Bitcoin Forum
November 25, 2017, 09:57:00 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin is WAY too confusing for the average person  (Read 2809 times)
DannyHamilton
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988



View Profile
March 22, 2013, 04:30:42 AM
 #41

- snip -
I really have come to the conclusion though that BitCoin won't become widely accepted unless there are legit services like Mt.Gox out there that are web based. The majority aren't going to hassle with downloading these types of software.

Blockchain.info is pretty cool.
I understand how you can send bitcoins back and forth from within it.
I understand how you can email yourself a copy of your wallet.
- snip -

So what I hear you saying is:

"MtGox and blockchain.info exist, but I don't think Bitcoin will become widely accepted until something like MtGox or blockchain.info exist."

Huh

1511603820
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511603820

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511603820
Reply with quote  #2

1511603820
Report to moderator
Join ICO Now A blockchain platform for effective freelancing
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1511603820
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511603820

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511603820
Reply with quote  #2

1511603820
Report to moderator
1511603820
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511603820

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511603820
Reply with quote  #2

1511603820
Report to moderator
jonat3
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 04:41:35 AM
 #42

Right now it's complicated. That's where new programming comes in tied with new hardware innovations. To make it as easy and accessible as a bank account.
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 22, 2013, 04:43:26 AM
 #43

- snip -
I really have come to the conclusion though that BitCoin won't become widely accepted unless there are legit services like Mt.Gox out there that are web based. The majority aren't going to hassle with downloading these types of software.

Blockchain.info is pretty cool.
I understand how you can send bitcoins back and forth from within it.
I understand how you can email yourself a copy of your wallet.
- snip -

So what I hear you saying is:

"MtGox and blockchain.info exist, but I don't think Bitcoin will become widely accepted until something like MtGox or blockchain.info exist."

Huh

This makes me sad when people say that. That is destroying a core value of decentralize currency system. Also it hurts the community, cause full nodes are protecting the blockchain. People need to learn this before entering bitcoin.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
whatisthename
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 04:43:38 AM
 #44

Sorry, I'm really tired.
I essentially meant I think BitCoin will only be widely accepted and grow as long as sites like Mt.Gox and Blockchain exist. (and the sites become even more user friendly)

I know this is a WAY different topic, but hopefully popular sites that support Bitcoin won't be targeted by Governments. (For example like how Turkey has been known to block YouTube sometimes, other countries block other websites, etc etc)

In the long run I suspect some early adopters of Bitcoin are going to want to convert some of their coins into USD. If they initially bought the BitCoins for $10,000....but then today they are worth $1 Million and want to "cash out" of Bitcoin...I suspect they'll have Capital Gains Taxes?

BitCoin only seems to have value (in my mind, at least in the beginning of it) if there is a crappy fiat currency to compare it to (USD, EUR, ETC)





Vladimir
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812


-


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 04:46:28 AM
 #45

If Bitcoin is too confusing for an average person, which it may be. Then, perhaps, an average person shall wait a year or two and come back when 1 BTC worth 10k$. By that time I am sure more polished tools and interfaces and services will be available so that an average person will not be so confused anymore.

-
whatisthename
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 04:50:14 AM
 #46

Hi Gweedo,

I'm just being honest. I don't see BitCoin succeeding unless there are ways of accessing/using it through internet browsers where you have normal logins and passwords/ability to create easy backups (like Blockchain) etc etc.

Heck I think BitCoin is pretty damn cool, I know a LITTLE more about computers then the average person, and even I don't want to deal with Multi-Bit, Electrum, etc etc. You saw earlier in the thread how confused I was (and still kinda am) even with a lot of time looking into it.

The soccer moms and American Idol crowd won't adopt BitCoin unless there is easy web browser access. It might remove a little of the anonymous factor (but it seems like Blockchain keeps your stuff secretive, right?)...but at least it will be a currency that won't/can't have inflation problems. Right? Smiley

whatisthename
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 04:52:06 AM
 #47

If Bitcoin is too confusing for an average person, which it may be. Then, perhaps, an average person shall wait a year or two and come back when 1 BTC worth 10k$. By that time I am sure more polished tools and interfaces and services will be available so that an average person will not be so confused anymore.


