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Author Topic: Steem pyramid scheme revealed  (Read 107034 times)
iamnotback
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July 26, 2016, 10:25:13 PM
 #221

Even if it started with an equal distribution, the shares would quickly accumulate because the poorer shareholders would be lured to sell in prices that thought were "OK". They'd be trading what -to them- are useless tokens worthless for their day to day survival, with btc->$$$ which have tangible RL impact.

The difference is the power-law distribution would be derived from competition. So you would have a wider diversity of insiders.

Also I think we can keep the n00bs accounts locked up 104 week withdrawals, so the power-law can't force liquidation so rapidly. Giving the n00bs a chance to partake of the upside appreciation. The power-law distribution will still form amongst the content creators earnings as well, but again in a competitive environment.

From what I'm seeing, it's possible to sell or acquire loaded accounts with a discount. And many n00bs do just that. Hey I'm selling my acc for 0.1, 0.2, 0.4 btc...

Please tell me where I can sell my 1050 STEEM POWER?? (note I might not sell now though)

Also please re-read my prior post.

Yeah maybe some small accounts will be sold, but I doubt most. Especially true if the STEEM POWER has some function (e.g. "karma") and they like using the site (i.e. low attrition rate).
AlexGR
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July 26, 2016, 10:33:17 PM
 #222

>Please tell me where I can sell my 1050 STEEM POWER??

As of right now, nowhere. Only the account loaded with it. And that means someone will have to gradually drain it to get the power over 104 weeks.

Perhaps smart contracts might be implemented on the blockchain level that are immutable, meaning that one would be selling their weekly SP income which would be automatically directed to the buyer - if the buying condition (price) is met in terms of liquid steem.

I come over to you tell you I want to buy your 1050 steem, you say ok, I'm selling it for 800 liquid steem. We open an online form on the site itself which shows us the "contract", what I give you (800), what I take in return (your SP plus interest or no interest in XXX weeks), and then we both sign it and it's done. You then go cash out your STEEM and you are ok with it.

As for what you say, yes I doubt most will be selling it too. They don't know how.

Anyway...
iamnotback
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July 26, 2016, 11:23:12 PM
Last edit: July 26, 2016, 11:41:31 PM by iamnotback
 #223

I decided to offer a practical suggestion to all Steemit users on avoiding the potential copyright infringement problem:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@anonymint/easily-help-steemit-avoid-copyright-liability

Thanks to @chryspano for the upvote. That is a good sign for the possibility of Steemit (not saying it is enough to overcome the issues of the voting system as currently is, but it shows something about the community if he is representative).
AlexGR
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July 26, 2016, 11:48:46 PM
 #224

"There appears to be an easy (way) to find"

Also give it a space before and prior the image, it seems stuck on it.


frenulum
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July 27, 2016, 12:01:37 AM
 #225

I got raped. Give me money.

Jan 2018 recommendations: HST, ETN, HTML, EOS
AlexGR
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July 27, 2016, 12:07:20 AM
 #226

I got raped. Give me money.

Don't plagiarize me bro

LOL Cheesy
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July 27, 2016, 01:44:50 AM
 #227


I've have been battling a chronic illness for the past 4+ years

...due to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)

I am pretty sure I have Multiple Sclerosis-like scarring

I don't know if this could be the cultprit but, have you ruled out chronic c. pneumoniae? (intracellular bacterium that steals energy(ATP) from the cells and is linked to many "nasty" things)
http://med.stanford.edu/chronicfatiguesyndrome/infections/chlamydia/chlamydia-experts.html

An indirect indicator of c. pneumoniae could be the NAC test(scroll one page down)
http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/NAC.html

If an antibody test is done, I would consider high IgG levels a confirmation, (low IgG doesn't necessary exclude infection)

Some more information here...
http://www.cpnhelp.org/chlamydia_pneumoniae_anti
http://www.cpnhelp.org/the_chlamydia_pneumoniae_


Maybe it has nothing to do in your case but I will leave this post here just in case...
For the record this little "bug" almost killed me. I'm recovering very very slowly...
 

[disclaimer]
I'm not a doctor and the above post is not medical advice.




smooth
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July 27, 2016, 01:59:05 AM
 #228

I decided to offer a practical suggestion to all Steemit users on avoiding the potential copyright infringement problem:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@anonymint/easily-help-steemit-avoid-copyright-liability

Thanks to @chryspano for the upvote. That is a good sign for the possibility of Steemit (not saying it is enough to overcome the issues of the voting system as currently is, but it shows something about the community if he is representative).

