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Author Topic: Are Bitcoin private property  (Read 7968 times)
swfsql
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August 26, 2016, 04:26:53 PM
 #1

I'm talking about the money kind of bitcoin.

Some situations where the bitcoin status of being a private property or not could arise:

> A mistakenly sends bitcoins to B, and A finds out who B is.
> A mistakenly shows his private keys to B (by just saying it), and A finds out who B is.
> B executes a replay attack on A.
> B, by an practical impossible luck, creates a private key that had founds that belonged to A already.
> B sends money to A (and A sends "something" or some information to B). Then, we don't know why, everyone decides to change their Bitcoin rules and the result is that A can't get to spend his money in the new version.

I started an article (here) trying to defend the idea that bitcoin is not private property, therefore all of the examples above couldn't be classified as theft or robbery (of private property).

What do you think?
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August 26, 2016, 10:17:13 PM
 #2

I'm talking about the money kind of bitcoin.

Some situations where the bitcoin status of being a private property or not could arise:

> A mistakenly sends bitcoins to B, and A finds out who B is.
> A mistakenly shows his private keys to B (by just saying it), and A finds out who B is.
> B executes a replay attack on A.
> B, by an practical impossible luck, creates a private key that had founds that belonged to A already.

I started an article (here) trying to defend the idea that bitcoin is not private property, therefore all of the examples above couldn't be classified as theft or robbery (of private property).

What do you think?
By possessing bitcoin,you get the right to hold,sell,spend or let it lay idle in your wallet>Once you lose it anyhow you also lose the right to claim its ownership


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LordCoder
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August 26, 2016, 11:11:42 PM
 #3

I believe it's not private property. Considering that it's all based on private keys, you can take that privkey and steal the funds. However, if you only have the private key and you don't use Bitcoin is just text. The only thing is that it's copyrighted, which obviously is not.
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August 26, 2016, 11:59:23 PM
 #4

I know this has been discussed before, and hasn't it been agreed that
holding the private key is your only real ownership?    

The coins, if they are worth any fiat currency, all that is just some abstract ideas...  
and the only thing you really have physical control of is the fact you have the password to decrypt that part of the transaction chain.

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August 27, 2016, 12:43:35 AM
 #5

I think this is like contemplating infinity, whereby if you do it too much you will go insane. 

This is in the legal section, and I don't think most countries' law has caught up to where cryptocurrency is, i.e., whether it's money or an asset.  This is a damn good question that governments will have to think about and answer.  It's also good that OP's example is asymptotically impossible and won't actually ever have to be dealt with.
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August 29, 2016, 04:34:52 AM
 #6

Each country, state, jurisdiction, etc have their own ways of classifying bitcoin.  Check with yours and see what you find.  Regardless of your local laws, having the private key to your bitcoin is essentially owning property. Good question.

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August 30, 2016, 08:25:10 AM
 #7

i just know that bitcoinis the property of the person who is holding it, if i have 10 bitcoins, i am the owner of 10 bitcoins and these 10 bitcoins are my property and no one has the right to take it from me, and i have the full right to use it, hold it or donate it no one has any concern with it.
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August 30, 2016, 10:09:31 AM
 #8

bitcoin is the property of those people who are owning it, if i have 30 bitcoins in my wallet so i am the owner of 30 bitcoins.
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August 30, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
 #9

While doing any type of calculation, you should have to keep in mind that bitcoin is a currency and its rules in finance are the same as other currency, so you will not find any difficulty while deciding anything for that.
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August 30, 2016, 07:15:02 PM
 #10

While doing any type of calculation, you should have to keep in mind that bitcoin is a currency and its rules in finance are the same as other currency, so you will not find any difficulty while deciding anything for that.
i think other currencies are the property of the state and government has the right to take it from you if they need so, the other thing is that you cannot carry fiat currency out of our country without government permission or paying tax on it. while bitcoin is some thing else, there is no doubt that bitcoin is a currency but the number of bitcoins you have is your property and no one has the right to take it away from you. and you have also the right to take it any where without any restriction.
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August 31, 2016, 11:42:35 AM
 #11

Yes, bitcoin is private property and anyone who takes my coins is a thief. Because the probability of someone accidentally generating my private keys is zero.