That is a great comment. Makes perfect sense.
(I can't say for sure I know BitCoin well enough to say it's value in USD will go up that much, but it would be very interesting if it happened)
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 22, 2013, 05:16:01 AM
 #48

Hi Gweedo,

I'm just being honest. I don't see BitCoin succeeding unless there are ways of accessing/using it through internet browsers where you have normal logins and passwords/ability to create easy backups (like Blockchain) etc etc.

Heck I think BitCoin is pretty damn cool, I know a LITTLE more about computers then the average person, and even I don't want to deal with Multi-Bit, Electrum, etc etc. You saw earlier in the thread how confused I was (and still kinda am) even with a lot of time looking into it.

The soccer moms and American Idol crowd won't adopt BitCoin unless there is easy web browser access. It might remove a little of the anonymous factor (but it seems like Blockchain keeps your stuff secretive, right?)...but at least it will be a currency that won't/can't have inflation problems. Right? Smiley

You don't understand bitcoin and that is clear, and you shouldn't be talking about why bitcoin will or will not succeed, when you don't have a clear picture. Now what makes bitcoin amazing, put your learning cap on, that is completely decentralized, and pseudo-anonymous. So now you put your wealth on blockchain.info while it is secure, the government takes over it's database and servers your wealth is gone! Now you could back it up and use multibit to recover the wealth, but lets be honest when that non-tech crowd, or even slightly higher skilled in computers don't backup all the time or get lazy. If bitcoin succeeds cause it becomes centralized thru online wallets or light clients, then we are destroying bitcoin and it is succeeding for the wrong reasons. I think it is a great idea that maybe come back in an year or two when it isn't so EXPERIMENTAL or BETA.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
whatisthename
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 05:47:27 AM
 #49

Hi Gweedo,

I'm just being honest. I don't see BitCoin succeeding unless there are ways of accessing/using it through internet browsers where you have normal logins and passwords/ability to create easy backups (like Blockchain) etc etc.

Heck I think BitCoin is pretty damn cool, I know a LITTLE more about computers then the average person, and even I don't want to deal with Multi-Bit, Electrum, etc etc. You saw earlier in the thread how confused I was (and still kinda am) even with a lot of time looking into it.

The soccer moms and American Idol crowd won't adopt BitCoin unless there is easy web browser access. It might remove a little of the anonymous factor (but it seems like Blockchain keeps your stuff secretive, right?)...but at least it will be a currency that won't/can't have inflation problems. Right? Smiley

You don't understand bitcoin and that is clear, and you shouldn't be talking about why bitcoin will or will not succeed, when you don't have a clear picture. Now what makes bitcoin amazing, put your learning cap on, that is completely decentralized, and pseudo-anonymous. So now you put your wealth on blockchain.info while it is secure, the government takes over it's database and servers your wealth is gone! Now you could back it up and use multibit to recover the wealth, but lets be honest when that non-tech crowd, or even slightly higher skilled in computers don't backup all the time or get lazy. If bitcoin succeeds cause it becomes centralized thru online wallets or light clients, then we are destroying bitcoin and it is succeeding for the wrong reasons. I think it is a great idea that maybe come back in an year or two when it isn't so EXPERIMENTAL or BETA.

I may not know everything about BitCoin, but I know people. I know how lazy they are, or set in their ways with their everyday lives and the spheres they are in. Downloading Multi-Bit, etc etc is too much for people. It's not going to catch on mainstream. It has to be web-browser based(or easy to download apps on your phone...I saw there is one for android I think).

The key is to have services like Mt.Gox or Blockchain that are web based AND heavily promote education of offline backups (which are REALLY easy to do on Blockchain I'm happy to say...user friendly) Then if "the big bad gov't" comes in and turns off Blockchain then you're good to go. Or make it mandatory to have a one time backup file for each bitcoin address sent to your avenue of choice (email, dropbox, etc).

