've had well over a year to get their act together and instead they continue to misrepresent their capabilities and relieve people of pre-order monies with unrealistic delivery schedules. And they shouldn't be allowed to advertise on this forum either, the last thing people need is to spend $4680 for Monarch's that might arrive over a year late, if at all.




-------

Overhead at the water cooler in 2012:

"I'm gonna get in on this Bitcoin mining thing."
"Oh yeah? Why is that then?"
"You can make loads of money using a new miner, it has awesome power and is only twentytwo thousand and change."
"Where do you buy it?"
"You pre-order it and pay for it now, then they ship it out in a couple of weeks."


Overhead at the watercooler in 2013:

"How's the mining thing going, what did you call it, bitcoins?"
"Yeah, bitcoins... well, I haven't got the miner yet but it should arrive soon."
"Alrighty, how much did you pay for it again?"
"Basically twentythree grand, it's a bit annoying but it will be cool when I get it."
"Yeah, sounds cool... hey wait, have you paid the twentythree grand or do you pay that when it arrives?"
"I've already paid it."
"Dang..."


Overhead at the water cooler in 2014:

"Fuckity, fuckity, fuckity, fuckity, fuckity, fauck!!"
"Hey man, what's up?"
"Those faukers haven't sent me that miner yet !#!#$!!! "
"Really?! That was like ages ago man! What the hell is happening? Didn't you pay like twentytwo thousand dollars for that?"
"Don't remind me, there's so much I could have done with that money."
"Jeez man, you got ripped big time."


 

Wanna see something funny? Change the dates back by 1 year, change the prices to last years prices, and the above becomes a fact of what BFL is doing to Thousands of people, RIGHT NOW
Not a scammer? Allowed to advertise here? ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

[John122]

If they didn't stop shipping the new-Jalapeno for a whole month, maybe this one wouldn't have been a scam. With today's difficulty, they effectively managed to even ruin this product!

[Fiyasko]

Bumped

[OleOle]

If they didn't stop shipping the new-Jalapeno for a whole month, maybe this one wouldn't have been a scam. With today's difficulty, they effectively managed to even ruin this product!

Yeah, they're a bunch of clowns. I'm happy I managed to get a refund from Paypal. I'll never deal with them again.

 

[Thenen]

Nah, they shouldn't get a scammer tag and instead a warning tag.... cause scammer are for taking money and giving nothing... so warning tag is good

[becoin]

Nah, they shouldn't get a scammer tag and instead a warning tag.... cause scammer are for taking money and giving nothing... so warning tag is good

If scammer takes from you 1000 bucks and in exchange gives you 100 he is not a scammer because he still gives you something back!? Is that what you're saying?