Account farming. Allowed?

[rizzlarolla]

* Updated farmed account list being prepared..... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1670807.0. *


Is account farming allowed? It has ruined this forum.

There is clear evidence that account farming on a professional scale is, and has been taking place. The process of bringing accounts upto rank creates endless spam. Then when the accounts are sold, the new owner is likely to recoup his outlay by spamming for a sig campaign. An endless cycle of meaningless BS spam.
(some of the new owners may want to do other things such as scam or sway argument, of course)

These professional account farmers are very good at their job. You will not see the obvious if you will not look. They are the root cause of spam here.
It is too late bbc.reporter listing 20 farmed accounts. There are 1000's. By the time they are added to someones list - the damage to the forum is done.

Theymos must know what is happening.
Global mods must know what is happening, and could act. Other mods/staff must know what is happening but cannot (directly) act.

I do not have access to IP's. I cannot see (or know) if a member is banned. The member search doesn't even work.
I found all this easy enough when looking into a list of 20 claimed spammers.
Beside my user experience being ruined, I'm not that bothered. It is not my forum. I did think theymos might have been bothered for genuine members though.
I may have got it all wrong?

I'm bringing this (relevant half) quote over here as a starting point of my evidence. (sorry if i messed up your thread (OP) bbc.reporter. and sorry Mitchell, i was also guilty of not reading your post correctly. i understand the 0 post farmed accounts i mentioned are all banned, but bbc's list? and the other active accounts i have identified?) I will identify/post more farmed accounts here as necessary for proof. (unless farming is allowed and ok)

I previously linked (some of) OP  listed active accounts. There are many more "patterns" which are easily findable in these active farmed accounts.
They are all bought up to status by posting once a fortnight. the minimum post to max potential?
(you need to look at the first posts on the account. it may be sold now)

Christmas day wont stop the system. (i know, why should it)
But for fun(!) look at "stadus", https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664919
Check his original posts https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664919;sa=showPosts;start=180
He posted Nov 25, Dec 5/14/25, Jan 7/20, Feb 2/14/27

Now see "asidaman", https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664926 (he joined 4 min 11 seconds later than stadus)
Check his original posts. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664926;sa=showPosts
He posted Nov 25, Dec 6/14/25, Jan 7/20, Feb 2/15/28
This pattern runs right through OP target period

***


Look at "efemen" (from OP list) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=667865
And compare with (all registered within 8 minutes)
"Falmant" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=667868
"Gatotare" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=667872
"Hamaber" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=667873

They posted on (from first posts remember)
Dec 27, Jan 5/16/27, Feb 9/22
Dec 27, Jan 6/17/29, Feb 10/23
Dec 27, Jan 7/18/30, Feb 9/22
Dec 27, Feb 8/19/31, Feb 10/23
This pattern runs right through OP target period?

***

keep in mind that the problem is also caused by the signature campaigns themselves. They usually are not putting up enough pressure on their participants regarding quality, or just don't care at all.

Trouble is Lauda, the posts of these farmers are far superior to the posts of members like twa https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49360
They fool the mods, they fool the global mods, they fool theymos. Should Lutpin not be fooled?

[1685323489]

1685323489

[1685323489]

1685323489

[1685323489]

1685323489

[Quickseller]

Yes, it is allowed.

[rizzlarolla]

Yes, it is allowed.

As I suspected!

However there are other "rules and vague rumour, open to individual moderators to enforce" that could cover this situation?
Like vague rule number 1, "1. No zero or low value, pointless or uninteresting posts or threads."
(from the "somewhat complete, unofficial list" at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

I'm not looking for someone with 2 alts. This is different.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

It's a shitty practice,  but it's going to satutate the market eventually,  and it's getting close already.   Put a neg on all account buyers and sellers, that's my suggestion.   Give em a little disincentive to do it.  I totally agree with you, rizz. 

[rizzlarolla]

It's a shitty practice,  but it's going to satutate the market eventually,  and it's getting close already.   Put a neg on all account buyers and sellers, that's my suggestion.   Give em a little disincentive to do it.  I totally agree with you, rizz.  