To show laziness/unwillingness to try new things:

I work with a Children's Charity, where literally 89% of the money we receive goes to helping children(we're really efficient), yet I literally have to beg people to sponsor a child for a mere 80cents a day in an effort to save his/her life. (in an efficient business way) I also run a business where I can help friends save money on everyday services that they use. Even WHEN I can save them a LOT of money, and they KNOW it would be a favor for them to get their business from me, most never take the time to try something different and help out a friend with a business.

Thanks for reading. Don't think of me as an enemy of Bitcoin. I like Bitcoin. I'm just thinking for mass appeal. It has to have a massive online website based presence for "the masses" to adopt it.
rm187
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 65



View Profile
March 22, 2013, 06:00:19 AM
 #50

The average person has no idea how fiat money is created,
How the relationship between US treasury, FED, and Banks work,
How the money supply is manipulated,
How currency is controlled by private banks..

If your hoping to get idiots that don't know this stuff into BTC...good luck.

1x5AFgSYTzXZ9eKJTKUfr7tiSuGyBE7Yd
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 22, 2013, 06:00:30 AM
 #51

Hi Gweedo,

I'm just being honest. I don't see BitCoin succeeding unless there are ways of accessing/using it through internet browsers where you have normal logins and passwords/ability to create easy backups (like Blockchain) etc etc.

Heck I think BitCoin is pretty damn cool, I know a LITTLE more about computers then the average person, and even I don't want to deal with Multi-Bit, Electrum, etc etc. You saw earlier in the thread how confused I was (and still kinda am) even with a lot of time looking into it.

The soccer moms and American Idol crowd won't adopt BitCoin unless there is easy web browser access. It might remove a little of the anonymous factor (but it seems like Blockchain keeps your stuff secretive, right?)...but at least it will be a currency that won't/can't have inflation problems. Right? Smiley

You don't understand bitcoin and that is clear, and you shouldn't be talking about why bitcoin will or will not succeed, when you don't have a clear picture. Now what makes bitcoin amazing, put your learning cap on, that is completely decentralized, and pseudo-anonymous. So now you put your wealth on blockchain.info while it is secure, the government takes over it's database and servers your wealth is gone! Now you could back it up and use multibit to recover the wealth, but lets be honest when that non-tech crowd, or even slightly higher skilled in computers don't backup all the time or get lazy. If bitcoin succeeds cause it becomes centralized thru online wallets or light clients, then we are destroying bitcoin and it is succeeding for the wrong reasons. I think it is a great idea that maybe come back in an year or two when it isn't so EXPERIMENTAL or BETA.

I may not know everything about BitCoin, but I know people. I know how lazy they are, or set in their ways with their everyday lives and the spheres they are in. Downloading Multi-Bit, etc etc is too much for people. It's not going to catch on mainstream. It has to be web-browser based.

The key is to have services like Mt.Gox or Blockchain that are web based AND heavily promote education of offline backups (which are REALLY easy to do on Blockchain I'm happy to say...user friendly) Then if "the big bad gov't" comes in and turns off Blockchain then you're good to go. Or make it mandatory to have a one time backup file for each bitcoin address sent to your avenue of choice (email, dropbox, etc).

To show laziness/unwillingness to try new things:

I work with a Children's Charity, where literally 89% of the money we receive goes to helping children(we're really efficient), yet I literally have to beg people to sponsor a child for a mere 80cents a day in an effort to save his/her life. (in an efficient business way) I also run a business where I can help friends save money on everyday services that they use. Even WHEN I can save them a LOT of money, and they KNOW it would be a favor for them to get their business from me, most never take the time to try something different and help out a friend with a business.

Thanks for reading. Don't think of me as an enemy of Bitcoin. I like Bitcoin. I'm just thinking for mass appeal. It has to have a massive online website based presence for "the masses" to adopt it.

