Mr. Lutpin and the Betcoin incident

[Wendigo]

Okay so I would like to publicly ask whether or not Mr. Lutpin and his cohorts are going to fulfill this threatening post because I don't want to be the subject of abuse for something I have no control over:

Mr. Lutpin's words:

I consider leaving negative feedback for advertising betcoin.ag, a company deeply in trouble currently,
with many unresolved scam accusations, a yet not completely resolved upset about a jackpot including BetSoft, which resulted in a player receiving several houndreds BTC less than he was due, with a way to avoid questions that could make them look worse, with a way to answer to my questions that essentially says "give negs to others aswell, if you give us".

Yes I like the terms of Betcoin's signature campaign and no I don't play on their site so why should I be moving when I am happy with where I am now?


So what's it gonna be because I don't want to wake up to retaliatory negative feedback? I don't condone arm-twisting either.

Are you going through with that threat or not?

Answer now so current & future members will know what to do.

[NeuroticFish]

There are many that believe that if you promote a scam, you can be considered scammer.
And honestly, they are not that far from truth in my opinion too. Just sit back and think about it like it would not be about you, I am sur you'd understand this point of view.

Now, a feedback rating is .. personal. If one think that you deserve a green, you'll get his green; if somebody thinks that you deserve a red, he'll give you red.
People can read the reasoning behind your feedback rating and think for themselves if you deserved it or not.


I believe that the way you started this thread will not help you.
Try to find out more about that site you are advertising, try to discuss nicely with your opponents and .. try to make the correct choice.


I hope that this helped.

[Lauda]

Step 1) Stop promoting shady and/or scamy businesses (I don't want to get into the details of whether it is or isn't one) in your signature.
Step 2) Enjoy a life free of drama.
Do you really need the money that badly? Just join another campaign if you have to. Note: This doesn't really fit into Meta.

[Wendigo]

Step 1) Stop promoting shady and/or scamy businesses (I don't want to get into the details of whether it is or isn't one) in your signature.
Step 2) Enjoy a life free of drama.
Do you really need the money that badly? Just join another campaign if you have to. Note: This doesn't really fit into Meta.

First off I wasn't aware of any scam accusations against this website when I joined 2 months ago.
Second of all I don't need the money THAT badly and it looks like you are getting a far better remuneration package off this forum than me so I don't understand why you involved money matters in this question of mine when clearly this has nothing to do with it.

This thread wouldn't have even existed if there hadn't been a threat towards me in the first place. I can join another campaign no biggie but I don't want to swim in the illiterate cesspool of nonsense that some of the others literally are just to rake up some pennies for the weekly or monthly pittance they are offering.

[Lauda]

First off I wasn't aware of any scam accusations against this website when I joined 2 months ago.

Neither was I, at the time when I joined. I ended up being a participant for less than 10 days (IIRC) in July.

Second of all I don't need the money THAT badly and it looks like you are getting a far better remuneration package off this forum than me so I don't understand why you involved money matters in this question of mine when clearly this has nothing to do with it.

I simply asked a question, there's nothing more to it. Putting money aside, what would your primary reason be for promoting a business with 'shady practices'?

This thread wouldn't have even existed if there hadn't been a threat towards me in the first place. I can join another campaign no biggie but I don't want to slim in the illiterate cesspool of nonsense that some of the others literally are just to rake up some pennies for the weekly or monthly pittance they are offering.

You should take it as a friendly warning from DT members. Generally, the issue isn't just black and white and there's more to it. The last time that I've checked, a DT2 member was also wearing their signature at the time (they did not have negative trust though).

[Wendigo]

You know I actually don't have the nerves for this nonsense I will just quit 

[Lauda]

You know I actually don't have the nerves for this nonsense I will just quit 

There you have it. I had originally suggested this in step 2:

Step 2) Enjoy a life free of drama.

It wasn't worth my time, and I'll assume it isn't worth yours either (the potential drama).

[shorena]

Id like to state the following publicly here since it came up and I might be considered one of Lutpin's 'cohorts'[1].