It is the wrong suggestion.

I don't care for the trust system. Don't understand it, never used it.
I just want to talk about bitcoin, and read about it. I cant anymore.

These accounts are self sustaining. They post, they earn. The more they want to earn, the more accounts they need.
The more spam there is, the less real members there are.

Theymos should be the disincentive I think?
(added, lets pretend Theymos and the mods/staff probably aren't running this farming business until we have a response)

[K~Ehleyr]

I find this quite disturbing.  Ok, so I'm only a newbie and my posts may not be particularly productive, but I'm a real person who types what comes into my head with no hidden agenda.  I too am here to talk about Bitcoin, and read, and mostly learn.  Crypto is my new obsession.  Yet even in my short time here I have found it hard work filtering through all the pointless and spammy posts, and the trolls!!  I know there are trolls everywhere but sometimes here it feels like I'm not even arguing with a real person!  Trolls and arguments aside, when it feels like you're talking to a robot, there's just no point.  It's a shame because all the fake posts obscure the really good stuff that genuine members come here for.  And without genuine members and their contributions, any forum is worthless.

[unholycactus]

I find this quite disturbing.  Ok, so I'm only a newbie and my posts may not be particularly productive, but I'm a real person who types what comes into my head with no hidden agenda.  I too am here to talk about Bitcoin, and read, and mostly learn.  Crypto is my new obsession.  Yet even in my short time here I have found it hard work filtering through all the pointless and spammy posts, and the trolls!!  I know there are trolls everywhere but sometimes here it feels like I'm not even arguing with a real person!  Trolls and arguments aside, when it feels like you're talking to a robot, there's just no point.  It's a shame because all the fake posts obscure the really good stuff that genuine members come here for.  And without genuine members and their contributions, any forum is worthless.

Depends on the board, some like gambling are almost exclusively spam, some are decent.
If you have trouble filtering decent posts, DannyHamilton made a list that blocks sig spammers.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0

Basically anyone with that is in or has been in a signature campaign is there (mine included).
You can create your own list too I suppose.

[rizzlarolla]

I find this quite disturbing.  Ok, so I'm only a newbie and my posts may not be particularly productive, but I'm a real person who types what comes into my head with no hidden agenda.  I too am here to talk about Bitcoin, and read, and mostly learn.  Crypto is my new obsession.  Yet even in my short time here I have found it hard work filtering through all the pointless and spammy posts, and the trolls!!  I know there are trolls everywhere but sometimes here it feels like I'm not even arguing with a real person!  Trolls and arguments aside, when it feels like you're talking to a robot, there's just no point.  It's a shame because all the fake posts obscure the really good stuff that genuine members come here for.  And without genuine members and their contributions, any forum is worthless.

You are not a farmed account.

The robots you speak to are actually farmed accounts.
I had a quick look. You spoke quoted 1 a few days ago. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662306

Depends on the board, some like gambling are almost exclusively spam, some are decent.
If you have trouble filtering decent posts, DannyHamilton made a list that blocks sig spammers.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0

Basically anyone with that is in or has been in a signature campaign is there (mine included).
You can create your own list too I suppose.

Because they can get away with talking endless spam in gambling. (and speculation)
Dannys list is great, (i don't use any blocker) but it is a sticking plaster against farmed accounts.
And the difference between farmed and unfarmed spam is also relevant and differentiating.

[K~Ehleyr]

Depends on the board, some like gambling are almost exclusively spam, some are decent.
If you have trouble filtering decent posts, DannyHamilton made a list that blocks sig spammers.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0

Basically anyone with that is in or has been in a signature campaign is there (mine included).
You can create your own list too I suppose.

Wow, that's impressive!  Thanks for that.  I'll hold off for now as I'm still finding out whose posts I want to see, but I've bookmarked that thread in case I need it later 

You are not a farmed account.

