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Author Topic: Only ETC is the real Ethereum  (Read 7998 times)
roselee
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August 19, 2016, 11:32:32 AM
 #121

@charleshoskinson, will that mean ETC will fork first before ETH does to get rid of the difficulty bomb? That would also be a good opportunity to fix the "replay attack" issue between the two chains. Your thoughts?

I am a miner. So it is good for the ETC or ETH to remove the difficulty time bomb. Any one does it first will get miners support.

The miners will just mine the most profitable coin. So if the price of ETH is high and even though ETC changes first, miners will mine ETH.

If the ETC keeps on being an PoW coin, I think the price can be higher as it has the support of the miners' community.
i thought not the price makes a coin profitablefor miners, its the difficulty ? low difficulty high reward ? or i am wrong?

and i thought etc is better there then eth but i am no miner




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August 31, 2016, 07:28:31 AM
 #122

@charleshoskinson, will that mean ETC will fork first before ETH does to get rid of the difficulty bomb? That would also be a good opportunity to fix the "replay attack" issue between the two chains. Your thoughts?

I am a miner. So it is good for the ETC or ETH to remove the difficulty time bomb. Any one does it first will get miners support.

The miners will just mine the most profitable coin. So if the price of ETH is high and even though ETC changes first, miners will mine ETH.

If the ETC keeps on being an PoW coin, I think the price can be higher as it has the support of the miners' community.
i thought not the price makes a coin profitablefor miners, its the difficulty ? low difficulty high reward ? or i am wrong?

and i thought etc is better there then eth but i am no miner


The profitability of ETC is quite similar to ETH. But the ETC price is dropping. So after you sell your ETC, you get less bitcoin.
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August 31, 2016, 08:15:09 AM
 #123

if ETC is the real Ethereum, then Ethereum is dying...
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September 04, 2016, 08:44:10 AM
 #124

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.
dinofelis
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September 04, 2016, 11:06:03 AM
 #125

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

amen.
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September 05, 2016, 02:21:06 AM
 #126

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

There are no Smart Contract vulnerabilties.  slock.it messed up on their code writing.  The vulnerabilties were that they did not protect their Dao.  

A bit like writing a cheque with the correct date and then signing it but leaving the value blank and then giving it to a homeless man.  Is it the bank to blame when the homeless man writes in his own value and goes to cash it out?  

But if the bank recalls all the cash and then issues new cash just to stop one homeless man taking advantage of the bloke who wrote the bad cheque, that could be seen as governance vulnerabilties don't you think?

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September 05, 2016, 02:37:14 AM
 #127

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

amen.
And today ETC's price going up on poloniex market, i think it is signal of a live for ETC after for long time ETC was dead and it is my chance making stock them. And i hope i can get profit.
greenuser
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September 05, 2016, 02:48:18 AM
 #128

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

amen.
And today ETC's price going up on poloniex market, i think it is signal of a live for ETC after for long time ETC was dead and it is my chance making stock them. And i hope i can get profit.

They have a new dapp so i think you will profit.


Nice tweet!
https://twitter.com/eth_classic/status/772043760071012352

Introducing https://minebox.io/
the first commercial Dapp developed on the ETC blockchain!
Buh Bye Dropbox...




 Cool



That's a good news, hoping to see more ETC Dapp's in the future.

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September 05, 2016, 03:18:40 AM
 #129

Is minebox a hardware solution? I got the impression that it is. Who would use and by something like that for personal use? Most of us are happy with our current cloud storage solutions. How can minebox convince us to use their product?

I am not optimistic with this idea for personal use. But maybe it could be useful for companies and enterprises.

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dinofelis
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September 05, 2016, 03:32:15 AM
 #130

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

There are no Smart Contract vulnerabilties.  slock.it messed up on their code writing.  The vulnerabilties were that they did not protect their Dao.  

A bit like writing a cheque with the correct date and then signing it but leaving the value blank and then giving it to a homeless man.  Is it the bank to blame when the homeless man writes in his own value and goes to cash it out?  

But if the bank recalls all the cash and then issues new cash just to stop one homeless man taking advantage of the bloke who wrote the bad cheque, that could be seen as governance vulnerabilties don't you think?

I agree with that principle.   And it is true that what failed was the DAO code, and ethereum "worked like a charm".  
But the DAO was written like normal software, on a normal software platform (ethereum).  Normal software, on normal software platforms, contains bugs and exploits if its complexity is a slight bit involved.   If we knew how to write complex code without bugs and exploits, we'd be doing it for more than 40 years.  Even the most talented and experienced software engineers, on platforms that they know like their pockets, make bugs and exploits.  That's unavoidable.  So what happened to the DAO was perfectly normal.
Now, what happens to normal software when bugs and exploits are discovered, is that one PUSHES A SECURITY UPDATE.  You can't do that with a smart contract.
After a while, as your software is used and tested in real world situations, it starts to be secure against bugs.  However, you will almost never know that it is secure against exploits.  The difference between a bug and an exploit is that the bug is the software not functioning correctly within the range of "normal user input".  As normal usage of the software samples more and more of the normal user input space, the statistical possibility of there to be a significant island of user input where the software fails and not having been sampled yet, becomes smaller and smaller.  That's why software that is used a lot, becomes more and more bug free (unless new features are added to it): the space of normal user input is sampled more and more.  So "old stable software" is essentially bug free.