Your posts are really quite good. I especially like this one as a 100% positive approach to reducing copyright risks rather than people going and attacking other people who aren't making the same judgements on the issue.
iamnotback
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July 27, 2016, 02:22:31 AM
Last edit: July 27, 2016, 02:37:06 AM by iamnotback
 #229

I decided to offer a practical suggestion to all Steemit users on avoiding the potential copyright infringement problem:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@anonymint/easily-help-steemit-avoid-copyright-liability

Thanks to @chryspano for the upvote. That is a good sign for the possibility of Steemit (not saying it is enough to overcome the issues of the voting system as currently is, but it shows something about the community if he is representative).

Your posts are really quite good. I especially like this one as a 100% positive approach to reducing copyright risks rather than people going and attacking other people who aren't making the same judgements on the issue.

Thank you. I tried to be very conscious of not offending any interests (other than the record labels, lol).

My nature from Bitcointalk had become flippant or indifferent/indignant/rushed (and I've been much of my life a bit of frank speaker often carelessly choosing my words before thinking if there is a way to say something that might minimize friction), but I guess I do remember how to do this if I put my mind to it.

I do remember when I was 4 or 5, I was very into pleasing the crowd and would entertain adults in the park. They were kind of enamored with the blond/blue eyed boy who was very conversant. Meaning I was trying to build a good feeling or rapport. I become more jaded I guess as life went on. Parents divorced, 10 schools before graduating high school, step-father who threw me down the stairs (actually he was a good man in many ways), etc.. Mostly lately it had just been a struggle to survive and get through daily life without totally failing all my responsibilities. Somehow from Steemit I ended up at this young man's Youtube (<--- click this to see how spoiled some Americans are now! ... perhaps this is not an average case) and I was realizing how difficult my life has been past several years compared to his and also remembering when I was younger and goofing off more like him. Put into perspective how miserable my life has been lately, but I am also happy for the challenge and also for being here in blockchain research since 2013.
AlexGR
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July 27, 2016, 02:33:23 AM
 #230

Pondering whether buying SDs at 0.82$ is a sure bet...

https://steemit.com/steem/@alexgr/is-buying-steem-dollars-at-0-00127-btc-a-sure-bet
r0ach
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July 27, 2016, 02:47:58 AM
 #231

I decided to launch a censorship resistance test of Steemit.  I know the Larimers don't seem to like Trump, so their reaction to this will be real interesting:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@r0achtheunsavory/5xdjbo-will-steem-become-a-valid-decentralized-social-media-network-or-just-a-tool-to-push-political-correctness-and-marxist-propaganda

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iamnotback
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July 27, 2016, 04:38:18 AM
 #232

Asking for proof:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@infinitor/why-steemit-has-started-penetrating-the-social-circle-of-which-i-am-a-part#@anonymint/re-infinitor-why-steemit-has-started-penetrating-the-social-circle-of-which-i-am-a-part-20160727t043628979z
iamnotback
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July 27, 2016, 04:53:01 AM
Last edit: July 27, 2016, 11:03:30 AM by iamnotback
 #233

I decided to launch a censorship resistance test of Steemit.  I know the Larimers don't seem to like Trump, so their reaction to this will be real interesting:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@r0achtheunsavory/5xdjbo-will-steem-become-a-valid-decentralized-social-media-network-or-just-a-tool-to-push-political-correctness-and-marxist-propaganda

Your writing was quite good, to the point concision, as well as your conceptualization. I upvoted it enthusiastically.

Edit: readers I am not condoning the KKK. I am merely endorsing the open-mindedness test, the abstract conceptualization, and elucidation.
DecentralizeEconomics
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July 27, 2016, 05:01:40 AM
 #234

I decided to launch a censorship resistance test of Steemit.  I know the Larimers don't seem to like Trump, so their reaction to this will be real interesting:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@r0achtheunsavory/5xdjbo-will-steem-become-a-valid-decentralized-social-media-network-or-just-a-tool-to-push-political-correctness-and-marxist-propaganda

They know Trump's going to send back all the communists, perverts, and trash.