The robots you speak to are actually farmed accounts.
I had a quick look. You spoke quoted 1 a few days ago. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662306

I see... so the key indicator is when their activity matches their post count?  I noticed that happens sometimes and took a moment to figure out how it was possible, but at the time I put it down to coincidence.  I know what to look for now, thanks!

[rizzlarolla]

You are not a farmed account.

The robots you speak to are actually farmed accounts.
I had a quick look. You spoke quoted 1 a few days ago. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662306

I see... so the key indicator is when their activity matches their post count?  I noticed that happens sometimes and took a moment to figure out how it was possible, but at the time I put it down to coincidence.  I know what to look for now, thanks!

It is not quite that simple.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1591598.0 Gives a better, slightly confusing, methodology to finding them.

I will try to publish clearer information here now I'm up to speed!

[Quickseller]

Yes, it is allowed.

As I suspected!

However there are other "rules and vague rumour, open to individual moderators to enforce" that could cover this situation?
Like vague rule number 1, "1. No zero or low value, pointless or uninteresting posts or threads."
(from the "somewhat complete, unofficial list" at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

I'm not looking for someone with 2 alts. This is different.

If an account farmer (or anyone) makes a large number of low value posts then they will likely get banned. A well established account will need to make a decent number of low value posts before they are in danger of getting banned. An account farmer could simply make generally interesting posts to get around violating this rule. An account farmer would need to put in a generally small amount of effort to not break this rule.

These accounts are self sustaining. They post, they earn. The more they want to earn, the more accounts they need.

Yes, someone with a lot of accounts can make a decent amount of money just by posting in signature campaigns.

If you assume that someone can make 0.001BTC per post (which I do not think is unrealistic, and is even maybe low), and over the long run, can make one post every 2 minutes (again, not unrealistic, but the post quality would not be very good), then someone can make roughly $18 per hour just by posting while participating in a signature campaign if they can find enough threads to reply to throughout the day.

When you compare this to making $8-$9 per hour, flipping burgers at McDonalds posting large numbers of posts can be very appealing to a certain group of people.

Theymos should be the disincentive I think?

There are certain policies in place that make it harder on a certain type of spammers, primarily those who post links to spam, and those who use automation to create accounts with the intention of creating a single post (from each account) that is an advertisement. These policies generally give a little bit of value to accounts because higher level accounts due to relaxed posting requirements. The forum also explicitly allows for people to have as many accounts as they want because of things like freedom of speech.

I agree that we have a problem with users making too much 'white noise' making it difficult to have a decent conversation about Bitcoin, however I am not sure how to fix this issue. Over the past couple of years, several solutions have been suggested, however if implemented, they would likely do much more harm then good.

[rizzlarolla]

I find this quite disturbing.

The robots you speak to are actually farmed accounts.
I had a quick look. You spoke quoted 1 a few days ago. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662306 (Palodar)

See how near to my already quoted u=number this member you quoted is? (u=662306 above and u=662242 quoted below from bbc.report list.

Again look at the users surrounding, say, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662242 from your list.
(you have another only 38 regestrations away, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662280)

The next registered user, u=662243 has a 21/21 score (activity/post) and looks the same as your targets.
The next registered user, u=662244 has 177/177, and looks the same as your targets.
Then the next two are 0/0 (and looks the same as your targets, in idle)
Followed by u=662247 having 74/74, and looks the same as your targets.
They are probably the same owner.

I have a list of all the active farmed accounts between 662280 (just above bbc.report list u=662242) and 662342 (past the farmed account you quoted in your conversation u=662306). It is not just post count=activity!


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662242                       Kellor ***
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662243                                                             RustNan
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662244  Fredomago
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662247                                         Piladeer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662280                      Kaller ***
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662284                                                             RastMan
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662285  Frodomaga
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662288                                         Palider
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662294                      Kalder
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662295                                                             RastoMan
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662298  Flodemaga
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662306                                      Palodar
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662310                      Kolder
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662312                                                             Rastanan ***
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662316  Flademago
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662318                                          Pamadar
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662322                      Koamder
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662326                                                              Rastadon
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662329  Fademigo
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662330                                          Pamoldar
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662337                      Kolamider
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662342                                                              Rostadom
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662347  Fidimoga

I have added their names, and spread them into category's. (so you don't have too)
Can you see the pattern here? Check the first posts if you need further confirmation.  

