Beware of so-called "anonymous" coins (XMR, SDC, AEON and DASH)

[spartak_t]

@smoothie

Discussing with you is a waste of time so you can just accept that my IQ is equal to a room temperature, /thread and continue to cheerleading Monero elsewhere.

[smoothie]

Since you chose to run away from the issue and not even quote my original response, your's, and my clarified response refuting your claims...here it is...

To remind you what you said:

One can argue if the XMR growth can be called "organic", but my personal opinion is that this is a pure speculation.

What I said:

Op is flawed saying that monero's price growth is purely speculation.

At least some of the price rise is due to actual vendors accepting it for payment.

To be even more clear of my point refuting your original claim in the OP:

Op is flawed saying that monero's price growth is purely speculation.

At least some of the price rise is due to actual vendors accepting it for payment.

No, I'm not flawed, but looks like you are. I have asked a simple question:

What is the XMR volume on the DarkNet markets?

Because 99.7% of the current (shown) volume (~$65Mn)of XMR is on Poloniex and Bittrex. Se we have few scenarios:

1. People are buying Monero, because they have seen its usage on the DN markets (i.e. they actually saw it was heavily used).
2. People are "buying the news" of DN acceptance.
3. Number 2 + speculation.

Which one is it?  

You obviously have a difficult time admitting you are wrong.

Purely = 100%

The fact that people are accepting it for payment makes it not 100% speculative (added for emphasis).

The fact that I accept it for my physical coins also shows that it isn't used only for purely 100% speculation.

Sorry buddy you are wrong.

By dismissing my response as "getting defensive" and claiming you've proved your claim (with no actual proof I'm aware of that refutes my response to your claim) it would appear that you are getting defensive.

I have not "chearlead" for monero in a while.

Yeah I sell physical coins but I wouldn't consider my input on monero as of late as "cheerleading". But once again you are deflecting with suppositions of what I am and am not doing without actually having the decency to ask me if what I am doing is what you think I am doing (i.e. giving me the respect to speak for myself without attempting to put words in my mouth).

[bbc.reporter]

@smoothie

Quoting me 101 times would not prove you're the right one here. I'm not attacking your beloved Monero.

About the TA,

A true TA is impossible to be made on Bitcoin, because the market is too volatile. You need to research some specific patterns, which does not apply on Bitcoin. BTC for instance have some average price (seen on Coinmarketcap for example) , but it has big price difference on different exchanges. See what I mean:

BTC-E           BTC/USD      $602.10   
Bitfinex   BTC/USD      $607.70   
BitMEX   BTC/USD      $600.50   
OkCoin Intl.   BTC/USD      $604.28   
Bitstamp   BTC/USD      $599.62   

This would never happen with EURO/USD or USD/GOLD, or whatever. The market needs to be bigger.

I think you are mistaken again. Is it not the job of the trader who uses technical analysis to include volatility in his strategy? Or is your statement all based only on your own experience? Because there are many traders out there who are making money with the present volatility while using technical analysis.

@smoothie. Do you have the numbers and statistics available on how much XMR is accepted in the darknet? For me the rise is more because of XMR speculation because maybe the buying and selling of items with XMR is not that big yet. I could be wrong but I would like to see the numbers and the data to be sure.

[generalizethis]

@smoothie

Quoting me 101 times would not prove you're the right one here. I'm not attacking your beloved Monero.

About the TA,

A true TA is impossible to be made on Bitcoin, because the market is too volatile. You need to research some specific patterns, which does not apply on Bitcoin. BTC for instance have some average price (seen on Coinmarketcap for example) , but it has big price difference on different exchanges. See what I mean:

BTC-E           BTC/USD      $602.10   
Bitfinex   BTC/USD      $607.70   
BitMEX   BTC/USD      $600.50   
OkCoin Intl.   BTC/USD      $604.28   
Bitstamp   BTC/USD      $599.62   

This would never happen with EURO/USD or USD/GOLD, or whatever. The market needs to be bigger.

I think you are mistaken again. Is it not the job of the trader who uses technical analysis to include volatility in his strategy? Or is your statement all based only on your own experience? Because there are many traders out there who are making money with the present volatility while using technical analysis.

@smoothie. Do you have the numbers and statistics available on how much XMR is accepted in the darknet? For me the rise is more because of XMR speculation because maybe the buying and selling of items with XMR is not that big yet. I could be wrong but I would like to see the numbers and the data to be sure.

What I'm watching is the daily BTC % of total CC transactions--it's small (0.1 a day) but it is a fight. The Dash sucking out was more pronounced, but some still blindly put their faith in mixers--my guess are dealers and vendors win and the XMR starts to circulate at wider and wider dispersal rates.

[spartak_t]

I think you are mistaken again. Is it not the job of the trader who uses technical analysis to include volatility in his strategy?

Like I said, BTC market is too volatile and very often it does not follow certain patterns, which are important "tools" to use while making TA.

[bbc.reporter]

I think you are mistaken again. Is it not the job of the trader who uses technical analysis to include volatility in his strategy?

Like I said, BTC market is too volatile and very often it does not follow certain patterns, which are important "tools" to use while making TA.