"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
iamnotback
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July 27, 2016, 05:25:57 AM
 #235

smooth we have some feedback from a mother but still not my parents generation:

https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@shcameron/hello-steemers-i-am-a-mother-daughter-investor-cook-friend-and-i-have-found-the-most-interesting-hacks#@anonymint/re-shcameron-hello-steemers-i-am-a-mother-daughter-investor-cook-friend-and-i-have-found-the-most-interesting-hacks-20160727t040916350z
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July 27, 2016, 05:30:34 AM
 #236


While she seems not quite your typical mom (IT professional, some exposure to Bitcoin), making her warm lead from the start, this seems key:

Quote
Then, I read an article this morning about steemit on finance.yahoo.com

She's finding out about steemit not directly from a personal connection to a blocknerd but from general buzz in the popular media (and then converting to a user). This may be an isolated incident, we don't know, but it is very interesting.
iamnotback
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July 27, 2016, 06:28:44 AM
 #237


While she seems not quite your typical mom (IT professional, some exposure to Bitcoin), making her warm lead from the start, this seems key:

Quote
Then, I read an article this morning about steemit on finance.yahoo.com

She's finding out about steemit not directly from a personal connection to a blocknerd but from general buzz in the popular media (and then converting to a user). This may be an isolated incident, we don't know, but it is very interesting.

Can anyone suggest some learning resources for her as she has requested?

https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@shcameron/hello-steemers-i-am-a-mother-daughter-investor-cook-friend-and-i-have-found-the-most-interesting-hacks#@shcameron/re-anonymint-re-shcameron-re-anonymint-re-shcameron-hello-steemers-i-am-a-mother-daughter-investor-cook-friend-and-i-have-found-the-most-interesting-hacks-20160727t055157230z

Please consider posting a reply to her there.
thestringpuller
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July 27, 2016, 06:31:34 AM
 #238


That article is very myopic:

Quote
Over the past two years, Qntra authors have gotten paid for their work directly by MPEx investors as advertised. At a later time, if someone wants to buy the whole of Qntra, shareholders will get paid for their shares.

...

In essence Steemit users are getting paid by Bitcoin investors via exchanges, similar to Qntra. However these Bitcoin investors interested in STEEM are few and as such there is less than a total of 1,000 BTC worth of bids for STEEM across all exchanges.

If someone holds a large stash of bitcoins, what would compel him to ever buy STEEM? (outside of speculating of course) In the case of Qntra, even before revenue is realized, the company may sell for more than investors paid per share. A STEEM investor never has ownership over any of the content published on Steemit. For them buying STEEM is essentially a gracious donation to content creators.

What he means is that the content is public on the blockchain and is not owned by anyone. Anyone can use that data from the blockchain.

But he fails to understand that the value of a social network is not its content, but its users ongoing use of the site due to their investment in the communities of the site.

Quote
The only hope for Steemit is incentivizing professional content creators to contribute. Professional filmmakers, television producers, comic authors, etc., would be the only content rational Bitcoin investors would be willing to purchase. Even in this case due to the mode of monetization, awarding content payouts will always be optional.

A professional television producer creates a pilot with a $10,000 budget. After a great deal of market testing, the producer realizes the show has great potential with his target audiences. One option for distribution is he can release it for free on a service like YouTube and embed it in a Steemit blog post. Here he is at the whim of generosity of STEEM users. It’s risky distributing in this channel as STEEM users are clearly irrational and won’t pay a realistic price for consuming the media. Another option is the producer to sell it to Netflix as an exclusive for $1mn up front and a possible royalty deal after a certain number of episodes aired. The latter option for the producer will likely prevent him from posting the content on Steemit.

It seems it would be very difficult for Steemit to incentivize professional content creators directly.

He fails to understand that indie content can be a lot more interesting and precisely targeted to smaller audiences (coteries) than Hollywood content.

And indie artists do give away free promos on their work in order to upsell other work or paraphernalia.

Indie artists often jam with their fans so they are in tune with what to create. Also they iterate in smaller morsels, and get feedback along the way.

Putting some content on the blockchain, doesn't mean creators have to put all their content on the blockchain.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about in terms of monetizing content consumption. It's very clear Bitcoin investors, (which makes up 98% of the STEEM market), are paying content creators. How much the content creators are paid by these Bitcoin investors is determined by the curators. That's the entirety of the system in its current form. So I wrote the article asking, "What tangible value do Bitcoin investors get in return for STEEM."

In the context of professional content creation, where independent creators are a subset, the entirety of one's living is earned through selling produced content. For a filmmaker this is charging people to see their movie, for a author this is charging people to read their work, for a game developer it's people buying and playing their game. Steemit in no way in its current form gives Bitcoin investors any direct value. Sure, you may say professionals dabble in Steemit as you stated above, but it will in no way facilitate the development of professional content. If a Bitcoin investor can directly broker a deal with a producer for a cut of a production's revenue, vs buying STEEM power... From a strict investment point of view, buying STEEM power as a Bitcoin investor looking to make a legitimate ROI (one procured from actual productivity), is essentially a gracious donation to STEEM users.


