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Author Topic: My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.  (Read 408446 times)
molecular
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August 19, 2014, 07:12:42 AM
 #1081

Im scared AF to cash out on my little Bitcoins I have, it's very scary to know they can froze your entire saving accounts out of nowhere. My friend tried to withdraw 0.5 BTC and he got his bank account frozen until they basically want to unfroze it. I'll have to re-check im doing it all perfect if I ever want to withdraw some BTC.

I wish people would stop referring to "selling BTC for fiat money" as "withdrawing BTC".

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molecular
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August 19, 2014, 07:13:20 AM
 #1082

I followed this when it happend, how did it turn out? Anything refunded?

First 100k was refunded, everything else is gone for good.

Is he now a proud shareholder of a respected bank?

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August 19, 2014, 07:14:14 AM
 #1083

I followed this when it happend, how did it turn out? Anything refunded?

First 100k was refunded, everything else is gone for good.

Ridiculous..

Yes, it's ridiculous. But make no mistakes: preparations are done in all western central-bank-controlled countries to pull this off on a larger scale.

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August 19, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
 #1084

I followed this when it happend, how did it turn out? Anything refunded?

First 100k was refunded, everything else is gone for good.

Is he now a proud shareholder of a respected bank?


A proud shareholder of dead bank Smiley
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August 19, 2014, 10:38:49 AM
 #1085

Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

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August 19, 2014, 10:46:25 AM
 #1086

Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html
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August 19, 2014, 10:59:25 AM
 #1087

Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

Quote
On 8 July, the Austrian Parliament passed legislation that allows the government to bail-in the subordinated debt holders of nationalised Hypo Alpe-Adria-Bank International AG (HAA) and void the deficiency guarantee of the State of Carinthia (A2 stable) on that portion of the bank's debt. From Moody's perspective, the government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee.
Source: https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Austrias-Law-on-Hypo-Alpe-Adria-is-credit-negative--PR_304468


Search more:
https://encrypted.google.com/#q=hypo+alpe-adria-bank+bail-in

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August 19, 2014, 11:05:14 AM
 #1088

Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html

So it wasn't bailed in with depositors' money, it was bailed in with bondholders' money.

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August 19, 2014, 11:26:35 AM
 #1089

Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html

So it wasn't bailed in with depositors' money, it was bailed in with bondholders' money.

I first heard this news from person who is affected. He stated that his money on Hypo-Alpe bank account is gone.

Anyway, Moody's confirmed that this is happening now in Western Europe:
Quote
The government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee
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August 19, 2014, 11:31:23 AM
 #1090

Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html

So it wasn't bailed in with depositors' money, it was bailed in with bondholders' money.

I first heard this news from person who is affected. He stated that his money on Hypo-Alpe bank account is gone.

Should be easy to find an actual news story saying so, if that is the case.

Quote
Anyway, Moody's confirmed that this is happening now in Western Europe:
Quote
The government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee

'Creditors' being the bondholders, not depositors.
The full paragraph:
Quote
Frankfurt am Main, July 22, 2014 -- On 8 July, the Austrian Parliament passed legislation that allows the government to bail-in the subordinated debt holders of nationalised Hypo Alpe-Adria-Bank International AG (HAA) and void the deficiency guarantee of the State of Carinthia (A2 stable) on that portion of the bank's debt. From Moody's perspective, the government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee.

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August 19, 2014, 11:45:09 AM
 #1091

This guy just lost 3 million Euros at a bank (BES) bankruptcy at Portugal, sorry this is video and in portuguese but can't find any english version:

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/videos/14179041

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August 19, 2014, 12:02:37 PM
 #1092

Just to add to this thread, here in Brazil we had in the 90's what we call here "confisco", where the president confiscated/blocked all accounts balance above 3k Us dollars approx. in todays values, after more than 20 years now this money still missed, many suicides happened that year.
This can happen anytime, any country...stay alert, invest your cash in something.
Bitcoin FTW!
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August 19, 2014, 01:29:05 PM
 #1093



The most of circulating assets on our business Current Account are blocked.
Over 700k of expropriated money will be used to repay country's debt. Probably we will get back about 20% of this amount in 6-7 years.

I'm not Russian oligarch, but just European medium size IT business. Thousands of other companies around Cyprus have the same situation.

The business is definitely ruined, all Cypriot workers to be fired.
We are moving to small Caribbean country where authorities have more respect to people's assets. Also we are thinking about using Bitcoin to pay wages and for payments between our partners.

Special thanks to:

- Jeroen Dijsselbloem
- Angela Merkel
- Manuel Barroso
- the rest of officials of "European Comission"



P.S. The worst thing is, that even a month ago I was suspecting that things can go wrong. In February, I several times called my banker and lawyer and asked them if money on the account is safe, mentioning that article in Financial Times. But they convinced me that there is no reason to worry, and even if country goes default, in no way current accounts may be affected. "This is European Union and banks here can't just grab your money and go" I was told.
I got a hard lesson and now I know the meaning of phrase "TRUST NO ONE".



