My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[Rampion]

Guillotine and burning streets are the only reasonable answers to this.

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[Mike Christ]

But first you've got to get MAD

[zeroday]

i guess.. thats what you get for trying to avoid taxes.

Say this to thousands of Cypriots who just became jobless. I will continue my business in another country, but they just lost everything.

[MonsterZero]

Here in the US I'd know to never keep over 100k in a bank account, I think FDIC has been raised to 200k now since the financial crisis.  But why... oh why would you keep such a large amount in a single account?  The insurance is simply the cost of opening a few new free accounts.

[myrkul]

Here in the US I'd know to never keep over 100k in a bank account, I think FDIC has been raised to 200k now since the financial crisis.  But why... oh why would you keep such a large amount in a single account?  The insurance is simply the cost of opening a few new free accounts.

I'm guessing that this account fluctuated from very high to very low, over the course of a month, and it just had the misfortune of being caught at a high point.

[MoonShadow]

Considering how many Russian mafia fortunes were stolen, I wonder how long it will take before EU ministers are found dead in an alley with needles in their arms; or their grandkids are taken in retribution.  Really, Russian mobsters are the last group that I'd think that a bunch of socialist leaning politicos in Brussels would want to upset.

[justusranvier]

Considering how many Russian mafia fortunes were stolen, I wonder how long it will take before EU ministers are found dead in an alley with needles in their arms; or their grandkids are taken in retribution.  Really, Russian mobsters are the last group that I'd think that a bunch of socialist leaning politicos in Brussels would want to upset.

You didn't hear?  They all got out.

The banks involved all had branches in London and elsewhere and "accidentally" forgot to notify those branches about the freeze until all the Russian oligarchs finished cashing out.

[myrkul]

Considering how many Russian mafia fortunes were stolen, I wonder how long it will take before EU ministers are found dead in an alley with needles in their arms; or their grandkids are taken in retribution.  Really, Russian mobsters are the last group that I'd think that a bunch of socialist leaning politicos in Brussels would want to upset.

You didn't hear?  They all got out.

The banks involved all had branches in London and elsewhere and "accidentally" forgot to notify those branches about the freeze until all the Russian oligarchs finished cashing out.

Obligatory comment about buttered bread, and knowledge of the side it's buttered on.

[MoonShadow]

Considering how many Russian mafia fortunes were stolen, I wonder how long it will take before EU ministers are found dead in an alley with needles in their arms; or their grandkids are taken in retribution.  Really, Russian mobsters are the last group that I'd think that a bunch of socialist leaning politicos in Brussels would want to upset.

You didn't hear?  They all got out.

The banks involved all had branches in London and elsewhere and "accidentally" forgot to notify those branches about the freeze until all the Russian oligarchs finished cashing out.

Oh, I see.  So in the end, only the honest businesses, doctors, lawyers and such got the shaft.

That sounds about right. 

[zeroday]

Here in the US I'd know to never keep over 100k in a bank account, I think FDIC has been raised to 200k now since the financial crisis.  But why... oh why would you keep such a large amount in a single account?  The insurance is simply the cost of opening a few new free accounts.

I'm guessing that this account fluctuated from very high to very low, over the course of a month, and it just had the misfortune of being caught at a high point.

Exactly

[justusranvier]

Denninger can be a douche when it comes to some issues, but this is not one of them:

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219136

Ok folks, if you live in Cyprus and are one of the common people there, perhaps a "wealthy" person such as a businessowner but not one of the "connected few", now it has come out how you were screwed.

    Laiki Bank customers in the UK face no restrictions on access to their cash and have been told it is "business as usual" at the firm's four British branches, despite an overnight decision to close its Cyprus parent.

    ....

    Ruth Harvey of Laiki Bank in the UK said that although not all of the details of the impact of the agreement were known, there was no need for the 13,000 UK customers to panic. "We are open, it's business as usual, and there are no restrictions on our client's accounts," she said. "The message we want to get over to our customers is to keep calm and carry on."

So if you knew this and had the capability, you apparently could have moved all your money out of this Cyprus bank during the freeze.

I am willing to bet that if you are a Russian oligarch with a lot of money (formerly) in Cyprus you did exactly that. 

I'm also willing to bet that if you're a Cypriot citizen you probably didn't know this and as a result you got screwed since you could only get a couple hundred -- or even €100 -- at a time from an ATM.

And before you scream "but those rich people deserved it!" let me point out that business people with payroll accounts in these banks are utterly screwed and so are their workers, who worked in good faith and now there is no money to pay them with.

The details of this "program" are as yet not entirely certain, but history is that there is always a way by which the common man gets rooked and the privileged few do not.  This time it was blatantly "in your face"; along with the ECB and TARGET2 pledges of which there is no evidence that they will be zeroed along with common holders of bonds or stock it also appears that if you happened to be one of the "privileged few" you were also able to escape being "bailed in."

[myrkul]

Here in the US I'd know to never keep over 100k in a bank account, I think FDIC has been raised to 200k now since the financial crisis.  But why... oh why would you keep such a large amount in a single account?  The insurance is simply the cost of opening a few new free accounts.

I'm guessing that this account fluctuated from very high to very low, over the course of a month, and it just had the misfortune of being caught at a high point.

Exactly

One almost wonders if it wasn't planned to coincide with most payroll/active accounts being flush?

[killerstorm]

Special thanks to:

- Jeroen Dijsselbloem
- Angela Merkel
- Manuel Barroso
- the rest of officials of "European Comission"

You're barking at a wrong tree. Basically it is just a bank's fuck up.
Bank is insolvent, it cannot pay everybody.

