DIY PCB with AVALON: "The Quarter Stick" - Needs Help!

[neslekkim]

I bougth this kit so I can try breadboarding a chip:

http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=3000029

It was a setback that the dip-pins are smt mounted as well, so some alignment woes there..

[fruitrunner]

that stencil looks like a good investment.
I think I will get me one:

http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=3200029

[greaterninja]

I work in the semi conductor industry.

i think a group buy with pcba packaging should be done. I am estimating cost to put 10,000 chips on PCB would be $5-10,000 USD.  Thats for 100+ cards.

[ektwr]

In my opinion, KiCad is free but eagle has 3D capabilities for part placement adjustments.
You can see my article here-->http://www.scribd.com/doc/139222619/what-cad-software-you-use-for-your-diy-pcb-miner

I have access to it through my friend's electronic lab.
My question is: what is the schematic for avalon's to work with?
TIA

[BkkCoins]

In my opinion, KiCad is free but eagle has 3D capabilities for part placement adjustments.
You can see my article here-->http://www.scribd.com/doc/139222619/what-cad-software-you-use-for-your-diy-pcb-miner

I have access to it through my friend's electronic lab.
My question is: what is the schematic for avalon's to work with?
TIA

If you're asking what they used for the Avalon I believe it's Altium Designer. I used that a long time ago and thought it was much better than Eagle. I'm sure it costs a bundle too. I live in Thailand it's readily available on street corners and malls, but I really do prefer to use Linux and so despite Kicad having some failings it's the one I working with - others can easily grab it and use it to edit open source hardware.

[rassalas]

also stumbled upon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G1IfYguQLQ

$8 - 10 per board

This one $5.95 looks similar to above. http://www.adafruit.com/products/1162

So backside attach thermal paste + heatsink should be sufficient i guess.

It might work,  I'd rather design my own, and make sure there's thermal contact to the back surface.
for a first pass testing rig it could work.   The problem in my view is the definitive data sheet for the die will likely
not be finalized until someone gets a few chips fab'd and can test them on a bench.  So having a few of these ready
on hand could be useful. for quick breadboarding.

[SebastianJu]

In order to take the heat from the other side of the pcb is there a special pcb needed for this or is it normal that pcb transport heat good?

[BkkCoins]

In order to take the heat from the other side of the pcb is there a special pcb needed for this or is it normal that pcb transport heat good?

The FR4 fibreglass of the board is a poor heat conductor. So what is often done is a grid of vias are punched through in a small area to create metal plated pathways for heat through the board. These are called "thermal vias", and it's what I've done under each ASIC on K16. There is a 5x5 grid (25 vias) under each chip. I'm totalling about 1000 vias on the board now.

[SebastianJu]

In order to take the heat from the other side of the pcb is there a special pcb needed for this or is it normal that pcb transport heat good?

The FR4 fibreglass of the board is a poor heat conductor. So what is often done is a grid of vias are punched through in a small area to create metal plated pathways for heat through the board. These are called "thermal vias", and it's what I've done under each ASIC on K16. There is a 5x5 grid (25 vias) under each chip. I'm totalling about 1000 vias on the board now.

Thanks for clearing this up...

Someone told me that a CE-sign for import into EU is only needed for ready to run-products. In case the boards are assembled but without ASICs the ce probably isnt needed. I mean the receiver hast to add the asics at the end. But i would like if someone with more knowledge could say something about.

[Knecke]

In order to take the heat from the other side of the pcb is there a special pcb needed for this or is it normal that pcb transport heat good?

The FR4 fibreglass of the board is a poor heat conductor. So what is often done is a grid of vias are punched through in a small area to create metal plated pathways for heat through the board. These are called "thermal vias", and it's what I've done under each ASIC on K16. There is a 5x5 grid (25 vias) under each chip. I'm totalling about 1000 vias on the board now.

Thanks for clearing this up...

Someone told me that a CE-sign for import into EU is only needed for ready to run-products. In case the boards are assembled but without ASICs the ce probably isnt needed. I mean the receiver hast to add the asics at the end. But i would like if someone with more knowledge could say something about.

It has to come without a psu, then there is no need for a CE sign.
The rest can be fully assembled.

[SebastianJu]

In order to take the heat from the other side of the pcb is there a special pcb needed for this or is it normal that pcb transport heat good?

The FR4 fibreglass of the board is a poor heat conductor. So what is often done is a grid of vias are punched through in a small area to create metal plated pathways for heat through the board. These are called "thermal vias", and it's what I've done under each ASIC on K16. There is a 5x5 grid (25 vias) under each chip. I'm totalling about 1000 vias on the board now.

Thanks for clearing this up...

Someone told me that a CE-sign for import into EU is only needed for ready to run-products. In case the boards are assembled but without ASICs the ce probably isnt needed. I mean the receiver hast to add the asics at the end. But i would like if someone with more knowledge could say something about.

It has to come without a psu, then there is no need for a CE sign.
The rest can be fully assembled.

Good to know... so theoretically it wouldnt even matter when heatsinks and asics are on it? Do you know this for sure, its not only your believe? Would be great if so... another stone out of the way then.
I wonder why Avalon then didnt send out the miner without psu from the start. Everyone could have gotten a psu for itself and Avalon wouldnt have to handle with CE and so.