>But he fails to understand that the value of a social network is not its content, but its users ongoing use of the site due to their investment in the communities of the site.

Shut the fuck up for a second, and stop making assumptions. A social network is not valuable at all. If so Reddit would be profitable already (after  a decade or something), and it wouldn't have taken Facebook a quarter of a billion dollars and a decade to become profitable. Social networks are indicative of bubbles. Just because Facebook was able to avoid having their bubble completely popped doesn't make them a success story. In fact research has shown consuming large amounts of social media usually reduces critical thinking and overall intellect, so trying to attribute ANY value to a social network seems retarded. How about people actually go outside and socialize, instead of sitting behind a computer screen pretending to socialize?

There is no value to be mined from Steemit from the "users' ongoing use of the site", because they aren't producing anything of value. Using Steemit will not yield flying cars, or cold fusion.

>He fails to understand that indie content can be a lot more interesting and precisely targeted to smaller audiences (coteries) than Hollywood content.

Dude. You are so uninformed in regards to the entertainment marketing machine. Most indie artist who do it out of love, say Diggable Planets, still have to eat, they just care less about the monetization of their content. They are the ones where "enough" is an reachable goal. For these people the most efficient machine for distributing their work is the best machine. Steemit is not one of them.

Lets say the value in Steemit is the eyeballs attached. Well how do you get eyeballs to see your content? Steem Power. So you go and buy a bunch of Steem and conver it to Steem Power just to upvote your content visibility. It makes the front page of course, but you find that there is a 1% click through rate, that is only 1% of people convert to your personal website from Steemit. On top of that only 10% of that 1% actually purchases something. Until there is a sane market for Steem, (which I doubt there ever will be), the PPC bids for Youtube, Google, etc. ads are far more efficient, and produce far more revenue per dollar invested. Even then the targeted nature of internet advertising has to be done with a great deal of finesse or you end up losing money on your advertising campaign due to low conversion rates.

If brand advertising becomes the bread and butter of Steemit, then the indie creator automatically gets pushed out of the trending stack. In this case large corporations are the STEEM power whales and use Steem as essentially a giant billboard.

Either way, STEEM has a lot of problems to figure out before its valuable. And honestly due to lack of acknowledgement of them or outright denial, I don't see it becoming valuable ever.

Your idealistic assumptions are myopic. I'm only making realistic evaluations, with valid concerns. Not one person has convinced me I wouldn't be a bagholder if I were to buy STEEM, and it seems other BTC investors are realizing this as the price dropped 0.0059 to 0.0041 since the release of my article.
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July 27, 2016, 06:38:42 AM
 #239

^UGH, I already pointed out that content buyers can now bid and negotiate with a global set of content providers (lowering everyone's costs)--this allows more competition and easier access for new and emerging artists.

If you see a move towards zero marginal costs, it's going to happen--it's the way capitalism works.

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July 27, 2016, 06:59:13 AM
Last edit: July 27, 2016, 08:23:10 AM by iamnotback
 #240

Thanks for coming here to discuss+debate. The more we can learn, the better.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about in terms of monetizing content consumption. It's very clear Bitcoin investors, (which makes up 98% of the STEEM market), are paying content creators. How much the content creators are paid by these Bitcoin investors is determined by the curators. That's the entirety of the system in its current form. So I wrote the article asking, "What tangible value do Bitcoin investors get in return for STEEM."

In the context of professional content creation, where independent creators are a subset, the entirety of one's living is earned through selling produced content. For a filmmaker this is charging people to see their movie, for a author this is charging people to read their work, for a game developer it's people buying and playing their game. Steemit in no way in its current form gives Bitcoin investors any direct value. Sure, you may say professionals dabble in Steemit as you stated above, but it will in no way facilitate the development of professional content. If a Bitcoin investor can directly broker a deal with a producer for a cut of a production's revenue, vs buying STEEM power... From a strict investment point of view, buying STEEM power as a Bitcoin investor looking to make a legitimate ROI (one procured from actual productivity), is essentially a gracious donation to STEEM users.

You appear to be missing the point that the business model of Steem is to onboard many users, then sell them a microtransactions ecosystem that has yet to be fully developed. So far, they have the 3 second block period confirmations of the Graphene DPoS blockchain and the claimed high transaction rate headroom which currently Bitcoin's blockchain can't do (and Lightning Networks for Bitcoin has other technical hurdles to cross yet).

