MEMBERS OF ETHEREUM TO RETURN ETC TO DAO INVESTORS PETITION

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

Just becouse i was compensated with their new version of a forked ETH doesn't mean i am any less entitled to the original ETC.

Actually yes, it does mean exactly that. Your investment was lost. Some smart guys invented a time machine and "unlost" it. You got your investment back (ETH) from the timeline where the hack (black or white hat) never existed. End of story. Stop creating space-time anomalies by demanding compensation from a different timeline, you'll get us all into a wormhole or a black hole or some kind of a hole.

No, the solution is very simple.
The members of the Ethereum team who acted as white hat and created the child Daos will have access to the ETC funds at this point of time. Just as much as the Black hat DAO who created a child DAO and is now moving his funds around.
Therefore the white hats redistribute the ETC back to its rightful owners AKA DAO holders.

No Wormholes or black holes needed.

Only integrity is needed & the realisation that it would avoid any future legal implications.

ETC is valued at 250 million dollars - 7.2 million ETC is worth so much money........

Why are we debating this ?!

I would suggest that you go ahead with your "legal implications". Don't forget to update this thread with how that works out, e.g. did the lawyers laugh at you immediately or just after they took your money, etc (pun intended).

OP: I want to sue somebody for X million.
Lawyers: Do they owe you?
OP: No, I was paid back what I was owed, but they have something else that's worth so much money and I want it.

18 millions dollars isn't a joke....
IF DAO holders wanted to sue - they could put up a really good case and it would then tie alot of things into the mix about using a new chain with an old brand. . I will be surprised if a whale doesn;t sue eventually especially if ETC rises in value more.
I won't sue as i am not a whale in by any means.
However i do want whats rightfully mine and if you do to - PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

[StinkyLover]

OK, it's time for ANALOGIES... (Yaay!)

Guy walks into Ford dealership
Buys Ford Explorer
Drives Ford Explorer
Learns that Ford Explorer is Deathtrap
Returns Ford Explorer to dealer mechanics and gets full refund
Mechanics pimp it up and sell the Ford Explorer to next guy very cheaply

Should original buyer get a cut over and above his original purchase price?

Or is this just crypto? Different rules apply.

[shyliar]

Likely it would be a class action lawsuit and DAO holders could just jump onboard.

It actually might be helpful in the long run for lawsuits to take place. I've read multiple articles about the legal ambiguities the DAO represented. It can only be beneficial for some of these ambiguities to be sorted out so that both contract writers, white hat hackers and investors have a clearer idea of what they are getting into for future projects.

[shyliar]

OK, it's time for ANALOGIES... (Yaay!)

Guy walks into Ford dealership
Buys Ford Explorer
Drives Ford Explorer
Learns that Ford Explorer is Deathtrap
Returns Ford Explorer to dealer mechanics and gets full refund
Mechanics pimp it up and sell the Ford Explorer to next guy very cheaply

Should original buyer get a cut over and above his original purchase price?

Or is this just crypto? Different rules apply.

If the Ford explorer somehow managed to turn into two Ford explorers I guess we could try comparing situations then.

[suchmoon]

18 millions dollars isn't a joke....
IF DAO holders wanted to sue - they could put up a really good case and it would then tie alot of things into the mix about using a new chain with an old brand. . I will be surprised if a whale doesn;t sue eventually especially if ETC rises in value more.
I won't sue as i am not a whale in by any means.
However i do want whats rightfully mine and if you do to - PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION

Well, then make up your mind. If you're not going to sue then your empty legal threats don't mean anything.

Have you even talked to the van-de-something white hat guy or do you just get the kick out of stirring shit on the intertubes?

[jacaf01]

You can't eat your cake and have. You people clamour for hard fork you have it, now ETC who knows what else you will demand for. The issue will surely drag on with no definite conclusion

[suchmoon]

If the Ford explorer somehow managed to turn into two Ford explorers I guess we could try comparing situations then.

