Conceptually, what could the government do to defeat bitcoin?

[joecascio]

Let's assume the US government, or any government for that matter, decided to outlaw bitcoin. What could they reasonably do?

Make the use of bitcoin as a method of payment illegal? How would it be enforced? Well, clearly people could not advertise to either be paid or to pay with bitcoin. Or the authorities could mount sting operations offering to pay in bitcoin and entrap anyone attempting to use it. That would pretty much close the door, right?

[farlack]

Use all government computers as a botnet to mine, bringing the difficulty up so high aisics cant mine, then dump coins.

[candoo]

Government could start a bitcoin mining pool. Offering 150% payout!
Lots of people would join to get 50% extra profit. Government would reach 80% and kill bitcoin instant

[TheButterZone]

Under the worst possible interpretation of FinCEN's "guidance"*, and the best, pro-liberty, intentions of bitcoin, it's already defeated in the U.S. Tyranny does not go quietly into the night.

*If you accept a single penny from someone in exchange for your BTC without first going bankrupt to be compliant with the MSB/MT regulations, you are a criminal.

[Gab1159]

Under the worst possible interpretation of FinCEN's "guidance"*, and the best, pro-liberty, intentions of bitcoin, it's already defeated in the U.S. Tyranny does not go quietly into the night.

*If you accept a single penny from someone in exchange for your BTC without first going bankrupt to be compliant with the MSB/MT regulations, you are a criminal.

That's not how I interpreted the guidance...

[farlack]

Government could start a bitcoin mining pool. Offering 150% payout!
Lots of people would join to get 50% extra profit. Government would reach 80% and kill bitcoin instant

They would not even need that, a botnet would do just fine. offering 150% would not get anyone to join it. Those intelligent enough to join a pool are intelligent enough to read %'s and know that making $15 a day, instead of $10 a day, isn't smart to do when tomorrow you're making $0 a day.



Especially since bitcointalk would have a big red banner flashing saying DO NOT JOIN THIS GOVERNMENT POOL ERROR ERROR ERROR WOOT WOOT DONT DO IT!!1.1.1.1!!!1.14$@$$%%!! :p

[TheButterZone]

Under the worst possible interpretation of FinCEN's "guidance"*, and the best, pro-liberty, intentions of bitcoin, it's already defeated in the U.S. Tyranny does not go quietly into the night.

*If you accept a single penny from someone in exchange for your BTC without first going bankrupt to be compliant with the MSB/MT regulations, you are a criminal.

That's not how I interpreted the guidance...

I said that's the worst possible interpretation.

Seeing as how the courts almost always rubber stamp tyranny and favor the government above its victims despite crystal-clear, Constitutionally-enumerated rights with shit-tons of original intent to bury tyrants with, I would not be surprised to be correct.

[candoo]

Government could start a bitcoin mining pool. Offering 150% payout!
Lots of people would join to get 50% extra profit. Government would reach 80% and kill bitcoin instant

They would not even need that, a botnet would do just fine. offering 150% would not get anyone to join it. Those intelligent enough to join a pool are intelligent enough to read %'s and know that making $15 a day, instead of $10 a day, isn't smart to do when tomorrow you're making $0 a day.



Especially since bitcointalk would have a big red banner flashing saying DO NOT JOIN THIS GOVERNMENT POOL ERROR ERROR ERROR WOOT WOOT DONT DO IT!!1.1.1.1!!!1.14$@$$%%!! :p

Well Government could create like 8 new pools. Each of them offering 120%? (idk whats the highest rate yet) payout.
Nobody knows that all of thoose 8 pools are owned by the same person/government. After   all 8 pools  own together like 80% of the hashing power, they just start to kill coins.

[nwbitcoin]

Think about it, how would you stop bitcoin?

Firstly, you would highlight all the bad reasons people use bitcoin (Silk Road etc) then you would highlight how the political beliefs of the biggest users were all anti government types.

The next step is to create a mistrust of how it would work in conjunction with the current system. Would people suddenly lose all the benefits they already have? Would society actually be damaged if bitcoin was to be popular?  Would people stop paying taxes, and would the government quickly go bust?  Would this lead to the country being at the mercy of its enemies?

A few articles in the national papers asking this questions would certainly create enough distrust of bitcoin to stop anyone thinking its was a good honest idea for a good honest working person to get involved with.

Finally, the government would require all bitcoin exchanges to be qualified members of the financial industry and be fully compliant with every rules required by international banks.

This would not make bitcoin illegal, but it would stop it growing.

Governments prefer to control people than to ban them.  They learnt that didn't work with the drug industry.  They won't make that mistake twice!

[Offthechain]

* Smear campaign informing people its used for kiddie porn, drugs and terror.

* Telling people its actually devaluing their own currency! Those without BTC would instantly hate it.

* A ban on exchanges

* A ban on merchants accepting Bitcoin as payment.

I think these are much easier and cheaper than any form of network attack.
Its not out of the question... the US can do pretty much what they want when playing the 'terror' card.
I read that China already have legislation for virtual currencies?

I'm hoping this explodes Globally before any of this happens.

[rpietila]

Bitcoin can be a bit of a tarbaby when it comes to defeating it. Many conceivable attacks may give rise to consequences that are even more pernicious from the standpoint of a government/central bank. You can be sure this is already being gamed out in the think tanks.

Alternately, a government could make great use of Bitcoin, or a Bitcoin-like system. Remember, onion routing was developed by the U.S. Navy. Gavin has stated (or perhaps, implied) that the CIA had expressed interest in the potential use of Bitcoin as a clandestine payment system. Bitcoin could also serve as a rich source of intelligence through money-mapping techniques, &etc. As such, I would expect that there could be (not a few) Bitcoin related service businesses that act as fronts for intelligence community data collection and operations support.

