Another closed door Core - Chinese miners meeting

[pawel7777]

Just came accross this article:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoins-price-falls-miners-meet-bitcoin-core-developers/

Anyone has any details of the meeting? Who participated? Has another "consensus" been reached?

Edit:

More details:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-miners-and-developers-meet-in-california-to-improve-communications-1470158657

[CoinBreader]

Big players meeting and ofc info shared with whales the big ones.. or maybe no whales on their group but whales start playing a little and try to spread\create FUD ? It's not going to be the first time ..
Anyhow I wonder also about their agenda .. increase the fee for miners support?? For future halving... lol
Anyhow let the big miners go and let's fire up our  red fury s again!! It's gonna be my pleasure to support Btc network again !😉

[franky1]

the meeting was initially to try and resolve the matter and kick luke Jr up the arse to hurry up with the
MAX_BLOCK_BASE_SIZE = 2000000;
version of core (segwit AND 2mb mainblock)

but it was then twisted by devs into a "no we are not roundtabling any discussions or setting targets/timscales, its just a social event "
basically the weeks it took to organize people to turn up, turned into a waste of time due to nothing concrete being agreed to YET AGAIN!!!

its like saying you are taking someone to court to get them to pay a debt due back in april.. but then the person in debt hires a courtroom. puts strippers and a casino machine in there and says, well we came to court but your still not getting our money, but thanks for the party, see you next year

initially it was:
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-industry-seeking-bridge-scaling-divide-july-meeting/


which got twisted into
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-industry-seeking-bridge-scaling-divide-july-meeting/

seems blockstream took over the "organising" and changed the agenda from agenda, to PARTY!!

[European Central Bank]

why the hell would a busy Chinese miner fly thousands of miles to socialize with a bunch of neckbeards? can they actually speak out loud? if I were a miner i'd bring some huge Mongolians to watch the door and no one's allowed out until something's hammered out.

[franky1]

why the hell would a busy Chinese miner fly thousands of miles to socialize with a bunch of neckbeards? can they actually speak out loud? if I were a miner i'd bring some huge Mongolians to watch the door and no one's allowed out until something's hammered out.

exactly. a waste of time event.

[manselr]

Whatever happens, I hope the lesson is learned and people stop asking to rush a hard fork and let Core devs continue making making a great job.

[Kprawn]

Well, I hope we gonna get a piece of that party also, or are we excluded from the big picture? The Chinese miners should not steer the direction of any decisions being made by the Core developers or

anything to do with the development of Bitcoin. Even if they have the biggest share of the hashing power, they still do not have the power to influence developers. There are too many other roleplayers

involved in Bitcoin for them to make the decisions.

[franky1]

the only "cry" is that dvelopers say no to the fork due to saying its bad for the network and would hurt the network due to the chinese firewall..
yet.. its the chinese that are asking for the increased buffer..

the other flipside kprawn is that developers should not prevent hard forks if the community want them. and instead do all they can to allow open choice for the whole community.

developers restricting choice and causing controversy is just as bad for the community as a low consensus hard fork would be.

either way the core 2mb code should be released and then leave it for the community to download and show a high percentage node upgrade, then miners can start flagging their blocks to show their desire.. and if all shows promising numbers.. it happens.

prevention via dictatorship is cores method of doing things.
they have proven this by taking over the organizing of the meeting and changing the purpose of the meeting.

so far core has just wasted a year, irritating people purely to show they are a centralist power base.

if core wants to pretend they have no decision making process to allow a fork. then they should also have no decision power to prevent it either.. but wait they do... so they are.. looks like they do have power

dont try to deny it.

all in all, the only thing i care about is luke jr releasing core code (no trojans added to be nefarious) with MAX_BLOCK_BASE_SIZE = 2000000;

then all the implementations in existence can be on a level playing field and no controversy

[Superbitzz]

why the hell would a busy Chinese miner fly thousands of miles to socialize with a bunch of neckbeards? can they actually speak out loud? if I were a miner i'd bring some huge Mongolians to watch the door and no one's allowed out until something's hammered out.

exactly. a waste of time event.

no i dont think so, if they have really call meeting then it really carry meaning because the chines miner can really effect bitcoin overnight , i think if they stop mining for one week you will see the panic in the bitcoin market, therefore we should give value to their meeting and must do analysis of their meeting.

