The battle over online privacy (Dash / Monero / Zcash)

[qwizzie]

http://cryptohustle.com/the-battle-over-online-privacy







Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet and that Dash privacy solution is totally optional.  

Interesting article from Alan Struna (please read it completely), it could have huge implications for a certain cryptocurrency that just got added as currency on darknet.
Direct association with darknet = Full attention of the FBI

Update :

Direct link to EFF article that was quoted: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government
Credits : alanshore

I suspect this will provide some need for discussion, so please discuss  

[arielbit]

http://cryptohustle.com/the-battle-over-online-privacy





Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet... 

Interesting article, could have huge implications for a certain cryptocurrency that just got added as currency on darknet.
Direct association with darknet = Full attention of the FBI

Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet... 

sour grapes?

or

losers and quitters..didn't even have the chance to perform.

XMR cryptonote technology is on stage now...we will see if it can hold its defenses...go anonymous crypto currency! go monero!

[arielbit]

can we please just put volyova on ignore, he already proven to be a troll and he is cluttering up this forum
with his troll posts and the replies he get.

thank you.

Thanks for the heads up, done! 

http://cryptohustle.com/the-battle-over-online-privacy





Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet... 

Nice catch here, very interesting, it would partialy explain some of the recent exit pumps.

On another note what's up with BTC? Any guesses?

I have said it many times... We should never court or market to the darknet or Deep Web.  That is not where our future lies.   Let others cater to that market if they wish.

you must have a new variety in your vineyard called "sour grapes" LOL

i bet it is the darknet or deep web who wanted the technology, so they must be the one doing the courting hehe

anyway, if darknet people wanted to use dash they will use it if they want to, there's nothing you can do about it. so if you don't want people to be anonymous/private, why not remove private send and stop your masternodes from mixing coins?.. and then dash will become just like any other shitcoin out there with fast coin transfers and shiny GUI?  haha

[arielbit]

so much whining here  

makes me wonder... when darkcoin took/stole dashcoin's name, darkcoin should have migrated to dashcoin's superior cryptonote blockchain instead of just taking the name...maybe darkcoin aka dash now might still have a chance against monero haha

it's over RIP xcoin/darkcoin/dash... back to 5 million market cap .

Why are you still hanging round here?

Because he (and many others in the crypto-space) want to see the DASH network destroyed.

It's just the fighting fase... you know what's next  

yeah keep fighting..and oh, dream on guys .... here's another song for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRNSeuvzlM

Every time I look in the forum
All these lines on my thread getting clearer
The past is gone
It went by like dusk to dawn

Isn't that the way?
Everybody's got their dues in life to pay

Yeah, I know nobody knows
Where it comes and where it goes
I know it's everybody's sin
You got to lose to know how to win

Half my life's in DASH' written pages
Live and learn from trolls and from mermaids
You know it's true
All the things come back to you

DASH with me, DASH for the year
DASH for the laughter, DASH for the tear
DASH with me if it's just for today
Maybe tomorrow the good Lord will take you away

Yeah, DASH with me, DASH for the year
DASH for the laughter, DASH for the tear
DASH with me if it's just for today
Maybe tomorrow the good Lord will take you away

Dream on, dream on, dream on,
Dream yourself a dream come true
Dream on, dream on, dream on,
Dream until your dreams come true

Dream on, dream on, dream on,
Dream on, dream on,
Dream on, dream on, ah

DASH with me, DASH for the year
DASH for the laughter, DASH for the tear
DASH with me if it's just for today
Maybe tomorrow, the good Lord will take you away
DASH with me, DASH for the year
DASH for the laughter, DASH for the tear
DASH with me just for today
Maybe tomorrow, the good Lord will take you away...

[qwizzie]

for the sake of this thread's readability, it would be nice to stay somewhat on topic and avoid unnecessary long posts.

[alanshore]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

[arielbit]

Please note, I say this with much love to the Dash community as I have witnessed you taking the brunt of the attacks so much of this does not apply directly to you. As this is a plea for both communities and is also posted in the Monero thread, I feel the need to post it here as well.


I am a long time lurker and holder of both Monero and Dash. I have made a lot of money holding both but making money has never been the goal. 80% of my cash worth is spread between both currencies because I do not like the direction in which our world is moving and I want to ensure that myself and the people I care about are well taken care of when the facade that now envelopes our society is finally lifted.

I have a plea for both the Monero and Dash communities.


The world markets are at all time highs, standing on a cliff, held steady only by increasingly desperate central banks and supported by governments that have yet to realize that neo-classical economics has failed. Well-intentioned but poorly executed ideas such as the ACA and Eurozone Refugee Policy continue to disintegrate and the media conglomerates appear dedicated to perpetuating fear so they can pad their margins. Our elected leaders are now preying upon this fear to usurp our freedoms and those campaigning for office are using this fear to manipulate their way into power. It is clear that the status quo will not change willingly and will turn to increasingly extreme measures to maintain their control. Our world is in a precarious situation but our involvement in Monero and Dash does allow us to do something about it.

