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Author Topic: Steem pyramid scheme revealed  (Read 104346 times)
PandaMiner
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October 02, 2017, 12:42:10 PM
 #1421

Whatever but holding 80% with them is too much.It is hard to earn steem now.Its because Steemit was designed for early adopters, not a fair distribution.Its hard for a newbie to earn with an excellent post while an early member can easily get hundreds with a shitty old post.
it's because their vote system. need invest more than 10k to get 1$ upvote. 20$ per day. 600$ per month. this is game for big player

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Greedy_bear
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October 02, 2017, 01:39:59 PM
 #1422

Looks like society will never learn to avoid pyramid schemes. Even those who know - just hope to jump in, pump and dump, really being an accomplice. I recently read pyramid and ponzi are big in China now btw and the government is taking action, perhaps ICO ban was part of this. This is why regulation is needed as it seems decentralized systems just can't deal with some problems.
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October 02, 2017, 02:56:20 PM
 #1423

Whatever but holding 80% with them is too much.It is hard to earn steem now.Its because Steemit was designed for early adopters, not a fair distribution.Its hard for a newbie to earn with an excellent post while an early member can easily get hundreds with a shitty old post.
Posting in steem is wasting time, you will earn nothing, you 'd better join bounty program, in one or three month you will earn 5000 times than doing activities in steem , I have tried steem, it was boring and disgusting, creating great post earn zero. Fuck steem.

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kevinnmr
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October 02, 2017, 03:01:15 PM
 #1424

What bounties are coming up? Where do you find them?

alay1388
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October 02, 2017, 04:44:09 PM
 #1425

I don't know why some people are surprised about the crash in Steem price, it was designed to fail with the distribution of their tokens, well conceived idea but the developers/ speculators greediness is biting back. Even the new set rules still have some weakness but could help if the market regain trust of the project but I doubt this because alot of people have been burnt already
iluvpie60
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October 06, 2017, 05:47:49 PM
 #1426

Whatever but holding 80% with them is too much.It is hard to earn steem now.Its because Steemit was designed for early adopters, not a fair distribution.Its hard for a newbie to earn with an excellent post while an early member can easily get hundreds with a shitty old post.
it's because their vote system. need invest more than 10k to get 1$ upvote. 20$ per day. 600$ per month. this is game for big player

You don't need to invest anything. There are plenty of dolphins and whales who upvote good content and you get paid for it.

I just started looking at it a few weeks ago. None of this thread really makes sense and seems like a bunch of people spreading FUD.

It looks like it has its  own hangup Iguess in that they pre-minded it. But I went and looked through a bunch of stuff and see a huge community prospering. So.... Don't buy any steem then! Just ust the platform and earn it.

Easy!



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Hyperme.sh
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October 06, 2017, 05:50:44 PM
 #1427

Steem’s blockchain (including the user data for both Steemit.com and busy.org) has apparently been offline for roughly a half-day already and still ongoing downtime.

How can this DPoS centralized ledger design that powers EOS, Steem(it), Lisk, Ark, and others be relied upon if it can entirely go offline for hours or days?

More details about Dan’s boondoogle Frankenstein premeditated scam creations.
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October 18, 2017, 08:25:40 AM
 #1428

Steemit supporters are using the Vegas incident to promote their censorship resistance (remember dtube is a Steem blockchain app):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maoeCjI9o6E

Kudos on the guerilla (viral?) marketing.
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October 18, 2017, 11:24:15 AM
 #1429

Steem’s blockchain (including the user data for both Steemit.com and busy.org) has apparently been offline for roughly a half-day already and still ongoing downtime.

How can this DPoS centralized ledger design that powers EOS, Steem(it), Lisk, Ark, and others be relied upon if it can entirely go offline for hours or days?

More details about Dan’s boondoogle Frankenstein premeditated scam creations.

The meatpuppet is back, 72 pages of pure BS, that's what happens when you can't create anything of value, you only try to do harm.

The real question is how can anyone trust/rely on YOU with all this BS coming out of your mouth.



 

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October 18, 2017, 11:18:59 PM
 #1430

Steem’s blockchain (including the user data for both Steemit.com and busy.org) has apparently been offline for roughly a half-day already and still ongoing downtime.

How can this DPoS centralized ledger design that powers EOS, Steem(it), Lisk, Ark, and others be relied upon if it can entirely go offline for hours or days?

More details about Dan’s boondoogle Frankenstein premeditated scam creations.