I guess the point is - why does it matter what happened AFTER the customer/investor got a refund? He/she has no claim to the vehicle or the investment any longer, whether it gains or loses value or produces offsprings or disappears altogether.

The fork refunded the DAO investors. That's what they wanted, that's the solution Vitalik gave them.

[suchmoon]

I guess the point is - why does it matter what happened AFTER the customer/investor got a refund? He/she has no claim to the vehicle or the investment any longer, whether it gains or loses value or produces offsprings or disappears altogether.

The fork refunded the DAO investors. That's what they wanted, that's the solution Vitalik gave them.

Oh really?  What if it was the buyer's insurance that paid for the 2nd Ford Explorer?  Who's the owner?

Go ahead...   keep ignoring that the respective ETH were kept & split by the ETC opportunist hypocrites...   

Not sure what you mean by "kept & split". The DAO was drained by assorted hackers, black hat, white hat, whatever.

There was no insurance obviously, nor is there one in a lemon car buyback situation, or when you get a refund from Amazon or Walmart when you return something. And if somehow you tried do double-dip via insurance that would be obviously fraud.

I'm not saying that the "white hats" can't decide to distribute the ETC. They could, just like Ford could decide to give you extra $5k for pain and suffering. I'm just saying that OP's entitlement doesn't make sense and I doubt it would stand in court although I would like to see him/her try. Unfortunately the OP backpedaled from that so it's just words now. "I want it because it has value". Good luck with that.

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

Scenerio 1

Ethereum returns the ETC funds to its rightful owners. This causes an increased supply of ETC and therefore will most likely result in greater selling pressure. Most DAO holders will most likely cash out of there ETC position driving the price to the ground. Ethereum will no longer have a legal thorn by its side and can move on.

Scenerio 2

Ethereum Devs decide to keep the ETC. This proves Ethereum team can't be trusted & ignites a whole range of legal issues.

Scenerio 3

Ethereum Devs decide that they will not move the ETC and dispose of the private keys. ETC is now more scarce than Ethereum and they still have issue with legality of the whole thing.

IF the thief is able to have access and move his funds, why would the Ethereum team be reluctant to compensate honest DAO investors. ETC is now listed in all the top exchanges. This rash is not going to go away.

[suchmoon]

Don't get me wrong...  I agree that the lawsuit arguments & involving the Foundation is a waste of time/nonsense...   BUT...   OP has a valid claim and it doesn't differ from any ETC holder keeping & splitting his/her ETH.

Now whether any of the white hats will bother (or not) is a different story...   

I think it does differ in one substantial aspect. The DAO investors made a bad investment. Under normal circumstances that would be the end of it. Even the US govt didn't bail out Madoff's investors. In this case the choice was either:

1) Do nothing, the DAO investors lose money, those not invested in the DAO don't suffer any losses.

or

2) Bail them out, no one suffers any losses, those not invested in the DAO may get a bonus if the non-forked chain gains any value (few could have predicted that).

The OP is saying that he/she is entitled not only to the bailout but also to the bonus. Perhaps the "white hats" should just burn the ETC and end the OP's suffering.

[StinkyLover]

OK, it's time for ANALOGIES... (Yaay!)

Guy walks into Ford dealership
Buys Ford Explorer
Drives Ford Explorer
Learns that Ford Explorer is Deathtrap
Returns Ford Explorer to dealer mechanics and gets full refund
Mechanics pimp it up and sell the Ford Explorer to next guy very cheaply

Should original buyer get a cut over and above his original purchase price?

Or is this just crypto? Different rules apply.

Try again...  there are two (2) Ford Explorers after the Deathtrap part...   

OK, when you gave the car to the mechanics they used some of the original parts on another dead vehicle and sold them both.

Do you claim part of their profit?

Take it as a windfall for their efforts. They were the ones burning the midnight oil trying to save ETH. Not any of us. They got lucky. Meh.

[suchmoon]

Perhaps the "white hats" should just burn the ETC and end the OP's suffering.