From what I read and found myself searching around betcoin.ag they are in deep trouble due to the way their software supplier did not honor a jackpot. They handled the situation, but rather poorly. There are also plenty other unresolved issues. Thus I think a warning was needed. I personally would not advertise for them and get out of a contract ASAP. Other people will come to their own conclusions and it can be different from my own. I will not add negative rating to participants for advertising the casino, but it will probably have a lasting impression on me. Not that I believe many care about that.

[1] to think it used to be the other way around. They grow up so fast.

[botany]

Now, a feedback rating is .. personal. If one think that you deserve a green, you'll get his green; if somebody thinks that you deserve a red, he'll give you red.
People can read the reasoning behind your feedback rating and think for themselves if you deserved it or not.

Not when you are on default trust.
People may not be able to question your feedback, but they may question whether you deserve to be on default trust.

[Xiaoxiao]

There are many that believe that if you promote a scam, you can be considered scammer.
And honestly, they are not that far from truth in my opinion too. Just sit back and think about it like it would not be about you, I am sur you'd understand this point of view.

Now, a feedback rating is .. personal. If one think that you deserve a green, you'll get his green; if somebody thinks that you deserve a red, he'll give you red.
People can read the reasoning behind your feedback rating and think for themselves if you deserved it or not.


I believe that the way you started this thread will not help you.
Try to find out more about that site you are advertising, try to discuss nicely with your opponents and .. try to make the correct choice.


I hope that this helped.

Calling them a "scam" is unfair.  They've never mismanagement any type of player cashout or funds in the past.  They have been a bit unorganized and lacked staff which was why the animosity grew between some players and management.  Scam sites in the gaming world cannot get the connections they have: WPN Tournaments and software, Sports provider, and several casino providers.

[thesame12]

There are many that believe that if you promote a scam, you can be considered scammer.
And honestly, they are not that far from truth in my opinion too. Just sit back and think about it like it would not be about you, I am sur you'd understand this point of view.

Now, a feedback rating is .. personal. If one think that you deserve a green, you'll get his green; if somebody thinks that you deserve a red, he'll give you red.
People can read the reasoning behind your feedback rating and think for themselves if you deserved it or not.


I believe that the way you started this thread will not help you.
Try to find out more about that site you are advertising, try to discuss nicely with your opponents and .. try to make the correct choice.


I hope that this helped.

Calling them a "scam" is unfair.  They've never mismanagement any type of player cashout or funds in the past.  They have been a bit unorganized and lacked staff which was why the animosity grew between some players and management.  Scam sites in the gaming world cannot get the connections they have: WPN Tournaments and software, Sports provider, and several casino providers.

Casino providers? Here's a hint: Bovoda took down betsoft, as did many other casinos after hearing about the problems betsoft has been having. While I wouldn't exactly call betcoin a "scam", I'd call them shady,

[The Sceptical Chymist]

What am I missing here?  I admit it's late in the day and me eyes is tired, but 1) I don't see a threat and 2) I don't see negative feedback by Lutpin on OP.

I had no idea betcoin was in trouble either, but I'm not in their sig campaign and I've never used their service and I don't even follow crypto news much.  If they're proven, or even highly suspected to be scamming then I'd say people should be given warning to remove the signature if that's the issue.  Some of the campaigners might be ignorant of the facts and not intentionally promoting a scam.  I was ready to ditch Yobit in a NY minute if I got wind of a credible scam accusation.  Either way, this needs to be worked out with Lutpin.  All you're going to get here are zillions of opinions, not all of which are going to help you.

Edit:  Wendigo, I realize you're frustrated but I wouldn't just quit.  Stuff can be resolved, and Lutpin is from what I've observed, fair and level-headed.

[Quickseller]

From what I read and found myself searching around betcoin.ag they are in deep trouble due to the way their software supplier did not honor a jackpot. They handled the situation, but rather poorly. There are also plenty other unresolved issues. Thus I think a warning was needed. I personally would not advertise for them and get out of a contract ASAP. Other people will come to their own conclusions and it can be different from my own. I will not add negative rating to participants for advertising the casino, but it will probably have a lasting impression on me. Not that I believe many care about that.

I do agree that betcoin.ag is at best a very shady site, and more realistically an outright scam site who selectively scams it's players. I also agree that it is probably best not to advertise for betcoin.ag, and I would not personally advertise for them, even if that meant loosing out financially (eg not receiving a payment for signature advertising for some period of time).