Over 1500 spam posts here between 22 farmed accounts.
(list covers nearly 4 hour time span)
There are thousands more.

*** bbc. spammer list
added  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662347  Fidimoga (23)

[K~Ehleyr]

Wow.... and oh my god... This thing is huge, isn't it??  It must take some work collating the data as you are, but once seen the patterns are unmistakable!

[rizzlarolla]

Now see "asidaman", https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664926 (he joined 4 min 11 seconds later than stadus)
Check his original posts. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664926;sa=showPosts
He posted Nov 25, Dec 6/14/25, Jan 7/20, Feb 2/15/28
This pattern runs right through OP target period

(OP target period being approx 100,000 accounts)
Lets have a better look.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664793                                          sadyas
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664805  apriloni
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664811                                                              virusasog
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664818                      michkima
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664832                                          satdas
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664837  asrilani
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664839                                                              virasisog
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664845                      miakama
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664876                                          studas
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664883  asdalani
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664899                                                              varusisog ***
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664909                      misakama
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664919                                          stadus
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664926  asidamani
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664935                                                              vasrasus
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664939                      mistanama
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664958                                          sildyas
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664960  asriloni
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664962                                                              vurasasog
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664965                      mitkala
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664980                                          satmas
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664985  asradoni
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664989                                                              vatusasid
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=664992                      miayama


Same kind of pattern here.
(this list covers a two and a half hour registration time span)
All happily posting away. Another 1900 meaningless spam posts from 24 farmed accounts.
(I think there was barely 1 normal active user in in-betwen these accounts. The rest in-between accounts are inactive 0 post accounts)

If an account farmer (or anyone) makes a large number of low value posts then they will likely get banned. A well established account will need to make a decent number of low value posts before they are in danger of getting banned. An account farmer could simply make generally interesting posts to get around violating this rule. An account farmer would need to put in a generally small amount of effort to not break this rule.

Clearly the farmer knows this and does have a certain quality, albeit low. The same mundane sentences are rehashed infinitely.
You know how hard it can be to build a case against 1 spammer. There are thousands of these farmed accounts.
By the time someone campaign's to get 1 banned, there are probably 100's more.
This is why it is up to Theymos to act against, or not. Nothing we can do.
I'll just try to highlight the scale of the problem. I never realised before.

If you assume that someone can make 0.001BTC per post (which I do not think is unrealistic, and is even maybe low), and over the long run, can make one post every 2 minutes (again, not unrealistic, but the post quality would not be very good), then someone can make roughly $18 per hour just by posting while participating in a signature campaign if they can find enough threads to reply to throughout the day.

When you compare this to making $8-$9 per hour, flipping burgers at McDonalds posting large numbers of posts can be very appealing to a certain group of people.

So, hire someone at $5 per hour, and keep $10 per hour in profit. Hire 10 people, keep $1000 per day profit. It must be happening?
These accounts I am highlighting are most likely created by 1 or 2 or very few people. It is a unique and identifiable circumstance.
It could easily be solved, independently of other multi-account or spam issues, as I think I have shown how easily they can be detected.

There are certain policies in place that make it harder on a certain type of spammers, primarily those who post links to spam, and those who use automation to create accounts with the intention of creating a single post (from each account) that is an advertisement. These policies generally give a little bit of value to accounts because higher level accounts due to relaxed posting requirements. The forum also explicitly allows for people to have as many accounts as they want because of things like freedom of speech.

I agree that we have a problem with users making too much 'white noise' making it difficult to have a decent conversation about Bitcoin, however I am not sure how to fix this issue. Over the past couple of years, several solutions have been suggested, however if implemented, they would likely do much more harm then good.

There are certain vague rules that could be applied, but are not being.
Makes me wonder, but for now, i,m pretending Theymos and the mods/staff probably aren't running this farming business, until I have a response.
Someone is making big money out of this.