The content is there to engage the usership in order to build an ecosystem for gamification and selling things online, including for example selling content, e.g. selling music downloads.

Quote
But he fails to understand that the value of a social network is not its content, but its users ongoing use of the site due to their investment in the communities of the site.

Shut the fuck up for a second, and stop making assumptions.

You write with the similar profane cockiness as your accomplice MPeX (the self-proclaimed DAO cracker). It is somewhat of an entertaining joust. So is the sport of boxing. Do you do both?

A social network is not valuable at all. If so Reddit would be profitable already (after  a decade or something), and it wouldn't have taken Facebook a quarter of a billion dollars and a decade to become profitable. Social networks are indicative of bubbles. Just because Facebook was able to avoid having their bubble completely popped doesn't make them a success story.

There is no value to be mined from Steemit from the "users' ongoing use of the site", because they aren't producing anything of value. Using Steemit will not yield flying cars, or cold fusion.

If you knew about my post history, I was the one telling everyone months ago that Steem and Synereo would fail because the advertising revenue per user per year for the social networks averages less than $20. So of course they aren't very profitable businesses ($20 is such a small morsel of a user's annual value production).

Everyone is still trying to find other demand cases for crypto-currencies other than Bitcoin's use as a quasi-legal wire transfer and bank avoidance tool.

It is thought that perhaps the free market can open up new currency uses in the microtransactions sphere. Yes we all know about why microtransactions haven't been adopted thus far. We have linked to the research articles on that.

One thought is that more people can be come content creators, not just dumb consumers of content (which makes them dumb over time).

In fact research has shown consuming large amounts of social media usually reduces critical thinking and overall intellect, so trying to attribute ANY value to a social network seems retarded. How about people actually go outside and socialize, instead of sitting behind a computer screen pretending to socialize?

Dude are you a 60 year old dinosaur? The world is changing and you better adapt.

We are on the cusp of changing social networking into a productive activity. And meeting outside physically is as inhibiting to exploration as gold is to wire transfers. You seem to be oblivious to the power of the efficiency of the speed-of-light.

Quote
He fails to understand that indie content can be a lot more interesting and precisely targeted to smaller audiences (coteries) than Hollywood content.

Dude. You are so uninformed in regards to the entertainment marketing machine. Most indie artist who do it out of love, say Diggable Planets, still have to eat, they just care less about the monetization of their content. They are the ones where "enough" is an reachable goal. For these people the most efficient machine for distributing their work is the best machine.

Also the one that gives them the most useful networking with fans.

Steemit is not one of them.

Lets say the value in Steemit is the eyeballs attached. Well how do you get eyeballs to see your content? Steem Power. So you go and buy a bunch of Steem and conver it to Steem Power just to upvote your content visibility. It makes the front page of course, but you find that there is a 1% click through rate, that is only 1% of people convert to your personal website from Steemit. On top of that only 10% of that 1% actually purchases something. Until there is a sane market for Steem, (which I doubt there ever will be), the PPC bids for Youtube, Google, etc. ads are far more efficient, and produce far more revenue per dollar invested. Even then the targeted nature of internet advertising has to be done with a great deal of finesse or you end up losing money on your advertising campaign due to low conversion rates.

You don't yet understand that the voting system is an onboarding gimmick. It was designed to psychologically fool people into joining.

The end goal is to create an efficient means for content distribution, networking, and sales. I also have my doubts that they can achieve it. But at least I recognize the conceptual potential.

If brand advertising becomes the bread and butter of Steemit, then the indie creator automatically gets pushed out of the trending stack. In this case large corporations are the STEEM power whales and use Steem as essentially a giant billboard.

Agreed.


Either way, STEEM has a lot of problems to figure out before its valuable. And honestly due to lack of acknowledgement of them or outright denial, I don't see it becoming valuable ever.

Agreed.

Your idealistic assumptions are myopic. I'm only making realistic evaluations, with valid concerns. Not one person has convinced me I wouldn't be a bagholder if I were to buy STEEM, and it seems other BTC investors are realizing this as the price dropped 0.0059 to 0.0041 since the release of my article.

I wasn't making assumptions. I am bearish on Steem economically. I was correcting you on what might be possible conceptually. I presume you aren't aware that I am contemplating whether I might create a Steem competitor. And I would structure many aspects of it differently.
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