[allten]

Found a name I really like.

I want to call this thing "The Quarter Stick"

With the release of Avalon spec's and the engineering advancements from
BKKcoins on the Klondike, the design is nearing completion. The Quarter Stick
and the Klondike are very similar other than the number of chips and a few
goodies to support maximum current draw from the USB port and possibly
support external power as well for those that want to push the chip to the
max.

Anyways, between job and family, this hasn't moved as fast as anyone would like
including myself. There's still a ton of emails I never answered.....sorry.
Please try again if you like.

To help speed thinks up, I need an Eagle PCB designer. Someone that can help
speed up layout. Please shoot me an email if you could make it happen in the
next few days.

I need just a few more days to critique the design, update Bill of Materials, and
have it peer reviewed then it is off to designing the PCB. With the right help, it
could be done a few days to a week.

Next PCB design, I'm going with KICAD. Don't know how hard it will be to make it
work, but its open source.

[allten]

Latest update for peer review:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dstypt5mqgeiz5y/DIY_AVALON.sch.0.3.pdf?v=0swn

Please let me know what you guys think.

There might be a thing or two more I would like to nitpick, but this is pretty close to final.

Thanks

[BkkCoins]

Latest update for peer review:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dstypt5mqgeiz5y/DIY_AVALON.sch.0.3.pdf?v=0swn

Please let me know what you guys think.

There might be a thing or two more I would like to nitpick, but this is pretty close to final.

Thanks

I had a look and didn't notice anything I would change.

Next PCB design, I'm going with KICAD. Don't know how hard it will be to make it
work, but its open source.

I've found Kicad really slow and cumbersome to work with, and prefer Eagle. It's great it's open source and free. But if you already have a non-limited version of Eagle, I don't know if I'd change. I think I wasted a lot of time working around glitches and limitations in Kicad. And it still randomly exits now and then, so I have to be Ctrl-S paranoid. That said, I couldn't have done 4 layers without it and others can edit in 4 layers without paying.

If you do change I'd recommend re-drawing rather than converting from Eagle. The conversion didn't go well as it mishandled size and position values such that it can only be edited without snap, ie. maximum resolution. It's very hard to get wires to connect as they have to be exactly on the same pixel. So best to do before laying out a board. I believe many of my editing issues probably originate from the conversion. A better conversion program is needed.

Also, there are a couple tricks I worked out for doing the thermal pads/vias in Kicad. PM me for info if you do use Kicad.

[daemondazz]

@BkkCoins - Have you tried the GEDA suite? www.geda-project.org

[BkkCoins]

@BkkCoins - Have you tried the GEDA suite? www.geda-project.org

No. How does it compare to Kicad? I've seen mentions of it.

I won't be changing now but future projects I'll re-evaluate - try from scratch in Kicad to decide if it's truly a hassle or if it was just the conversion that mucked it up. One of the hassles I had was that power symbols did not behave as net names. So I had to go and label every power symbol manually so they would connect together. Really dumb.

[daemondazz]

I've used it for a couple of projects, including an IO expansion board for the Raspberry Pi that we had manufactured in China: http://vk5hz.com/projects/rasberry-pi-serial-io-board/

Definitely a power user tool, but I've been happy with it.

[ProfMac]

Latest update for peer review:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dstypt5mqgeiz5y/DIY_AVALON.sch.0.3.pdf?v=0swn

Please let me know what you guys think.

There might be a thing or two more I would like to nitpick, but this is pretty close to final.

Thanks

I have some rudimentary Eagle skill.

I wonder if I can get a copy of the Eagle files for this?

[fasmax]

Hello
I looked over your  schematic it looks good.
I have two questions.
First the Avalon reset.
It looks like the PIC controls the reset. Can you guarantee on power up a low level on ARST until the PIC removes the reset?
Second question. Schematic says 10UF max input capacitance. Do you know the input capacitance of your design?
Good job!
Thanks!

[allten]

Latest update for peer review:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dstypt5mqgeiz5y/DIY_AVALON.sch.0.3.pdf?v=0swn

Please let me know what you guys think.

There might be a thing or two more I would like to nitpick, but this is pretty close to final.

Thanks

I had a look and didn't notice anything I would change.

Next PCB design, I'm going with KICAD. Don't know how hard it will be to make it
work, but its open source.

I've found Kicad really slow and cumbersome to work with, and prefer Eagle. It's great it's open source and free. But if you already have a non-limited version of Eagle, I don't know if I'd change. I think I wasted a lot of time working around glitches and limitations in Kicad. And it still randomly exits now and then, so I have to be Ctrl-S paranoid. That said, I couldn't have done 4 layers without it and others can edit in 4 layers without paying.

If you do change I'd recommend re-drawing rather than converting from Eagle. The conversion didn't go well as it mishandled size and position values such that it can only be edited without snap, ie. maximum resolution. It's very hard to get wires to connect as they have to be exactly on the same pixel. So best to do before laying out a board. I believe many of my editing issues probably originate from the conversion. A better conversion program is needed.

Also, there are a couple tricks I worked out for doing the thermal pads/vias in Kicad. PM me for info if you do use Kicad.

Thanks for the feed back. Maybe I don't want to rush into KICAD.
Just interested in working in an environment where more people can get involved.