You not an enemy but you don't know that much and it shows in your writings. Also bitcoin is becoming mainstream look around it is $70, a coin. But it is BETA so I don't know what you don't understand that. Maybe there will be a time for online, but right now, full nodes, and bloom filter clients working together (so you can trust your own node) are in. You need to read about the benefits of bitcoin then come back and you can say how sorry you are, for trying to destroy bitcoin core values. Cause when people trust the web, then things like the economy crashing will start to hit bitcoins, thefts will raise, with the price, and coins will be come rare. Which will be good for me, but I am not that bad of guy, to wish that. Also blockchain.info should scare the shit out of you. (Before I speak this is just tinfoil hat time, piuk is amazing programmer and the site is amazing, ultimate respect for the dude) You know why, look at big banks, blockchain.info is a big bank just waiting, it could be come too big to fail. You know how many times I check that site, a lot for paper wallets, what would stop piuk from injecting some miss data into blockchain, and causing a panic sale, or even worst he turns the site off, with out warning. Oh wait you forgot to backup after creating a new address and sending 1000 Coins to it. Sad Dude bitcoin on the online should be the trap for big bankers to setup, all of us to ignore. Yet your saying lets grab the gold bar under the big ACME box held up with a twig and string, COME ON. You can't be here if your thinking like that. And also anyone using Mt Gox as a wallet is insane even they say don't use Gox as a wallet. Online service are easy but they destroy security. Everyone should be using a full node, just to keep the network healthy and safe, but bitcoin's core values lay in that you are your own bank, you are the gate keeper, your the security guard, now don't fall asleep in your chair and let people rob you.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 22, 2013, 06:01:44 AM
 #52

The average person has no idea how fiat money is created,
How the relationship between US treasury, FED, and Banks work,
How the money supply is manipulated,
How currency is controlled by private banks

Exactly so why doesn't that have to keep tradition in bitcoin. Anyone that I teach about bitcoin, I explain everything. Just like SSL is magic to average people, bitcoin shouldn't that is the beauty of it.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
whatisthename
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 06:09:05 AM
 #53

Gweedo,

I honestly don't understand how I'm destroying BitCoin's core values. Can you help me with these two questions?

1. Blockchain will never be able to access my wallet, correct? Even if a Gov't wanted Blockchain to give them access to my wallet, they couldn't, correct?

2. (since I'm still learning) I only need to create a backup of my wallet on Blockchain once, right? If I create a backup in January....and then in June I add 50 Bitcoins to that wallet on the Blockchain website....and then a day later Blockchain get's shut down by the Gov't....I still have those 50 BitCoins on my backup from January, right? Then I can import it into another program like Multi-bit, right?

I'm confused as to why I shouldn't like Blockchain  Huh
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 22, 2013, 06:16:25 AM
 #54

1. Blockchain will never be able to access my wallet, correct? Even if a Gov't wanted Blockchain to give them access to my wallet, they couldn't, correct?
If you backup, but the government can shut down their servers and you even said people are lazy so you don't have a backup your done. Also you never know the NSA could have a super compter that can break the encryption, you never know, I don't know the exact way blockchain.info stores but if they get shutdown it isn't good.

2. (since I'm still learning) I only need to create a backup of my wallet on Blockchain once, right? If I create a backup in January....and then in June I add 50 Bitcoins to that wallet on the Blockchain website....and then a day later Blockchain get's shut down by the Gov't....I still have my BitCoins on my backup from January, right? Then I can import it into another program like Multi-bit, right?

Depends if you create a new address and send it there then no. If you just use on address, then your anonymity is affected. I don't think they are deterministic wallet.

I'm confused as to why I shouldn't like Blockchain  Huh

I saying this in general for all online wallets, but it is hurting network health, it is making people open targets on there wealth if not properly backed up. It is holding a lot of funds which are rising in price, and people are using brute force attacks on looking for people who use alias wallet names and attacking there passwords search the forums. 2FA can save you but then if your not backing up your finished.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
DannyHamilton
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988



View Profile
March 22, 2013, 06:32:14 AM
 #55

1. Blockchain will never be able to access my wallet, correct? Even if a Gov't wanted Blockchain to give them access to my wallet, they couldn't, correct?
If you backup, but the government can shut down their servers and you even said people are lazy so you don't have a backup your done. Also you never know the NSA could have a super compter that can break the encryption, you never know, I don't know the exact way blockchain.info stores but if they get shutdown it isn't good.

Bah. If the NSA can break the encryption, then they can probably break the ECDSA keys and SHA-256 hashes built in to bitcoin.  At that point it no longer matters whether you are using blockchain or not.