I do not think that the scam surrounding betcoin.ag has reached the point that negative trust is appropriate for anyone that advertises for them. I don't think there is a clear line as to when negative trust is appropriate when advertising a scam site however I don't think betcoin.ag has crossed this line. Regardless, in my experience, all it will take to get someone to stop advertising a shady site is a simple PM letting them know about your concerns about them advertising the shady/scam website.

I also think it is outright ridiculous to say that people can advertise for a scam site until they get paid next; that is not doing anything other then trying to show others "who is in charge".

First off I wasn't aware of any scam accusations against this website when I joined 2 months ago.

Neither was I, at the time when I joined. I ended up being a participant for less than 10 days (IIRC) in July.

This is a lie. You were aware of scam accusations about betcoin.ag back in March:

I think its wrong to manage ad campaign and try to keep the members from knowing truth about business they advertise for.  
Every accusation against betcoin is backed up with evidence.

Well, IMO posting that in their signature campaign is not right. From what I see there is already an on-going scam accusation against them to which they are not responding to. If there is adequate amount of evidence, then it would be best to contact people from DT as they might mark the service (if they have an account) or the promoted with negative trust.
Note: I have not looked closely into the accusation and can't say whether it is valid or not.

According to this thread, you were also told by multiple people about why you should not advertise betcoin.ag on multiple occasions, over multiple days. You only left the campaign after you received a lot of public pressure to cease advertising for them. Prior to receiving this public pressure, you make it well known that checking if betcoin.ag is shady/a scam was very low on your priority list after you started advertising for them.

[Lauda]

This is a lie. You were aware of scam accusations about betcoin.ag back in March:

No. I replied once and the thread died pretty quickly afterwards. I obviously memorize every single thread that I have ever responded to.

Prior to receiving this public pressure, you make it well known that checking if betcoin.ag is shady/a scam was very low on your priority list after you started advertising for them.

It was on low priority as they did not have negative trust at the time, because I have better things to do unlike some escrow scammers.

What am I missing here?  I admit it's late in the day and me eyes is tired, but 1) I don't see a threat and 2) I don't see negative feedback by Lutpin on OP.
I had no idea betcoin was in trouble either, but I'm not in their sig campaign and I've never used their service and I don't even follow crypto news much.  If they're proven, or even highly suspected to be scamming then I'd say people should be given warning to remove the signature if that's the issue.  Some of the campaigners might be ignorant of the facts and not intentionally promoting a scam.

If you plan to get 'into it' then you've got a lot of reading to do. The accusations against the website in question have started a few months back (possibly earlier) and it wasn't until July that they've received negative trust (from several DT members).

[Quickseller]

This is a lie. You were aware of scam accusations about betcoin.ag back in March:

No. I replied once and the thread died pretty quickly afterwards. I obviously memorize every single thread that I have ever responded to.

You still cannot honestly claim that you were never aware of any scam accusacations against betcoin when you joined their signature campaign.

Prior to receiving this public pressure, you make it well known that checking if betcoin.ag is shady/a scam was very low on your priority list after you started advertising for them.

It was on low priority as they did not have negative trust at the time, because I have better things to do

1) saying that betcoin.ag did not have negative trust at the time is another lie. Betcoin.ag received negative trust from Lutpin on July 5, 2016, and the thread calling you out for advertising a scam was opened 4 days later on July 9. The first PM you received from twitchyseal was sent on July 7, a full 2 days after betcoin.ag first received negative trust from Lutpin.

2) I know that you would much rather spend your time attempting to extort people

3) If you are unable, or unwilling to spend the little amount of time it takes to investigate if the website you are advertising is a scam/is shady, then this says a lot about how you value your reputation.

[Lauda]

You still cannot honestly claim that you were never aware of any scam accusacations against betcoin when you joined their signature campaign.

Of course I can, because I wasn't.

1) saying that betcoin.ag did not have negative trust at the time is another lie.

Yawn; this is just another attempt at manipulation yet another story. They did not have any neg. rating at the time that I joined/was contacted.