Again...   you're choosing to ignore the FACT which makes the OP's claim valid...   the respective ETH were kept & split...   PERIOD

Which "respective ETH" are you referring to? The DAO ones? Those are the ones that don't have their "siblings" on the opposite chain. All others do.

And the OP hasn't answered a simple question. Has he/she contacted the "white hats" to find out what their intentions are? Going around with petitions and legal threats is a bit premature if there hasn't even been a response one way or the other.

[suchmoon]

It might actually be a trivial task to withdraw the said ETC if The DAO THIEF doesn't feel like creating further problems, but it's not guaranteed that he/she won't.

That's why I wanted to know if the "white hats" have expressed any opinion on this. My understanding is that even though the coins are in a child DAO controlled by the "white hats" it would still require quite a bit of effort to fully secure those coins and success is not guaranteed. Probably not quite what the OP is claiming:

No, the solution is very simple.

[Minecache]

Ok so as I gets it, the OP is asking for someone, anyone apart from him, to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC criminal coin of whatever someone invested into the DAO ETH chain. Ok dude we is waiting on your skills. Why criticise others when you can't even produce yourself. Fuckin disgusting self entitled idiot. You are worse than a Spoetniktard sockie.

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

Ok so as I gets it, the OP is asking for someone, anyone apart from him, to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC criminal coin of whatever someone invested into the DAO ETH chain. Ok dude we is waiting on your skills. Why criticise others when you can't even produce yourself. Fuckin disgusting self entitled idiot. You are worse than a Spoetniktard sockie.

LOL - this actually made me laugh for a minute....
a) its no more criminal than any other currency being the dollar, shekel, franc etc....

b) You don't get it. It isn't my obligation"'to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC'". It is the obligation of whoever is holding my rightful ETC by taking it in the first place aka members of the Ethereum team ( who were trusted to return it). If the coders really want some funds to do this for their time, the DAO holders can compensate by giving some ETC from the pool of funds.
c) Yes, i could contact the individual who led the white hat but will it go anywhere??
Before making this thread i came across this only request on the ethereum stack exchange

http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/7613/ethereum-classic-etc-and-the-dao-holders-will-the-white-hat-hackers-return-t

The question was put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Roland Kofler, eth♦ Aug 1 at 7:02
So no answers there.........

I also don't think that the white hat hackers should be rewarded 18 MILLION dollars for their efforts. That is ludicrous therefore stop making the narrative that they deserve it for trying to rescue the funds, which didn;t work out -  now they deserve to be filthy rich at the expense of the DAO holders. Its rediculous.

[suchmoon]

Ok so as I gets it, the OP is asking for someone, anyone apart from him, to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC criminal coin of whatever someone invested into the DAO ETH chain. Ok dude we is waiting on your skills. Why criticise others when you can't even produce yourself. Fuckin disgusting self entitled idiot. You are worse than a Spoetniktard sockie.

LOL - this actually made me laugh for a minute....
a) its not more criminal than any other currency being the dollar, shekel, franc etc....

b) You don't get it. It isn't my obligation"'to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC'". It is the obligation of whoever is holding my rightful ETC by taking it in the first place aka members of the Ethereum team ( who were trusted to return it).

c)Secondly - Yes, i could contact the individual who led the white hat but will it go anywhere?? <---- LULZZZ
Before making this thread i came across this only request on the ethereum stack exchange

http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/7613/ethereum-classic-etc-and-the-dao-holders-will-the-white-hat-hackers-return-t

The question was put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Roland Kofler, eth♦ Aug 1 at 7:02
So no answers there.........

I also don't think that the white hat hackers should be reward 18 MILLION dollars for their efforts. That is ludicrous therefore stop making the narrative being that they deserve it for trying to rescue the funds which didn;t work out so  now they deserve to be filthy rich at the expense of the DAO holders. Its rediculous.

No, what's "rediculous" is your spelling AND your willy waving without even trying to do the adult thing and talk to the person involved. They are not "holding" your ETC. They have created a child DAO, which is far from being secure from further attacks.