Aside from that kind of entanglement I suppose that a government could involve itself in attacks on the exchange markets designed to remove liquidity from markets. It would take deep pockets to do this, but even at a billion dollar 'market capitalization' those means are well within reach of a government. Although, given the right kind of intelligence such a trading program could be targeted to affecting the liquidity of an individual trader.

There may be a show at some sort of legal intervention, but I expect that it would be by way of an artful manipulation of the direction of Bitcoin development rather than any genuine effort to abolishing it.

Very good points. To add:

- "The government" presumably means the U.S. government, and its allies. They do not 100% own the world yet, so an outright attempt to discredit/destroy bitcoin may end up just harming their own citizens, while enriching others. Not that they cared..
- The idea of a cruptocurrency cannot be destroyed by rooting up its offspring, the cryptocurrencies. If they want the world to be content without cryptocurrencies, they need to disprove their validity and usefulness. That cannot be done by force. By just wrecking Spinning Jennys, the idea is not destroyed, but rather gains more traction. A 51% attack against a certain crypto would do more harm to the gov than good.
- I am sure the NSA has gathered a formidable database of compromised private keys. This may amount to 25%-75% of all bitcoins existing. We don't even know all the methods they have for snooping us. Even if they wrecked with these all at once, I don't believe it would do more than to infuriate all the honest users against their own gov. Governments typically want to avoid provoking extremism.

[Vladimir]

Declare war on Bitcoin and drone anyone who ever heard read or said or wrote word Bitcoin. Send the drones to take out every computer that ever was spotted on Bitcoin network. Damn.... I am missing out on a brilliant career in government.

[rpietila]

Declare war on Bitcoin and drone anyone who ever heard read or said or wrote word Bitcoin. Send the drones to take out every computer that ever was spotted on Bitcoin network. Damn.... I am missing out on a brilliant career in government.

Yeah. Even if the government's secret agenda was to "be the enemy of all its citizens, all good, all progress and all fun" (which I don't even literally believe), it is certainly not good tactics to do what you described.

[freequant]

Aside from that kind of entanglement I suppose that a government could involve itself in attacks on the exchange markets designed to remove liquidity from markets. It would take deep pockets to do this, but even at a billion dollar 'market capitalization' those means are well within reach of a government.

This would immediately earn all of us a lifetime worth of income, so we would have all the time, focus and resources we need to create an even more pervasive and unstoppable Bitcoin 2.0.

[cbeast]

Gavin has stated (or perhaps, implied) that the CIA had expressed interest in the potential use of Bitcoin as a clandestine payment system. Bitcoin could also serve as a rich source of intelligence through money-mapping techniques, &etc. As such, I would expect that there could be (not a few) Bitcoin related service businesses that act as fronts for intelligence community data collection and operations support.

I somehow missed this. It sheds a new light on how western governments may perceive the value of financial liberty. Perhaps the arranged marriage to the central banks is not so important to defending freedom in the intelligence community.

[freequant]

Aside from that kind of entanglement I suppose that a government could involve itself in attacks on the exchange markets designed to remove liquidity from markets. It would take deep pockets to do this, but even at a billion dollar 'market capitalization' those means are well within reach of a government.

This would immediately earn all of us a lifetime worth of income, so we would have all the time, focus and resources we need to create an even more pervasive and unstoppable Bitcoin 2.0.

I think you misunderstand what I mean by 'remove liquidity from the markets'. I am not just talking about buying up Bitcoins, but trading in a manner that removes liquidity overall from both sides of the orderbook. And, alternatelty, targeting the liqidity of individual traders, or groups of traders given the right kind of inside information. This could be done with any exchange traded commodity... Even a Bitcoin 2.0. The exchange is a vulnerable layer.

Removing all the liquidity on both side is even better. It means executing everybody at the price they asked, and you aren't even impacting the money supply because you sell on one side what you bought on the other. Pure profit for everyone. You may even increase liquidity as people will rush to place more orders. It's like shouting loud "Hey guys, today the spread is on us!".

[freequant]

Let me put it this way freequant... Let's say that someone knew all your individual positions and understood exactly how you trade. Could they take money out of your pockets?

Probably, but that makes a lot of unlikely conditions.

[freequant]

Let me put it this way freequant... Let's say that someone knew all your individual positions and understood exactly how you trade. Could they take money out of your pockets?

Probably, but that makes a lot of unlikely conditions.

I am talking about the power of an omniscient trader, someone covertly plugged in to an exchange, capable of spearfishing you. Then like a sniper, picking off traders in droves.

That would more likely affect the exchange's popularity than Bitcoin itself.

[malevolent]

I have a question to those residing in the US.

Could American users of Bitcoin be classified and sentenced as domestic terrorists?

From what I have read Liberty Dollars were regarded as a form of 'domestic terrorism'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar#Conviction

Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Anne M. Tompkins, described the Liberty Dollar as "a unique form of domestic terrorism" that is trying "to undermine the legitimate currency of this country". The Justice Department press release quotes her as saying: "While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country."

[MysteryMiner]

Let's assume the US government, or any government for that matter, decided to outlaw bitcoin. What could they reasonably do?

The question itself contains the answer. They will outlaw Bitcoins by saying "Bitcoins are bad, mkay, you should not use Bitcoins..." It is like outlawing filesharing, porn or political dissent, few users will get caught and made example of, all other will take technical measures to hide.

Use all government computers as a botnet to mine, bringing the difficulty up so high aisics cant mine, then dump coins

Barely working Celerons with Intel GMA will make crappy botnet. Even if all government owned computers of lets say Italy would be in botnet, it will be only medium sized one. And botnets are crappy at mining. Not nearly enough to pull 51% attack.

This means that answer to question

what could the government do to defeat bitcoin?

is probably nothing.