[ 2013-04-01 11:32:19 PM Update ]
Quote
Deposits under €100,000 in Laiki will be transferred to the BoC. All deposits belonging to credit institutions, insurance companies, the government and other public bodies such as local authorities and municipal councils will also be carried over to the BoC. The same applies for charity foundations, schools and educational bodies and deposits belonging to the country’s main bank card transaction agency, JCC Payment Systems Ltd. Depositors who move from Laiki to the BoC are not part of the haircut.
The deposits that will not be transferred to the BoC will be part of a bad bank that will undergo resolution, i.e. an orderly wind down. Although the money will be there nominally, depositors will not have access to their money for an indefinite amount of time. As the bad bank slowly starts tidying up its account books cash would start going into the accounts, but the depositors could lose a substantial part of their savings if the bad bank fails to fully recoup all of its bad assets, as expected by analysts.
Source: cyprus-mail.com

Now we have untouchables whose accounts in Laiki Bank are not affected. This means that money expropriated from regular business, current and savings accounts will sponsor all other "tax exempt" accounts.


[ 2013-04-02 05:32:24 PM Update ]

I have news from a law company who are now working on class action lawsuit filed by the depositors of Laiki Popular Bank and The Bank of Cyprus.
At this moment they are gathering information from affected account holders with over 100k EUR amounts and looking for legal grounds to appeal the seizure of funds.

Our attorney assumes that, with the current situation, it is most likely that the depositors of Laiki Bank will eventually lose 100% of any amount over 100K EUR.
Although legal research is not yet finished, lawyers suspect that the whole situation with bailout is contrary to the constitution of Cyprus and the European Declaration of Human Rights.
We have already had precedents where local Cypriot lawyers backed by influential business figures have already won some small victories.

I'm asking everyone, who has affected account in Laiki Bank or The Bank Of Cyprus, to contact me regarding participation in the class action by sending me private message.



[ 2013-04-04 07:37:24 AM Update ]

Central Bank could face slew of lawsuits from depositors

Quote
LARGE depositors in Laiki Bank who face losing most if not all their money have warned they will take the Central Bank’s top brass to court if even one cent is taken out of their accounts.

The threat of legal action raises the spectre of the bailout programme unravelling in the courts, and slapping the state with massive sums in penalties.  

A lawyer representing a number of large depositors sent a letter to Central Bank Governor Panicos Demetriades last Thursday warning that if a haircut of any size was imposed on their deposits held at Laiki Bank, depositors will file a private criminal case against the governor, board members, and certain CB officials for allegedly committing “a number of criminal acts and omissions”.



[ 2013-04-10 06:41:50 AM Update ]
Today I've sold another part of my bitcoins and now I have money enough to completely pay off all our debts to customers and contractors.
Thanks to Lady Luck and Satoshi Nakamoto for the resurrection of my business!

I'm so inspired with bitcoin that I'm thinking about launching serious bitcoin related business project. Will announce it soon.



[ 2013-05-30 09:22:23 PM Update ]
The stealing of my money is now finalized.

Yesterday I looked at my Laiki account and found that frozen amount is not more shown on my balance.
100% of frozen funds is now appears as outgoing transaction to nobody with comment "DECREE".

Also there are some news from lawyers.

Quote
The Supreme Court has not announced its decision yet. It examines preliminary objections raised by the Attorney on a basis that the Law and the Order are political acts of the state (like decision to start war) and therefore cannot be examined or controlled by the Supreme Court and that the matter in issue should be considered as a private and not a public law matter.

Also, there is recent translation of the "Capital Controls imposing DECREE"



[ 2013-07-10 10:49:23 PM Update ]
"Blocked Funds" amount has finally disappeared from our Laiki account. Bank told me it's "waived" (their interpretation of word "stolen"). We won't receive any bank shares as compensation for confiscated amount since the bank is liquidated.
The rest of the money (100k EUR) are still subject to Capital Control and we can only transfer 5K monthly.

Today I had a conversation with a manager from Laiki Bank.
He has been honest and confirmed that we may forget about anything over 100K as it's already spent to pay country's debts. Also, I was warned that the financial situation in the country is getting worse and worse and we should be ready to lose even part of insured (under 100K) money during this year (this is why they keep capital control enforced).

By the way, this style of "bank restructuring" is going to be adopted in the whole European Union.
Soon, everyone's uninsured money (over 100K EUR) in EU banks will be at risk of seizure.



/the material in this post can be used on any resources without any restrictions/


trust in btc only as far as you can throw it. you gotta remember someone can crash the price of btc and screw thigns up. dont pay ppl in btc, pay them through bitpay or something where it converts it. let bitpay take the risk and they can deal with losing 400 bucks per bitcoin when it dips down.
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August 19, 2014, 02:40:06 PM
 #1094

By the way, this style of "bank restructuring" is going to be adopted in the whole European Union.
Soon, everyone's uninsured money (over 100K EUR) in EU banks will be at risk of seizure.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, and is not new.
Bank deposit guarantee schemes almost always have a limit on the amount guaranteed if the bank collapses.