However, an exploit is a bad functioning of the software OUTSIDE of the normal user input, looked for on purpose by someone desiring the software not to function properly.  The exploit lifetime is much much longer than the bug lifetime, simply because:
1) the space of possible "abnormal" user inputs is way bigger than the space of normal user input
2) that space is not sampled by normal users
3) that abnormal user input goes against the abstract logic of the software, and so during software engineering, everything is done so that the programmer DOES NOT think of these illogical cases.

As such, the dev crew is probably "brainwashed" NOT to discover their own exploits.  Finding exploits needs a "hacker's mindset".

The "exploit space" is only sampled by real hackers, having a real mobile to hack.  You can only protect yourself up to a certain level of "hacker's competence" by demanding an external audit.

But the whole point is that all these things are nuisances in normal software because normal software needs to be immensely flexible, and consider immensely different usage cases.  This is why software platforms are very versatile, and it is this flexibility that allows for all these "unexpected" cases.

A contract is normally much simpler.  We've seen with the banking crisis that it is NOT a good idea to allow for very complicated contracts.  Normally, as a general guideline, *you should only sign a contract when you've understood ALL FINE PRINT*.   That means that the terms of a contract shouldn't be too complicated in general.

As such, the "state tree" of a contract should be finite and sufficiently limited that the person signing up can have a complete overview of it: "If this happens, that clause is valid ; if that happens, that clause is valid ; finally if not this but that happens, at that moment, that clause is valid" should be ENTIRELY CLEAR to the signer.

The terms of a smart contract are hence much simpler than the entire statespace of general software.  If not, things go wrong, in the same way as the real estate security swaps went wrong.  There's no good reason to have contracts with very involved state spaces.

And IF we can have limited state spaces, then we CAN prove that a certain piece of software will ONLY implement such a state tree, on the condition that the platform is *designed that way*, with provability in mind.  It is automatically not Turing complete.

This is what ethereum is not.  This is why, even though it was the DAO code that was buggy, the ethereum platform, running like a charm, was the cause of it: it is a normal software platform, on which complicated, and hence buggy and exploitable code, is going to be designed.  The DAO was the first example of it.  Making a software platform that allows easily, like all software platforms, to make bugs and exploits, but in a system (smart contracts) that doesn't even allow for security updates to be pushed, with money at stake, and "open to the world" (not running on airgapped computers in physically protected rooms) is recipe for disaster.

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September 05, 2016, 03:37:29 AM
 #131

Is minebox a hardware solution? I got the impression that it is. Who would use and by something like that for personal use? Most of us are happy with our current cloud storage solutions. How can minebox convince us to use their product?

I am not optimistic with this idea for personal use. But maybe it could be useful for companies and enterprises.

Is this something like freenet for money ?
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September 05, 2016, 03:58:55 AM
 #132

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

amen.
And today ETC's price going up on poloniex market, i think it is signal of a live for ETC after for long time ETC was dead and it is my chance making stock them. And i hope i can get profit.
ETC's price going up is actually a common trading activities,it's just an ordinary pump as usual,any coin could being pumped like this,and as long the coin still in the exchanger or having marketplace can't be considered as dead,the trading volume keep going on

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greenuser
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September 05, 2016, 04:01:03 AM
Last edit: September 05, 2016, 04:19:00 AM by greenuser
 #133

Is minebox a hardware solution? I got the impression that it is. Who would use and by something like that for personal use? Most of us are happy with our current cloud storage solutions. How can minebox convince us to use their product?

I am not optimistic with this idea for personal use. But maybe it could be useful for companies and enterprises.

Is this something like freenet for money ?

Minebox Dapp....   Decenteralized Storage of intellectual property?  The storage is tide to the blockchain and timestamped.  So you can store software, music, video, books, photos you have made prior to publishing, thus giving you a form of copywrite and proof of ownership, like proof it was your idea first?

Moreover, you can turn all your old HHDs in to mining hardware.  You offer your spare storage space up to the network and get paid ETC or fiat.  No new hardware other than to get yourself some caddies to house all those old harddrives you have kicking around, hook them up to your PC and run the Minebox software to link you to the Ethereum Classic Blockchain and wait for the coin to roll in?

Peer to Peer storage so your files are encrypted and distributed over nodes/HHD hosts in the network.  Sounds like a good backup plan!  Wink


greenuser
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September 05, 2016, 04:05:20 AM
 #134

“I had the pleasure of learning about minebox with the team in Vienna. I told them I wanted to be their first customer;
this is a phenomenal solution for decentralizing all the things”

Erik Voorhees CEO of Shapshift quoted from website https://minebox.io/

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September 05, 2016, 06:12:37 AM
 #135

Is minebox a hardware solution? I got the impression that it is. Who would use and by something like that for personal use? Most of us are happy with our current cloud storage solutions. How can minebox convince us to use their product?