[Cuidler]

no i dont think so, if they have really call meeting then it really carry meaning because the chines miner can really effect bitcoin overnight , i think if they stop mining for one week you will see the panic in the bitcoin market, therefore we should give value to their meeting and must do analysis of their meeting.

They would never stop mining for one week, or even just create empty blocks for one week. The price is too important for them, and they not going to drop the price themselves.

What I dont understand how you meet the core when you cant meet all those core members. You might meet few, but the other core members going to say it was just the few other core members opinion, but not mine. Well it looks its going to be informative meeting (no deals anymore), so hopefully no misunderstandings anymore.

[rizzlarolla]

why the hell would a busy Chinese miner fly thousands of miles to socialize with a bunch of neckbeards? can they actually speak out loud? if I were a miner i'd bring some huge Mongolians to watch the door and no one's allowed out until something's hammered out.

exactly. a waste of time event.

no i dont think so, if they have really call meeting then it really carry meaning because the chines miner can really effect bitcoin overnight , i think if they stop mining for one week you will see the panic in the bitcoin market, therefore we should give value to their meeting and must do analysis of their meeting.

Franky get spammed! 

[franky1]

lol superbitzz sorry but the "meeting" is no longer a meeting. but a closed door PARTY.
you know alcohol, food and geks dancing..

it was intented as a meeting to get to a proper proposed agreement with the main core developers (salaried by blockstream directly or indirectly) after all you should not consider all 120 contributors as devs.. some "contributors" just do spell checks on the guides and discuss stuff.. the main PROGRAMMERS of core and miners were suppose to discuss the controversy over why core is delaying delaying delaying and to set some goals..

but as i said now blockstream guys took over organizing it, they have changed the agenda and wasted everyones time and travel costs just to party..

dont expect any plans, target dates or ETA's to come out of it.. just some pictures of people smiling with a drink in their hands like some publicity stunt that the "community" is agreeing that the status quo is as it should be.

[groll]

lol superbitzz sorry but the "meeting" is no longer a meeting. but a closed door PARTY.
you know alcohol, food and geks dancing..

it was intented as a meeting to get to a proper proposed agreement with the main core developers (salaried by blockstream directly or indirectly) after all you should not consider all 120 contributors as devs.. some "contributors" just do spell checks on the guides and discuss stuff.. the main PROGRAMMERS of core and miners were suppose to discuss the controversy over why core is delaying delaying delaying and to set some goals..

but as i said now blockstream guys took over organizing it, they have changed the agenda and wasted everyones time and travel costs just to party..

dont expect any plans, target dates or ETA's to come out of it.. just some pictures of people smiling with a drink in their hands like some publicity stunt that the "community" is agreeing that the status quo is as it should be.

This post would likely caused some bitcoiners to freak out, well its nice that you have mentioned these things otherwise there will be many speculations that will go out in this forum. FUrther, China has caught the attention of the bitcoin users around the world and their presence has already brought some many misconceptions about the market and bitcoins.

[Lauda]

Not this again. Don't they know that these kind of meetings are actually counter-intuitive when it comes to Bitcoin? I'd understand it, and it would be a big problem if it was transparent.

Well it looks its going to be informative meeting (no deals anymore), so hopefully no misunderstandings anymore.

How could you expect that when there's an entire subreddit dedicated to spreading false information (most of the time)? They've started another wave of attack since the HK agreement was breached by Core according to them (even though some of the miners broke it very early one).
I've just noticed that the link seems to be dead now.

[Kakmakr]

I am a optimist and I think any communication is better than no communication, even if this is behind closed doors. It would be better if it was open to the public, but then open communication would be stopping some people from genuine constructive inputs, because they will play the camera and not the topic at hand.

Let's see how this turns out, before we start to pull out the pitchforks and start throwing the stones.   

[Lauda]

I am a optimist and I think any communication is better than no communication, even if this is behind closed doors.