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August 31, 2016, 12:02:19 PM
 #12

While doing any type of calculation, you should have to keep in mind that bitcoin is a currency and its rules in finance are the same as other currency, so you will not find any difficulty while deciding anything for that.
i think other currencies are the property of the state and government has the right to take it from you if they need so, the other thing is that you cannot carry fiat currency out of our country without government permission or paying tax on it. while bitcoin is some thing else, there is no doubt that bitcoin is a currency but the number of bitcoins you have is your property and no one has the right to take it away from you. and you have also the right to take it any where without any restriction.

No in the state of capitalist, we say that we are the owners of the money which we earn by our hard work, and it is also the rule of every religion of the world from the beginning of the world, so according to that we have full right over our money which we get through our hard work.

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August 31, 2016, 01:59:42 PM
 #13

I dont really know if its a private property. But for me its a private property because you can keep it as long as you can. You can spend it and no one will get angry about that because its yours. I thinking of bitcoin like its a physical money that you can keep or spend.

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September 02, 2016, 07:41:59 PM
 #14

Remember, Bitcoin technically doesn't sit or move, what does move is the private bitcoin address, so all you technically own is that address, so if its in your control, you own it, i guess.
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September 03, 2016, 07:57:26 AM
 #15

Remember, Bitcoin technically doesn't sit or move, what does move is the private bitcoin address, so all you technically own is that address, so if its in your control, you own it, i guess.
A court will be pragmatic and look past this technicality. A bitcoin is a type of property -- a general intangible. Like a right to something.
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September 04, 2016, 05:46:55 AM
 #16

Each country, state, jurisdiction, etc have their own ways of classifying bitcoin.  Check with yours and see what you find.  Regardless of your local laws, having the private key to your bitcoin is essentially owning property. Good question.
Op's questions is something different than simply finding out if bitcoin is more a currency or rather a commodity or maybe something entirely new.

Personally, I don't think Op's train of thought is necessarily correct. I like to think that bitcoin IS my own private property and no one should have access to it.

That is why exploring possibilities of paradoxical situations like 2 users having the same private key or 2 addresses being identical is not productive.


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September 04, 2016, 10:11:10 AM
 #17

Remember, Bitcoin technically doesn't sit or move, what does move is the private bitcoin address, so all you technically own is that address, so if its in your control, you own it, i guess.
A court will be pragmatic and look past this technicality. A bitcoin is a type of property -- a general intangible. Like a right to something.

I think this topic requires a long open debate and there should be some consensus on how such an issue be tackled.We need some guidelines set by bitcoin community


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September 04, 2016, 08:21:38 PM
 #18

bitcoin is the property of those people who are owning it, if i have 30 bitcoins in my wallet so i am the owner of 30 bitcoins.
yes it is right to say, so it is a private property, and the government of any stare or any other organization or department or any other person is not the owner of bitcoin and every one the owner of bitcoin which he has.
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September 11, 2016, 01:22:12 AM
 #19

By possessing bitcoin,you get the right to hold,sell,spend or let it lay idle in your wallet>Once you lose it anyhow you also lose the right to claim its ownership
I get your point. But I'm not sure we should use the word "right" as a "positive right", as some people (governments) could enforce this right (and be aggressive toward some people).



I have one more example that could actually arise in reality:

> B sends money to A (and A sends "something" or some information to B). Then, we don't know why, everyone decides to change their Bitcoin rules and the result is that A can't get to spend his money in the new version.

So does A have a right to force other participants to use his arbitrary version of the Bitcoin, in order to be able to spend his money? I mean, could his justification of "I have the right to spend those bitcoins" be used while he attacks other people when trying to force them to change their stuff on their computers? I'm thinking about governments behavior and analogous justifications. Since I believe that bitcoins aren't priv. prop., that kind of justification is wrong.
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September 13, 2016, 06:49:21 PM
 #20

Yes, bitcoin is private property and anyone who takes my coins is a thief. Because the probability of someone accidentally generating my private keys is zero.


yes it is a fact that bitcoin is the property of the those people who are owning it,  it is not just like the fiat currency which is the property of the state and the  private property of the people.
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