I don't mind people making money, but such a massive degradation of this forum I do mind.
When "real" new bitcoiners, like K~Ehlyr end up in conversation with these farmed accounts...   well, read his thoughts above.

I'm guessing new members like K~Ehlyr, and any non-members looking in, must think all bitcoiners are f**king retards!

*** bbc. spammer list

[Omegasun]

i think the pattern of name is not a strong basis for alt account. for example me and omegastarcream has the same prefix in username but we are not
totally related to each even you check our profile and search for the local thread that we post.. i think farming of account here is not a allowed but it is hard
to identify who is them. hahhaha.. Even theymos will have hard times for this case.

[btvGainer]

Account farming should definitely be banned.But the question is we can not know whic account is created for farming purpose and which is genuine.Usually when people visit this forum and learn about signature campaigns,they want to join them and since due to their lower rank they get less paid,they want tp buy higher account or post lots of messages to increase their post counts

[rizzlarolla]

i think the pattern of name is not a strong basis for alt account. for example me and omegastarcream has the same prefix in username but we are not
totally related to each even you check our profile and search for the local thread that we post.. i think farming of account here is not a allowed but it is hard
to identify who is them. hahhaha.. Even theymos will have hard times for this case.

(and btvGainer)

The pattern here IS strong. You don't know how to analyse the information that I have provided.
I would never connect you with OmegaStarScream in this way. I am not looking for prefix's in names.

The above list is taken from a 2.5 hour period. Yourself and OSS joined 14 months apart.
The above list is in time order of members joining bitcointalk and is clearly ordered - S -V - A - M -S - V - A - M -S - V - A - M - ...continue.
The list above is taken from 200 consecutive members joining. 12% are active farmed accounts.
(Almost all the other 88% accounts omitted from the list are inactive 0 post accounts. Probably mostly padding for the farmers cover)

Take another look.
I do not think Theymos would have a hard time recognising these cases. (and all the others)

PS Omega. I am now be looking into your account.

[K~Ehleyr]

There must be good money in it.  Have you seen this guy?  Offering to spend 10btc on a whole army of spammers...

[Omegasun]

i think the pattern of name is not a strong basis for alt account. for example me and omegastarcream has the same prefix in username but we are not
totally related to each even you check our profile and search for the local thread that we post.. i think farming of account here is not a allowed but it is hard
to identify who is them. hahhaha.. Even theymos will have hard times for this case.

(and btvGainer)

The pattern here IS strong. You don't know how to analyse the information that I have provided.
I would never connect you with OmegaStarScream in this way. I am not looking for prefix's in names.

The above list is taken from a 2.5 hour period. Yourself and OSS joined 14 months apart.
The above list is in time order of members joining bitcointalk and is clearly ordered - S -V - A - M -S - V - A - M -S - V - A - M - ...continue.
The list above is taken from 200 consecutive members joining. 12% are active farmed accounts.
(Almost all the other 88% accounts omitted from the list are inactive 0 post accounts. Probably mostly padding for the farmers cover)

Take another look.
I do not think Theymos would have a hard time recognising these cases. (and all the others)

PS Omega. I am now be looking into your account.

Thanks for being in your watchlist mate. My point is don't judge it by the name. But i agree with you that they are related because of the time they are created. You are lucky if theymos grant your wish because AFAIK there are no rules regarding this matter and i think the owner of the accounts is working so hard just to have a profit his accounts. And i think multiple registration on same IP will result to banned of the IP..


Btw gotta out here. Not my business. Im not a police. Bye!:)

[botany]

i think the pattern of name is not a strong basis for alt account. for example me and omegastarcream has the same prefix in username but we are not
totally related to each even you check our profile and search for the local thread that we post.. i think farming of account here is not a allowed but it is hard
to identify who is them. hahhaha.. Even theymos will have hard times for this case.

It is not just the pattern of name.
It is the time of registration, number of times the pattern repeats and the post quality.
Strong correlation, in my opinion.