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August 19, 2014, 10:41:53 PM
 #1095

This guy just lost 3 million Euros at a bank (BES) bankruptcy at Portugal, sorry this is video and in portuguese but can't find any english version:

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/videos/14179041

Oh yeah, it's starting to rumble and roll now ... if you still have sizable cash on deposit in banks you better get reading that fine print closely or prepare to get shafted, then robbed.

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August 20, 2014, 07:30:14 AM
Last edit: August 20, 2014, 07:46:38 AM by molecular
 #1096

Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

google in combination with knowledge of german language helpful:

Klagenfurt. So schnell kann es gehen: Nach der Unterschrift des Bundespräsidenten und Gegenzeichnung des Bundeskanzlers ist das umstrittene Hypo-Sondergesetz nun seit Nachmittag, 31. Juli, offiziell kundgetan. Nun hat die Finanzmarktaufsicht (FMA) zwei Wochen Zeit, die in Arbeit befindliche Umsetzungsverordnung zu erlassen.

Auf dem Verordnungsweg werden die vom Schuldenschnitt, der Mitte August anläuft, erfassten Anleihen benannt. Sie werden für erloschen erklärt. Dann darf von den Gegnern - also in erster Linie vom Schnitt betroffene Parteien - Beschwerde eingebracht werden, was zu erwarten ist.

Mit dem Sondergesetz für die staatliche Krisenbank Hypo Alpe Adria lässt die Republik Gläubiger von landesgarantierten Nachranganleihen im Volumen von 890 Mio. Euro bluten. Betroffene Anleihegläubiger und etliche Juristen sehen die Wertloserklärung der Verbindlichkeiten als Enteignung.

Zwar können Anleiheinvestoren auf die Herausgabe von Geldern erst klagen, wenn die jeweilige Bond-Tranche fällig ist. Verfassungs- und Feststellungsklagen sind aber schon früher möglich.

Etwa von der Weltbank, die in Hypo-Anleihen mit Kärntner Landesgarantie investiert ist, wird erwartet, dass sie vor Gericht auf ihren rechtlichen Sonderstatus verweist und sich wohl durchsetzt.

Im Gesetz ist auch die Einrichtung einer Abbaugesellschaft festgeschrieben.

You can use google-translate, but here are some bullet points:

  • it's about the "Hypo Alpe Adria" Bank. An austrian state bank.
  • federal chancellor and president of Austria have signed a special law to be effective mid-August
  • federal state (subdivisions of Austria, like in germany, for example: Kärnten) guranantees on bonds of the banks in the order of €890 million are "anihilated" by that new law
  • Those bonds are 'annulled' (for lack of better world) by that law
  • bondholders (for example the world bank) are not amused and expected to sue
  • they can sue once their respective bonds are due
  • the worldbank is expected to sue, pointing to it's exceptional legal status and expected to win
  • the new law also effects the founding of an organization to dismantle the bank

;tldr: Austrian state bank Hypo Alpe Adria goes belly up. State annuls bonds. bondholder World Bank will likely be made whole by taxpayer, though => mixed bail-in bail-out.
 


note how it says: "capable and trustworthy"?

(click image for more gems)

oh, and they are "publicly commited", too ;-)



Interesting: in May the sole owner (the austrian state) decided to replace its represantatives on the supervisory board of the bank.

hehe, and in April they had decided to increase the capital by 750 million EUR

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August 23, 2014, 02:50:28 AM
 #1097

By the way, this style of "bank restructuring" is going to be adopted in the whole European Union.
Soon, everyone's uninsured money (over 100K EUR) in EU banks will be at risk of seizure.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, and is not new.
Bank deposit guarantee schemes almost always have a limit on the amount guaranteed if the bank collapses.

Most people also don't have this much money to potentially lose money because of limits in bank guarantees. It is also not difficult to spread your money around different banks in a way so that the deposit guarantee limits would not affect you.
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August 28, 2014, 02:58:08 PM
 #1098

What a very painful situation?I can just imagine the heart ache you must be going through not been able to have access to your hard earned money all in the name of  new "Capital Control Law".

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August 28, 2014, 03:04:29 PM
Last edit: August 28, 2014, 05:31:47 PM by redsn0w
 #1099

By the way, this style of "bank restructuring" is going to be adopted in the whole European Union.
Soon, everyone's uninsured money (over 100K EUR) in EU banks will be at risk of seizure.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, and is not new.
Bank deposit guarantee schemes almost always have a limit on the amount guaranteed if the bank collapses.

Most people also don't have this much money to potentially lose money because of limits in bank guarantees. It is also not difficult to spread your money around different banks in a way so that the deposit guarantee limits would not affect you.

Yes  , that is correct . People must spread their money in various bank account how we doing with the different addresses for bitcoin .
Hustle2survive
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August 28, 2014, 05:30:41 PM
 #1100

Pretty scary. Save your shit on different banks and ofc btc
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