Is there such a thing as "too volatile" in trading? What are you saying that no trader can use technical analysis no matter how good they are because "it does not work" and also because there is not enough "organic growth"? Well there is a LOT of volatility in penny stocks and there is NO organic growth in them, they are traded for speculative value, so why are there profitable day traders trading them for a living?

[spartak_t]

Comparing penny stocks market with Bitcoin is like comparing Apple/Samsung with a local phone shop. And it is not a good example since TA on penny stocks has its pros and cons.

[bbc.reporter]

Comparing penny stocks market with Bitcoin is like comparing Apple/Samsung with a local phone shop. And it is not a good example since TA on penny stocks has its pros and cons.

What are you talking about? Trading is trading, there's the price, the volume and the movement of the market. This is not rocket science and it all can be analyzed using technical analysis. Some traders even trade across all stocks, commodities and forex. Do not tell me these are all the same to you. Also may I point out those 3 have different ranges of volatility it is up to the trader to adjust if he really is good at trading.

[spartak_t]

Look buddy, I have broker certificate "A" from Sofia Commodity exchange since 2003, so I know a thing or two about trading. But this is not the subject of the thread.

P.S. Anyway, you can make some research and you'll see that I'm right.

[bbc.reporter]

Look buddy, I have broker certificate "A" from Sofia Commodity exchange since 2003, so I know a thing or two about trading. But this is not the subject of the thread.

P.S. Anyway, you can make some research and you'll see that I'm right.

Then you must suck as a trader if you have that certificate and still think that way. Most professional day traders would love to trade this kind of volatility like the altcoin market has. I suspect some of them might be trading in the cryptosphere now.

Also if you are a broker it does not mean you are a good trader. It just means you have a license to take orders from your clients and bosses in the commodity market.

[spartak_t]

And what is that I am thinking? That not a single "professional" trader can perform a true TA on Bitcoin or altcoins? And this makes me a lousy trader? Come on, be serious.

[bbc.reporter]

And what is that I am thinking? That not a single "professional" trader can perform a true TA on Bitcoin or altcoins? And this makes me a lousy trader? Come on, be serious.

I know, you already made your point. But it does not mean you are right. Having a brokers license does not make you an authority in the matter. I find it also funny that a guy with a brokers license started "fail coin" and expect to be taken seriously.

[spartak_t]

1. I am right and you will understand that if you at least try to do some research.
2. Do you think that the FailArmy YouTube channel for example could be taken seriously?



They only have 11.4 million subscribers and over 3.1 billion views. Not to mention Jukin media (which owns FailArmy) with over 40 million subscribers and 14 billion views on YouTube alone.

You are not the first one mocking with FAIL and this serves you no good. We are nice people, we don't deserve such attitude, and if you think about it a bit more, then you'll realize that FAIL has a better potential than probably 90% of the alts.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Use "anonymous" coins to invest and make money not to buy hookers and blow with. 

[Vlad2Vlad]

And what is that I am thinking? That not a single "professional" trader can perform a true TA on Bitcoin or altcoins? And this makes me a lousy trader? Come on, be serious.

TA is pointless especially when you have manipulation. 

[spartak_t]

TA is pointless especially when you have manipulation. 

No shit?

[dinofelis]

Is there such a thing as "too volatile" in trading? What are you saying that no trader can use technical analysis no matter how good they are because "it does not work" and also because there is not enough "organic growth"? Well there is a LOT of volatility in penny stocks and there is NO organic growth in them, they are traded for speculative value, so why are there profitable day traders trading them for a living?

Technical analysis is rationally BS, but it is a self-fulfilling prophecy if enough people trading the stuff follow it.  So technical analysis "works", but only if enough of your peers think that it works and use it (and if at the same time, there is still enough uncorrelated noise from "newbies" to take profits from).  There must be some optimal mix of traders using TA, and newbies not using TA, for TA to "work" (that is, bring profit to the one using it).  If you are using the "wrong" TA (that is, a small minority in a certain asset trading club), then you are a "newbie" in that circle, because you will just be to-be-ripped-off noise on top of a correlated movement.

You can very easily simulate this in toy models.

[bbc.reporter]

1. I am right and you will understand that if you at least try to do some research.
2. Do you think that the FailArmy YouTube channel for example could be taken seriously?



They only have 11.4 million subscribers and over 3.1 billion views. Not to mention Jukin media (which owns FailArmy) with over 40 million subscribers and 14 billion views on YouTube alone.

You are not the first one mocking with FAIL and this serves you no good. We are nice people, we don't deserve such attitude, and if you think about it a bit more, then you'll realize that FAIL has a better potential than probably 90% of the alts.

I rest my case.

I will not argue with you anymore and we have both made our points clear. I am happy with that. Let us just agree to disagree and be on our way.

[Vlad2Vlad]

TA is pointless especially when you have manipulation. 

No shit?

No shit.  lol.

Many traders here don't get it somehow. 

[spartak_t]

I rest my case. 

I rest my case long time ago. 2 more guys implied on why you just can't perform TA on altcoins. And even Bitcoin (that's just my opinion).