Optimist? Then you have a very wrong and naive view of the world. A closed-door meeting should be among the things that are frowned upon by the Bitcoin community.

It would be better if it was open to the public, but then open communication would be stopping some people from genuine constructive inputs, because they will play the camera and not the topic at hand.

There's really no way in which a closed-doors meeting is better than an open one. Even just posting some live updates via twitter or reddit would be much better than what we have now.

Let's see how this turns out, before we start to pull out the pitchforks and start throwing the stones.  

There are already people doing that at /r/btc.

[beastmodeBiscuitGravy]

I am a optimist and I think any communication is better than no communication, even if this is behind closed doors.

Optimist? Then you have a very wrong and naive view of the world. A closed-door meeting should be among the things that are frowned upon by the Bitcoin community.

Agreed. Can you tell your friends at Core to stop doing it?

It would be better if it was open to the public, but then open communication would be stopping some people from genuine constructive inputs, because they will play the camera and not the topic at hand.

There's really no way in which a closed-doors meeting is better than an open one. Even just posting some live updates via twitter or reddit would be much better than what we have now.

Yes, agree again, the ham-fisted way in which this FOMC meeting social event was conducted has sliced 10% off the Bitcoin price so far.

[Lauda]

Agreed. Can you tell your friends at Core to stop doing it?

I don't have a singular friend that contributes to Core. I'd say that I have as much influence as you do. Keep in mind that there have been other individuals that have initiated closed-door meetings in the past (an example would be Garzik and the miners IIRC).

Yes, agree again, the ham-fisted way in which this FOMC meeting social event was conducted has sliced 10% off the Bitcoin price so far.

No. That's not necessarily the cause, although I'm certain that some people would like to paint that picture.

[gmaxwell]

They came out to meet with many parties in the area, in fact. You just hear about it in this case.  The meeting was mostly social-- discussing our common passion (Bitcoin) and trying to improve communication.   I think notes are going to be posted, in fact, because we're dweebs like that.

I thought it was really positive-- and good to meet up with people face to face that I'd only talked with in email before.

The Bitcoin industry seriously needs better communication-- especially crossing language and cultural barriers-- rather than hot comments on social media. Improved communication will lead to fewer potential avenues for miscommunication and better cooperation in the future.  Don't buy into rbtc fud.

[franky1]

They came out to meet with many parties in the area, in fact. You just hear about it in this case.  The meeting was mostly social-- discussing our common passion (Bitcoin) and trying to improve communication.   I think notes are going to be posted, in fact, because we're dweebs like that.

I thought it was really positive-- and good to meet up with people face to face that I'd only talked with in email before.

The Bitcoin industry seriously needs better communication-- especially crossing language and cultural barriers-- rather than hot comments on social media. Improved communication will lead to fewer potential avenues for miscommunication and better cooperation in the future.  Don't buy into rbtc fud.

you improve communications by actually communicating. not saying that certain things wont be discussed or agreed to

from what i see, your boss and his employees and friends turned a meeting scheduled to communicate and find some agreement to bitcoin consensus, and twisted it into a party where certain topics wont be agreed on (literally avoiding communication of topics) and instead putting drinks into peoples hands to make them talk about off topic stuff.

gmaxwell please tell your boss that miners want the extra buffer, known technically in core as: MAX_BLOCK_BASE_SIZE = 2000000;
and that talking about it was the whole point of spending travel costs
tell him this..  as telling him is a form of communication

then answer this..

will you personally accept a Core implementation with MAX_BLOCK_BASE_SIZE = 2000000; in it. wrote by one of your colleagues
or will you prefer to comunicate to your friends and colleagues to start up another REKT campaign to push a core contributor out of bitcoin-core dev team like what happened with hearn, gavin and garzic

all i really need to know and have you reply to is
1. "yes i will support MAX_BLOCK_BASE_SIZE = 2000000; but only if there are no 'trojan'/bugs added elsewhere in the code"
2. "no i wont support MAX_BLOCK_BASE_SIZE = 2000000; and will REKT Luke JR because its not the direction i want bitcoin to go in"

i have even numbered it to help you stay on point and reply with least effort and cost to your time.