I believe that until recently, true freedom and democracy has not been possible. It is only now, due to advances in technology and novel ideas such as the blockchain and DAO's, that we finally have the tools to ensure our freedom, regardless of what legislation our corrupt and misguided governments decide to pass in the public's "best interest".

The only way to solve many of the problems we face is to create technology that is impervious to government intervention. Where the people get to choose how they wish to transact and what they choose to purchase in complete privacy. I know there is continuous debate regarding which technology is more secure, or scalable, or a multitude of other things but I think the one thing both communities can agree on is they are both vast improvements over fiat transactions and even bitcoin.

The announcement from Jaxx regarding the required removal of Dash from their iOS wallet is a perfect example of the uphill battle anonymous currencies are facing.

https://twitter.com/diiorioanthony/status/771017555930705920
https://twitter.com/diiorioanthony/status/771033721881362432

While both technologies are taking different approaches to creating a digital equivalent of cash, the greatest hurdle they face will be adoption and this will not happen if the current powers that be continue to discriminate against them. This hurdle becomes a lot smaller if both communities work together.

Right now, the combined marketcap of Monero and Dash is ~200 mil which is miniscule compared to the entrenched systems. In fact, the entire marketcap of the top 100 crypto's is only 11 billion. I trade the S&P eMini during the day and on average, in the last minute of regular market trading, 50+ billion dollars worth of contracts will change hands. In one minute, five times more money changes hands than the top 100 cryptos combined marketcap.

Monero and Dash are currently the two rats in the corner fighting over a crumb while the corrupt banks and remittance companies sit at the table and feast on the entire pie. If we work together, we can have a real shot at taking a larger slice of the pie (while actually benefiting society) and believe me, there is more than enough to go around.

If you are just in Monero or Dash to make a quick buck, I imagine you stopped reading some time ago. If you are still here, I urge you to expand your scope of thinking and imagine what could be accomplished if both currencies were to cooperate.

If I dare to dream, I would envision a future where there are XMR and DASH trading pairs on exchanges, where we encourage others to use both networks, where the communities help test each others releases, where they combine forces to help both get added as payment options for major services and where ideas on how to improve both currencies are openly shared and discussed. If anyone is open to creating a new bitcointalk thread for mutual and friendly discussion of both cryptos, I think that would be a great first step.

We are all in this battle together and I believe the only way we can fail is by remaining divided. The real enemy is the entrenched systems that dictate our lives. Please do your part to help create a more cooperative environment, regardless of your opinion on which technology is superior.

well said.. but you should  consider the element of competition..it is healthy overall, each side pointing flaws and making/innovating to outclass each other.

i dont see a way to make them work together since they have different blockchain tech, dash is from bitcoin and monero is cryptonote.

and i like you to think if there is a winner, i mean there is only one anon coin used by people, the development and capitalization will also become concentrated to one.

the weaker tech should be discarded because it will be just pulling down crypto advancement in general.

[obit33]

Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet and that Dash privacy solution is totally optional.  

I lolled so hard at this, wtf, this is the best joke ever...

come on man, you can't be serious...

now Dash is better cuz the privacy is optional... newsflash, xmr's privacy is optional too, with the viewkey...

you know why those dnm's didn't choose Dash, cuz the privacy features are inherently flawed, not optional, but flawed...


I really wonder if you were able to keep a straight face when starting this topic... I lolled really hard, thank you!

best regards

[flipme]

You forgot to mention
VCASH
ZCASH isn't finished, Monero and DASH have bad limitations.

[qwizzie]

You forgot to mention
VCASH
ZCASH isn't finished, Monero and DASH have bad limitations.

sorry flipme, but that article of which i put the link up in my first post is not written by me and it just
refers to those three cryptocurrencies.

[qwizzie]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

thank you for that link, i will add it to my first post

[Abiky]

You forgot to mention
VCASH
ZCASH isn't finished, Monero and DASH have bad limitations.

Yeah it will be a race among which will be the most popular anon crypto and the most accepted among darknet markets. In my opinion, I think that most of them are full of hype. However, it is up to debate whenever any of these cryptocurrencies truly deliver strong anonymity or not. I have the feeling that once ZCash blockchain comes to the public, it will be full of hype and we will expect to see massive pumps during its first days. No offense, it is just my opinion. 

[alanshore]

Here is a great interview with Snowden, Greenwald and Noam Chomsky discussing privacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L60LU8LIi0M

When speaking about anonymous cryptos to outsiders and newcomers that are concerned with the implications of online anonymous purchases, this is a great link to send them.

Edward Snowden, Glen Greenwald and Noam Chomsky are examples of how we should conduct ourselves. Maybe you do not agree with or like one of the individuals but the way they conduct themselves is always productive. Even when I have seen them disagree with other people or opinions, their conduct remains professional because they see the bigger picture and they know what is at stake.

We too can have professional conversations about competing technologies but right now, the way the conversations have been going leaves much to be wanted.