The meatpuppet is back, 72 pages of pure BS, that's what happens when you can't create anything of value, you only try to do harm.

The real question is how can anyone trust/rely on YOU with all this BS coming out of your mouth.

The link in your quote included the lengthy discussion wherein @smooth clarified the matter and we discussed it further. I suggest readers read all of that to get a more balanced view than what I what above.

As for the EOS ICO probably being an illegal security and the whales being in control of who earns on Steemit, I have not yet seen a cogent rebuttal to my points. Readers can dig into the details upthread and the quoted link above to the EOS discussion.
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October 19, 2017, 01:12:55 AM
 #1431

Makes sense... like EOS is a scam... 1 year ICO saving ETH Wink
Smoothmazi
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October 19, 2017, 01:24:11 AM
 #1432

The word scam has been continuously used freely the past couple of weeks now. Steem might be a scam, but they're worse and obvious scam coins out there  Angry
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Make it easy!


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October 19, 2017, 02:36:53 AM
 #1433

I am so lucky to read this thread. I planned to buy some Steem this week.
Thanks all

abeke
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October 19, 2017, 03:04:48 AM
 #1434

I was going to invest to it too. Not much, but anyway thank you.

vanarebane
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October 19, 2017, 03:22:05 AM
 #1435

I think steem is a scam for sure, I can't withdraw my earnings there, and others can hardly do it too. Never invest in Dan's project, BTS, STEEM, EOS. You will lose money.
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October 19, 2017, 04:04:39 AM
 #1436

Steem has done some interesting things. I am not accusing it of being a total scam.

My point (in addition to the weakness of DPoS) is simply that structure of rewarding content creators and app developers is not objective and is up to the whims of a few dozen whales. And the whales who are not conscientious could be instead awarding the communities’ minted tokens to themselves via blogging sockpuppets and/or kickbacks.

I do not have good confidence that if I as a blogger or app developer and invest my effort and resources to produce blogs, build a following, and make apps for the Steem blockchain, that I will be rewarded in the long-term. Because I perceive based on my interactions with some of the whales, that the have highly leftist skewed ideology. Yet their actions are likely quite selfish as hidden behind the curtain of sockpuppets and nepotism.

This is a lack of permissionless and trustless quality that we need for decentralization to take hold and grow.

If they’re going to reward from a collectivized pot of tokens, then at least remove as much subjectivity as possible, so the everyone would have confidence to work for the ecosystem.

Subjective voting from collectivized debasement of the money supply is inherently and insolubly flawed. I wrote a blog about it last year on Steemit explaining the logic for why such voting can never be fair and must be non-linearly (non-proportional even to their whale-size share of the money supply) skewed towards the whales else it can be gamed.

So if you want to fix Steem, you have to first discard the voting from collectivized debasement of the money supply.

Seriously Steemians, why would anyone work for the Steem ecosystem?

I really do not see why any one would. It is purely a speculative vehicle and circle-jerk or scheme for whales.

And then he began to slip down that slippery slope of rationalizing collectivistic clusterfucks (it is interesting because it somewhat parallels the decline I went through after I left the USA and started rationalizing various mistakes in judgement I made because underlying I was still so angry about being a slave in my home country due to an immigrant wife I stupidly brought to the USA):

I also learned that my capitalist mindset was too short-sighted. I began to see how building a community around the selfish motives of earning income by charging fees on transactions limited adoption. I learned that "inflation" isn't theft if it is done to compensate those who bring value. I learned that true theft is expecting people to work for free without getting a share in the product. This maturing perspective caused me to diverge from many of people who were originally attracted to BitShares.

I do not think anybody is refuting that Dan has created blockchains and accomplished a significant amount of development work. I certainly have never stated otherwise.

Btw Daniel admitted that Bitshares governance was not working as Paul Sztorc explained, but Dan claims Steem solved decentralized budgeting but I have pointed out it is mathematically impossible that it did or could.


The liquidity factor is also negligible in those terms, where you are willing to invest for years because you view the prospects are very good. (Take AlexGR for example, he seems reasonably positive about it longer term, and likely doesn't care that he has to be locked in for at last 1-2 years.)

I am positive because the idea is based on a solid concept.

Disagree. The only thing solid was that enough speculators could be fooled by the pump enabling the whales to cash out several $millions.