Normally government steps in in such situations, but liabilities of Cypriot banks are way bigger than Cypriot government can afford.

So they asked EU for a loan... But EU does not want to cover total liabilities of Cypriot banks, they want to reduce such liabilities into a more manageable sum so that people held money in Cypriot banks will take some loss. Otherwise debt is unsustainable, I guess.

Without EU's bailout the only option is liquidation... It isn't true that bank is left with 0 assets, but it would take a lot of time to sell those assets, and in the end you'll probably get same 20%.

So you should not blame European Commission. Yes, they could help you more, but it is up to them. They did not steal your money.

It was oversight on your side to keep money in banks of a country with oversized banking sector. High liabilities to GDP ratio means that country cannot help its banking sector. Same thing happened to Iceland, although deal was different.

Anyway, if you want to keep money in offshore banks again, that means that you haven't learned the lesson.

[myrkul]

Special thanks to:

- Jeroen Dijsselbloem
- Angela Merkel
- Manuel Barroso
- the rest of officials of "European Comission"

You're barking at a wrong tree. Basically it is just a bank's fuck up.
Bank is insolvent, it cannot pay everybody.

Once again:

No:

Eurozone leaders and the IMF on Saturday announced an unprecedented levy on all deposits in Cypriot banks as the sting in the tail of a 10-billion-euro bailout for the near-bankrupt government in Nicosia.

Top ECB official Joerg Assmussen said the only way to drive down what was originally requested as a 17-billion-euro rescue was to claw back money from the Cypriot banking sector, which is estimated to hold assets worth five times the country's economic output.

Cyprus was in debt up to it's eyeballs, asked the ECB for money, and they said, "Sure, but we gotta get some of it from those bank accounts you guys have been sheltering."

[Nesetalis]

Taxes are a necessary evil in my opinion... and should be fair and balanced across the whole spectrum of citizens.

What's your opinion on monopolies?

I like paying for roads to drive on, and for petrol subsidies. I don't drive a car, but I know those things give me cheaper food.

Governments establish contracts with private businesses to build roads, provide oil, grow food, etc. These developments happen in the absence of government. All money used for productive means is only a portion of what flows through government; much is held as graft.

^^What he said^^

Wasn't discussing monopolies, but generally there should always be competition. As for the government paying private businesses... no shit? At the very base, what do you think a subsidy is? It is the government cutting off the bottom of a bill, saying "here, you have some free money now" and its up to the business to decide how to spend it. Many pass that back on to the customers, but not all.

I'm not going to argue with you over anarchy, if you believe anarchy works... go to one of the anarchist capitals of the world.. we have plenty of them (most of which are war torn hell holes, being dragged apart by warring bands and foreign corporations utilizing the material value where the local citizens cannot.) I personally prefer living in a slightly more organized society. That isn't to say that I am pro-nanny state, or love big government, I would much prefer a happy balance between social liberty, science based economy, and smoothly run democracy... But I'm sure I'll never see that in my life time. XD

[nyusternie]

It was oversight on your side to keep money in banks of a country with oversized banking sector. High liabilities to GDP ratio means that country cannot help its banking sector. Same thing happened to Iceland, although deal was different.

Anyway, if you want to keep money in offshore banks again, that means that you haven't learned the lesson.

but why are you assuming that he was using cyprus as a tax shelter? everything i've read so far in this thread has indicated to me that he was very much a part of this economy (having both local clients and employees / contractors). furthermore, he's stated several times that his form of account received NO interest whatsoever (so what was his incentive?).

i guess.. thats what you get for trying to avoid taxes.

Say this to thousands of Cypriots who just became jobless. I will continue my business in another country, but they just lost everything.

he talks about moving his business, not just his banking. so i'd like to assume that he plans to support the economy in whatever island nation he decides is worthy of his business.

i find it very cynical to say that everyone with over 100k in a cyprus bank was sheltering their money. i could very well be wrong, bus as far as i'm concerned, he's just one of the many honest businessman being punished for running a highly successful business (that just happened to be in "a country with oversized banking sector").

this isn't the first time and it surely won't be the last. lessons MUST be learned from this

[myrkul]

Taxes are a necessary evil in my opinion... and should be fair and balanced across the whole spectrum of citizens.

What's your opinion on monopolies?

I like paying for roads to drive on, and for petrol subsidies. I don't drive a car, but I know those things give me cheaper food.

Governments establish contracts with private businesses to build roads, provide oil, grow food, etc. These developments happen in the absence of government. All money used for productive means is only a portion of what flows through government; much is held as graft.

^^What he said^^

Wasn't discussing monopolies, but generally there should always be competition.

Government is a monopoly on the industries of Security and Justice. Taxation is how this monopoly is funded. I agree with you that there should always be competition, especially in those industries. Which is why I am an anarchist. Perhaps you would be more comfortable with the term Anti-monopolist.

[Third Way]

Small Caribbean country?


Puerto Rico?!?!?!

[The-Real-Link]

Condolences for your banking loss, OP.

While I can't speak from personal experience, I know several relatives and friends who run physical brick and mortar businesses.  For the most part, they'd laugh at $100K to do what needs to be done.  Most people I knew would be handling $500K+ a year; not all profit by a long shot (expenses, payroll, etc etc etc). 

As a couple posts above me said, yeah it looks like just the more successful local and unmovable businesses ended up footing the bill, which is all too sad.

Good luck on your new endeavors elsewhere, OP!

[edmundedgar]

This is all very sad, but does anyone else see the irony of "libertarians" accusing the EU of theft because its bailout of the banks that lost the money they voluntarily lent to them is too small?