2) I know that you would much rather spend your time attempting to extort people

That's obviously what I do with my free time. I guess it's still better than account farming and trying to launch group attacks versus various known individuals (all of which ultimately failed). I wonder what kind of person does this 

3) If you are unable, or unwilling to spend the little amount of time it takes to investigate if the website you are advertising is a scam/is shady, then this says a lot about how you value your reputation.

I'm unwilling to waste my time on escrow scammers and their nonsense. Additionally:

Regardless, in my experience, all it will take to get someone to stop advertising a shady site is a simple PM letting them know about your concerns about them advertising the shady/scam website.

is bullshit.
Here you go again, pushing the story away from OP. How about sticking to the actual topic?

[Quickseller]

You still cannot honestly claim that you were never aware of any scam accusacations against betcoin when you joined their signature campaign.

Of course I can, because I wasn't.

Except that you actively discussed a scam accusation against them. 

1) saying that betcoin.ag did not have negative trust at the time is another lie.

Yawn; this is just another attempt at manipulation yet another story. They did not have any neg. rating at the time that I joined/was contacted.

This is another lie Lauda. You joined in the evening UTC on July 5th, which is the same day Lutpin sent negative trust, and I have reason to believe he sent the negative trust prior to you posting that you have joined. I know that you are going to come back and say that you received an invitation from them prior to this, but that is a BS excuse.

There was also accusations of their shady business practices on the prior page to where you posted that you had joined the campaign, and there was an active scam accusation against them as of when you joined.   

2) I know that you would much rather spend your time attempting to extort people

That's obviously what I do with my free time. I guess it's still better than account farming and trying to launch group attacks versus various known individuals (all of which ultimately failed). I wonder what kind of person does this

Your ad hominem attacks reflect your lack of maturity and your lack of an argument to stand on. 

3) If you are unable, or unwilling to spend the little amount of time it takes to investigate if the website you are advertising is a scam/is shady, then this says a lot about how you value your reputation.

I'm unwilling to waste my time on escrow scammers and their nonsense.

More ad hominem attacks showing your immaturity. Nevertheless, numerous people had sent you messages asking you to remove your betcoin.ag signature, none of which are claimed to be me.

Regardless, in my experience, all it will take to get someone to stop advertising a shady site is a simple PM letting them know about your concerns about them advertising the shady/scam website.

is bullshit.

Nope. You see that people actually care if they are advertising something that might lead to others loosing their money.

[Lauda]

Except that you actively discussed a scam accusation against them.  

"Note: I have not looked closely into the accusation and can't say whether it is valid or not.". In your weird world this means "actively".

This is another lie Lauda. You joined in the evening UTC on July 5th, which is the same day Lutpin sent negative trust, and I have reason to believe he sent the negative trust prior to you posting that you have joined.

False. The only person that is lying here is you. I had joined very early on that day (UTC), prior to noon. When I posted on that thread is irrelevant.

Your ad hominem attacks reflect your lack of maturity and your lack of an argument to stand on.  

It has nothing to do with ad hominem when we are talking about facts.

More ad hominem attacks showing your immaturity. Nevertheless, numerous people had sent you messages asking you to remove your betcoin.ag signature, none of which are claimed to be me.

Again, another fact. If by "numerous" you mean 1, then yes.

Nope. You see that people actually care if they are advertising something that might lead to others loosing their money.

This makes it obvious that you know nothing. I advise you to take a closer look at the list of participants again.

[Xenophoto]

This guy, game-protect has put a negative feedback on all the signature campaign participants while low-key promoting his own website. See his sent feedback here. The reference goes to his scammy website. Funny because after all these battles in the said scam accusation, we'll get a negative trust from a scammer.

If I may add into this discussion, I have PMed Lutpin about this days ago asking if he's still going to put a red trust on us and this was his reply to me:

I probably won't go through with it, however,
I still consider Betcoin a company none should advertise.

[Lauda]

This guy, game-protect has put a negative feedback on all the signature campaign participants while low-key promoting his own website.

I've noticed this already as someone had informed me earlier. It doesn't really matter much as their negative feedback does not have an effect on the trust ratings.

I probably won't go through with it, however,
I still consider Betcoin a company none should advertise.

Maybe neutral trust would be more appropriate at the moment.