2. (since I'm still learning) I only need to create a backup of my wallet on Blockchain once, right? If I create a backup in January....and then in June I add 50 Bitcoins to that wallet on the Blockchain website....and then a day later Blockchain get's shut down by the Gov't....I still have my BitCoins on my backup from January, right? Then I can import it into another program like Multi-bit, right?

Depends if you create a new address and send it there then no. If you just use on address, then your anonymity is affected. I don't think they are deterministic wallet.

Exactly, you can choose.  Re-use addresses for added convenience and loose some anonymity, or use a new address and increase anonymity while loosing some convenience.


I'm confused as to why I shouldn't like Blockchain  Huh

I saying this in general for all online wallets, but it is hurting network health, it is making people open targets on there wealth if not properly backed up. It is holding a lot of funds which are rising in price, and people are using brute force attacks on looking for people who use alias wallet names and attacking there passwords search the forums. 2FA can save you but then if your not backing up your finished.

Most wallets will work fine for the day-to-day use of small amounts of bitcoin.  Think of it as a wallet, not a bank account.  Sure you can loose a wallet with cash in it, or it can be stolen from you.  You'll be upset, but not devastated.  If you are trying to store larger amounts of cash or for longer periods of time, then you need to start thinking about increasing reliability and security.  You probably wouldn't feel comfortable walking around with 1,000 $100 bills stuffed in your pockets.  You'd look for more secure and reliable ways to transport that money.

gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 22, 2013, 06:36:59 AM
 #56

1. Blockchain will never be able to access my wallet, correct? Even if a Gov't wanted Blockchain to give them access to my wallet, they couldn't, correct?
If you backup, but the government can shut down their servers and you even said people are lazy so you don't have a backup your done. Also you never know the NSA could have a super compter that can break the encryption, you never know, I don't know the exact way blockchain.info stores but if they get shutdown it isn't good.

Bah. If the NSA can break the encryption, then they can probably break the ECDSA keys and SHA-256 hashes built in to bitcoin.  At that point it no longer matters whether you are using blockchain or not.

I never said the NSA can break the ECDSA or SHA-256 we know that is currently implausible, but what about how blockchain.info is encrypting the wallet. as I said I don't know specifications of that but is certain plausible. 

Most wallets will work fine for the day-to-day use of small amounts of bitcoin.  Think of it as a wallet, not a bank account.  Sure you can loose a wallet with cash in it, or it can be stolen from you.  You'll be upset, but not devastated.  If you are trying to store larger amounts of cash or for longer periods of time, then you need to start thinking about increasing reliability and security.  You probably wouldn't feel comfortable walking around with 1,000 $100 bills stuffed in your pockets.  You'd look for more secure and reliable ways to transport that money.

You know people will use blockchain.info to hold 100's of coins, it will happen, it is already happening. I remember a post where someone had 40k Coins in a instawallet, LIKE SERIOUSLY COME ON... So don't think people will look for more secure ways.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
Kato
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 06:49:55 AM
 #57

Bitcoin and the services around it are evolving. Simplicity will improve over time.
pumawolf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 479



View Profile
March 22, 2013, 07:23:25 AM
 #58

all i need is the private key to back up my address , do i have to get down my address as well?
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
March 22, 2013, 07:25:59 AM
 #59

all i need is the private key to back up my address , do i have to get down my address as well?

Unless you want to hash the address each time you want people to send you funds. All the private key is allow you access to the address' funds.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
PimpBot5000
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 10


View Profile
March 22, 2013, 07:31:38 AM
 #60

Honestly, this is not an invalid issue. However, I think a lot of this is the demeanor of folks, not the technical issues. Just taking a patient attitude with people who are interested but confused. Occasionally, some ppl in the Bitcoin community can sound like cultists when explaining bitcoin to people, so I think telling people it's a financial opportunity that you can get on the ground floor of, while not trying to say it's going to replace the US dollar (even if it eventually might), is a better way to go about it, for a lot of ppl. You've got to play to the audience your talking to.

I guess I'm rambling here, but not everyone out there is a libertarian, but bitcoin is a currency that ideally should be for everyone, so sometimes you just have to play up the strengths of Bitcoin differently.
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!