If Snowden, Greenwald or Chomsky were to look through these forums and see some of the comments, they would be extremely disappointed that we are at the forefront of amazing technology and are squandering this opportunity to have a profound change on our civilization due to our greed of wanting our individual coin to succeed and the others fail.

There are many privacy and encryption technologies that compete and manage to do so without the emotional and childish outbursts that plague nearly every coins thread.

Think about this. Several have stated our battle for online private transactions is only beginning and I completely agree. We haven't faced the full onslaught of a government attack on our networks or the transfer of fiat to anonymous currencies. When that time comes though, the only way we will succeed is through multiple communities working together. We will need redundancies in place in case one currency falls so that at the very least, online private transactions can continue.

If you can't see this, please expand your scope of thinking and realize just as we need decentralized currencies, we need decentralized "options" of which currencies to use. There can never be just one or it creates the very same problem it was created to fix.


Thank you so much for creating this thread qwizzie. I look forward to seeing how this develops and will be thrilled if it results in some new ideas for improving Dash, Monero and Zcash or at the very least helps to foster a new sense of solidarity.

[generalizethis]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

It's called vetting, and no it's not the bad guy in this little play; you get 1984 when you don't mercilessly analyze systems for flaws--or claims that aren't in line with reality. 

[bbc.reporter]

You forgot to mention
VCASH
ZCASH isn't finished, Monero and DASH have bad limitations.

It is very easy to say that this or that is "limited" without first explaining how vcash's chain blender anonymizes its transactions. If you can give us a simple lay man's term explanation, that will be appreciated. Then we could all start discussing vcash and its comparison with the rest.

[dinofelis]

Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet and that Dash privacy solution is totally optional.  

This is a big no-go in anonymity: it shouldn't be optional.   This is like saying that anonymity on the public road is optional: you can put a bag over your head when walking in the street.  True, but you will be easily spotted, with your bag over your head.

Anonymity shouldn't be an option, but it should be automatic, and *lifting* anonymity should be an option.  This is like the old paper mail system: you can send an envelope and you don't need to put your sender's address on the envelope.  You may do so if you wish ; you can write whatever you want on the return address if you wish.  The contents is private too, unless one opens the envelope.  So MOST paper mail was private in some sense.  You weren't a suspect because you put your letter in an envelope or because you wrote "Jack Johnson" on the sender's place.  Everybody put their letters in a closed envelope, so yours didn't stand out.

With a bag on your head in the street, you stand out as a suspect.

With e-mail, this failed.  e-mail was open and clear for all routers and servers.  When PGP came, as an OPTION, it wasn't generally adopted.  Not many people use PGP.  Some do, and I'm pretty sure they stand out as suspect.

e-mail totally screwed the privacy of paper letters.  All the privacy problems that occurred with e-mail are due to the fact that privacy was only a option.  Hell, ask Hillary !   If we're not careful, bitcoin is like e-mail.  Dash is like bitcoin, providing something like PGP for those who "have to hide something".

[arielbit]

dash "partly private" blockchain is a security hole itself

Ariel, I'm going to be polite.

You do not consider that the Monero block chain is unverifiable because it is completely opaque. If you want to "trust the math" and believe no loop hole will ever exist allowing coins to be inserted, changing the supply of coins, or that "the math" will never have an unforeseen hole where transactions will be detangled, something that can't happen with private send, that is fine.

However, an open blockchain, with inputs and outputs that can be seen with the naked eye, and verified is one of the cornerstones of Bitcoin's brilliance.  And Dash kept that while also providing privacy.

Because of that, I personally think Dash's privacy feature is far superior to Monero's.  Dash is solid.  You know where everything stands at any time.

And yet, once again, Dash's superior privacy, fungibility and verifiable blockchain is only one of the many features Dash provides in creating a world class currency that will be used by a majority of the human population in only half a generation's time.  But good luck with Monero, but if you want to use your funds for illegal purposes, please use a minimum 8 rounds of mixing in Dash, and leave the Monero at home.  I really don't trust it, and fear for your safety.

You think you know it all, you think you can trust "the math" but these cryptographic proofs have weaknesses that can be exploited.  Some have been discovered, as in secp256r1, and there could be other weaknesses that have yet to be revealed.

If you want to "trust the math"

yes, we want to trust the math. that is what cryptography is for..is what crypto currency is for.

back to privacy..
i can compare dash blockchain now to the internet, at first you thought that the internet is private but then it is not...then tor was created, it made the internet "PARTLY PRIVATE" ... didn't we heard of government being able to successfully trace in tor? yes it did happen and it is in the news.

[coinism]

can't they all coexist?

[smoothie]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

The majority of discussion has been using facts to base claims about Dash and Monero.

"Bashing" is the term used when the opposing side of the discussion does not like how the discussion is going so they play the victim card.

[bbc.reporter]

can't they all coexist?

My opinion is they can but they won't. It also better if developers compete with each other so they can improve their coins much faster and come up with the best open source technology for everyone to use in the cryprosphere. Also the drama is very entertaining.