But thanks for clarifying that you're not actually interested in any kind of solution. Happy trolling.

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

Ok so as I gets it, the OP is asking for someone, anyone apart from him, to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC criminal coin of whatever someone invested into the DAO ETH chain. Ok dude we is waiting on your skills. Why criticise others when you can't even produce yourself. Fuckin disgusting self entitled idiot. You are worse than a Spoetniktard sockie.

LOL - this actually made me laugh for a minute....
a) its not more criminal than any other currency being the dollar, shekel, franc etc....

b) You don't get it. It isn't my obligation"'to code, implement and support a contract on the whitehat DAO that will allow themselves to withdraw the ETC'". It is the obligation of whoever is holding my rightful ETC by taking it in the first place aka members of the Ethereum team ( who were trusted to return it).

c)Secondly - Yes, i could contact the individual who led the white hat but will it go anywhere?? <---- LULZZZ
Before making this thread i came across this only request on the ethereum stack exchange

http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/7613/ethereum-classic-etc-and-the-dao-holders-will-the-white-hat-hackers-return-t

The question was put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Roland Kofler, eth♦ Aug 1 at 7:02
So no answers there.........

I also don't think that the white hat hackers should be reward 18 MILLION dollars for their efforts. That is ludicrous therefore stop making the narrative being that they deserve it for trying to rescue the funds which didn;t work out so  now they deserve to be filthy rich at the expense of the DAO holders. Its rediculous.

No, what's "rediculous" is your spelling AND your willy waving without even trying to do the adult thing and talk to the person involved. They are not "holding" your ETC. They have created a child DAO, which is far from being secure from further attacks.

But thanks for clarifying that you're not actually interesting in any kind of solution. Happy trolling.

Great english

And yes i don;t think that it will go anywhere which is why i created a  petition. Dipstick. As was inscribed on my old cassacius coin - ' Vires in Numeris'.

[suchmoon]

No, what's "rediculous" is your spelling AND your willy waving without even trying to do the adult thing and talk to the person involved. They are not "holding" your ETC. They have created a child DAO, which is far from being secure from further attacks.

But thanks for clarifying that you're not actually interesting in any kind of solution. Happy trolling.

Great english

It's called "Muphry’s Law".

[bbc.reporter]

The reason the white hat hackers transferred funds to their dao was to prevent the attacker from siphoning funds from the DAO. Now that it is all over my opinion on the matter is that the white hackers have the responsibility to return the funds they are holding. If they do not and plan to hold it for their own purposes then they are thieves like how some say the attacker is a thief.

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ethereum-devs-hack-the-hacker-price-skyrockets/

Indications that something was under foot were given yesterday later afternoon when Alex Van de Sande, lead designer at the Ethereum Foundation, twitted that a whitehat attack on the DAO was under way.

After some tense hours, Sande explained in a public post that “a group of very smart people” which, according to Stephan Tual, were composed of “members of eth foundation, devs, security experts, ethcore, slock,” acting as individuals and not as representatives or with any endorsement of their employers, infiltrated “all open split proposals” and secured 7.2 million eth “now held in a child DAO” with the team holding “the private keys of the curator.”

Fabian Vogelsteller, lead Ðapp developer at Ethereum, stated in a public post:

“We know the curator of the Attacker DAO with 3.5M ether, now 7.2 ether are safe in a DAO where we also know the curator. With a temporary Soft Fork all this ethers can be send to a refund contract and the nightmare is over!”
There seems to be little, if any, controversy regarding the soft fork which has already been merged in Parity, one of Ethereum’s clients, and will be merged in Go within a day or two. According to an ethpool vote, miners are almost unanimously in favor, developers are in full consensus, and most users seem to be in favor.

However, the hard-fork, which has been subject to much debate, may be avoided. Sande, who has been against the hard-fork from the beginning, stated that the “[h]ard fork is unnecessary at this point.”

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These individuals have the responsibility to return ETC back to the DAO holders

SIGN THE PETITION IF YOU AGREE