I am not optimistic with this idea for personal use. But maybe it could be useful for companies and enterprises.

Is this something like freenet for money ?

Minebox Dapp....   Decenteralized Storage of intellectual property?  The storage is tide to the blockchain and timestamped.  So you can store software, music, video, books, photos you have made prior to publishing, thus giving you a form of copywrite and proof of ownership, like proof it was your idea first?

Moreover, you can turn all your old HHDs in to mining hardware.  You offer your spare storage space up to the network and get paid ETC or fiat.  No new hardware other than to get yourself some caddies to house all those old harddrives you have kicking around, hook them up to your PC and run the Minebox software to link you to the Ethereum Classic Blockchain and wait for the coin to roll in?

Peer to Peer storage so your files are encrypted and distributed over nodes/HHD hosts in the network.  Sounds like a good backup plan!  Wink



Is this something similar to Siacoin or Storj? How is Minebox better than the two already mentioned and what makes it different?

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greenuser
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September 05, 2016, 08:12:35 AM
 #136

Is minebox a hardware solution? I got the impression that it is. Who would use and by something like that for personal use? Most of us are happy with our current cloud storage solutions. How can minebox convince us to use their product?

I am not optimistic with this idea for personal use. But maybe it could be useful for companies and enterprises.

Is this something like freenet for money ?

Minebox Dapp....   Decenteralized Storage of intellectual property?  The storage is tide to the blockchain and timestamped.  So you can store software, music, video, books, photos you have made prior to publishing, thus giving you a form of copywrite and proof of ownership, like proof it was your idea first?

Moreover, you can turn all your old HHDs in to mining hardware.  You offer your spare storage space up to the network and get paid ETC or fiat.  No new hardware other than to get yourself some caddies to house all those old harddrives you have kicking around, hook them up to your PC and run the Minebox software to link you to the Ethereum Classic Blockchain and wait for the coin to roll in?

Peer to Peer storage so your files are encrypted and distributed over nodes/HHD hosts in the network.  Sounds like a good backup plan!  Wink



Is this something similar to Siacoin or Storj? How is Minebox better than the two already mentioned and what makes it different?

So you are trying to trick me right?  IMMUTABILIY silly!  It's classic.

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September 05, 2016, 08:14:22 AM
 #137

dev ethereum eth is declare say with statment
ethereum classic is ETC diference with etherum ETH
so etc only new coin difference ETH, community ethereum still follow ETH not migration to ETC
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September 05, 2016, 09:01:59 AM
 #138

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

amen.
And today ETC's price going up on poloniex market, i think it is signal of a live for ETC after for long time ETC was dead and it is my chance making stock them. And i hope i can get profit.
ETC's price going up is actually a common trading activities,it's just an ordinary pump as usual,any coin could being pumped like this,and as long the coin still in the exchanger or having marketplace can't be considered as dead,the trading volume keep going on
The terms die for ETC is mean price going down and The terms a live for ETC is mean price going up, i just follow the terms from another users who start it and it is not realy dead or a live.
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September 05, 2016, 11:32:03 AM
 #139

Is minebox a hardware solution? I got the impression that it is. Who would use and by something like that for personal use? Most of us are happy with our current cloud storage solutions. How can minebox convince us to use their product?

I am not optimistic with this idea for personal use. But maybe it could be useful for companies and enterprises.

Is this something like freenet for money ?

Minebox Dapp....   Decenteralized Storage of intellectual property?  The storage is tide to the blockchain and timestamped.  So you can store software, music, video, books, photos you have made prior to publishing, thus giving you a form of copywrite and proof of ownership, like proof it was your idea first?

Moreover, you can turn all your old HHDs in to mining hardware.  You offer your spare storage space up to the network and get paid ETC or fiat.  No new hardware other than to get yourself some caddies to house all those old harddrives you have kicking around, hook them up to your PC and run the Minebox software to link you to the Ethereum Classic Blockchain and wait for the coin to roll in?

Peer to Peer storage so your files are encrypted and distributed over nodes/HHD hosts in the network.  Sounds like a good backup plan!  Wink



Is this something similar to Siacoin or Storj? How is Minebox better than the two already mentioned and what makes it different?

So you are trying to trick me right?  IMMUTABILIY silly!  It's classic.


Immutability? Are you saying Siacoin and Storj are not immutable? I am only asking for what makes minebox better than Siacoin or Storj. It would be really appreciated by everyone to be shown the features of minebox and to compare it with both platforms.

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September 05, 2016, 11:49:14 AM
 #140

So you are trying to trick me right?  IMMUTABILIY silly!  It's classic.

I went looking at the site, but I couldn't find the *price* of such a box.  They tell you how much you can make (in Euro) per month if you can have your box running, but:
1) how much does the box itself cost ?
2) how do they know the price if that's market-determined ?

The idea is not bad, but I don't understand why this must run on ethereum, hence fixing the price of the contract in ethereum with all its volatility.  It would have been better if there were a specific storage token, that is mined offering (provable) storage, and bought by people wanting storage, so that it has its own market.
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