We bystanders were able to get some crumbs. I got about $6500 out of it, so I am grateful because I would have been entirely depleted of funds by now otherwise. Steem funded me to fight on longer. So I am very grateful. But that doesn't mean I should lie about the reality I see. All of my blogging activity on Steem was sincere.

- reward scaling (bloggers increase necessitates marketcap increase to keep rewards stable). This is a major issue that I can't see getting fixed without external revenues.

Voting and perpetual rewards are 2 of the several fatal flaws.

Steem did point the way towards possible designs that could scale and be successful. It was a valid experiment that advanced our thinking.



Some more thoughts about Dan, Steem voting, and the DPoS decentralized ledger:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1904415.msg23311260#msg23311260
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November 02, 2017, 06:24:51 AM
 #1437

Some math and analysis of some of the flaws in Dan's DPoS:

https://steemit.com/blockchain/@anonymint/consortium-blockchains-e-g-dpos-and-tendermint-can-t-internet-scale (Archived: http://archive.is/zLuR0)

Alternative link: https://busy.org/blockchain/@anonymint/consortium-blockchains-e-g-dpos-and-tendermint-can-t-internet-scale

Clearly you can see that Dan is not qualified to be as vaunted as a blockchain expert as some people may think.

UPDATE: We have @chryspano a whale-dolphin at Steem abusing the downvoting feature to censor the images and my entire blog post at Steem is now hidden (so much for the power of decentralization when the blockchain is overlorded by whales). Note the busy.org rendering of my blog page is still intact as that site apparently doesn’t enforce Steemit’s whale-controlled censorship.
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November 02, 2017, 06:13:28 PM
 #1438

Did anybody understand my blog? I have no feedback from any of you other than 18 upvotes before @chryspano censored it from Steemit’s viewers as explained in my prior post.

Was the math of Byzantine fault tolerant consensus more comprehensible the way I explained it? I had edited what I had from my white paper to make it a bit more explanatory.

Is no one here interested in Steem any more?
pilum5
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November 02, 2017, 06:18:37 PM
 #1439

Did anybody understand my blog? I have no feedback from any of you other than 18 upvotes before @chryspano censored it from Steemit’s viewers as explained in my prior post.

Was the math of Byzantine fault tolerant consensus more comprehensible the way I explained it? I had edited what I had from my white paper to make it a bit more explanatory.

Is no one here interested in Steem any more?
Hello, I didnt get why you need only 33% to shutdown the blockchain.
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November 02, 2017, 06:23:47 PM
 #1440

Did anybody understand my blog? I have no feedback from any of you other than 18 upvotes before @chryspano censored it from Steemit’s viewers as explained in my prior post.

Was the math of Byzantine fault tolerant consensus more comprehensible the way I explained it? I had edited what I had from my white paper to make it a bit more explanatory.

Is no one here interested in Steem any more?

Hello, I didnt get why you need only 33% to shutdown the blockchain.

Thanks for asking. I realize that math result is non-intuitive and difficult for a layman to believe.

See the “Math of liveness & safety” section of my blog. Study the explanation of the math that is quoted from my white paper.

It is because over the overlap of 2 elections for the relative pairing of two blocks, and the fact that there are N delegates who vote yet the quorum size must be T. We then solve for a mathematical relationship between T and N by equating the two expressions, because we have another requirement that the excess of N - T be equal to the aforementioned overlap 2T - N - 1.

The point is that it is the need for the ability to objectively prove the relationship between any pairings of block elections in the case that everything is relative because all actors are untrusted and the network propagation order is indeterminant (which relates back to the oft-cited FLP impossibility theorem which is mentioned in more detail in my yet unpublished white paper). This is why mathematically 33% can halt the blockchain, if we care about there existing an objective consensus (i.e. safety and consistency) and not just an unbounded number of subjective competing forks (i.e. double-spends and chaos). Of course a boastful, overeager FOMO-bag seller like Dan would claim this is incredulous, because Dan is apparently ignorant of the math and does not have his priorities on being expert on the research. I find it incredulous that Block.one raised ~$500 million thus far and apparently can’t even be bothered to hire some researchers to teach them about their technological weaknesses.

It is all in the math. I know it is non-intuitive but this result is from the 1980s (although the way I have derived it and explained the well known result may be my own unique insight). Sheesh and Dan is not even aware of it.

Realize the 33% liveness threshold (where 33% can shutdown the forward progress of the blockchain) only applies for an elected set of delegates and not to proof-of-work.
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