so are we allowed to post in investor based games anymore or not?

[vigory]

seen plenty of sites lately in this period of time, looking better than most of the junk in this forum. but be careful and only invest what you can afford to lose.
ill check it out later.

I got negative trust for this post. I sometimes play these games all the time, they are fun and sometimes profitable. In my post I warned if you play, play what you can afford to lose, and I get negative trust for this?

What is the point in this forum if everyone gets red/negative trust? Why don't mods just remove it and ban hyip altogether?

[Lauda]

What is the point in this forum if everyone gets red/negative trust?

You are encouraging people to invest into this kind of websites in the second part of your post.

Why don't mods just remove it and ban hyip altogether?

Trust isn't moderated (excluding extreme cases of abuse). Why 'HYIP' isn't going to be removed is fairly complex question to which I can't provide an answer to. IIRC sometime in the past this section didn't exist.

[vigory]

What is the point in this forum if everyone gets red/negative trust?

You are encouraging people to invest into this kind of websites in the second part of your post.

Why don't mods just remove it and ban hyip altogether?

Trust isn't moderated (excluding extreme cases of abuse). Why 'HYIP' isn't going to be removed is fairly complex question to which I can't provide an answer to. IIRC sometime in the past this section didn't exist.

so we can't post anything positive about any site (I barely encouraged I just said it looked better than most sites coming up in the section) or we get negative trust?
i don't understand, just boycott all Hyip if it's a crime to participate or comment on them

[Lutpin]

What is the point in this forum if everyone gets red/negative trust? Why don't mods just remove it and ban hyip altogether?

There's a difference between the forums policy and the policy (some) users on DT have.
While it might be completely OK from the forums pov to have that section and let the HYIP scammers be amongst themselves there,
that doesn't mean what happens over there isn't worthy of negative feedbacks in order to warn others (at least in the eyes of some users).

[poptok1]

You are a Member, low in activity but still higher in rank and you are giving positive opinions about endeavours obviously fraudulent in nature. Is it really a surprise that somebody decided to flag your account? Higher rank members are expected to give example for others on how to avoid and boycott this broken branch of bitcoin world, witch certainly HYIP's are. You can still edit that post and change your approach, maybe than this red trust will be removed by the one who gave it to you.

[mindrust]

You are a Member, low in activity but still higher in rank and you are giving positive opinions about endeavours obviously fraudulent in nature. Is it really a surprise that somebody decided to flag your account? Higher rank members are expected to give example for others on how to avoid and boycott this broken branch of bitcoin world, witch certainly HYIP's are. You can still edit that post and change your approach, maybe than this red trust will be removed by the one who gave it to you.

Yep. That's the way. Please don't get mad and don't spam his account with fake reports. Just edit or delete your post and ask kindly from cryptodevil to remove his red trust.

Next time you see anything related to HYIP; run like Forrest. Don't even reply to their posts.

[buxlover]

hyip programs pays few members by scamming other members of the site,  so you think you were helping a member to get paid from hyip program at its initial stages.

But experienced members had a long sight that only a few get paid and many others get scammed, so obviously you are leading more members into to scam program.

I don't think its your fault too you didn't realize that you are going to be responsible for scamming. you just came into quick conclusion he might get paid.

If you really regret your action delete those replies and contact the members who put negative trust on you with an apology and explanation.

[tmfp]

It's amusing when scammers and their lowlife buddies get all butthurt about potential gullibles being warned off, like OneCoin and MMM go on about "haters" and "establishment stooges".

Turning it into a "Scammers have Rights too!" Freedom of Expression deal is going to get you a long way.
 

[actmyname]

Why 'HYIP' isn't going to be removed is fairly complex question to which I can't provide an answer to. IIRC sometime in the past this section didn't exist.

Wasn't the section added in the past to shift the HYIP and ponzi threads from the gambling section (or other sections for that matter) to a single section to prevent newbies from falling for it? (Well, they still do, of course, but the section prevents the gates from being breached by barrages of threads)

Unless I'm wrong. Can a bitcointalk historian clarify?

[Decoded]

Just stay the hell away from that board. I used to post there, but it's so full of shit and crap right now. There used to be this one site I used that paid out until I got scammed. Never touched a HYIP since.

[vigory]

It's amusing when scammers and their lowlife buddies get all butthurt about potential gullibles being warned off, like OneCoin and MMM go on about "haters" and "establishment stooges".

Turning it into a "Scammers have Rights too!" Freedom of Expression deal is going to get you a long way.
 

everyone is innocent until proven guilty, whether you like it or not. that is a moral that isn't followed here. which is appalling considering this is a forum based around a currency focused on decentralization, and one core moral is the freedom of speech. and yet, our freedom of speech is limited due to cryptodevils campaign against every single topic in that forum.
is it ok to red trust hyip/ponzi owner accounts? yes, as a warning to anyone considering investing
is it ok to red trust those that decide to invest and participate in these games? no. I don't see why we should be punished for playing these games.

Why 'HYIP' isn't going to be removed is fairly complex question to which I can't provide an answer to. IIRC sometime in the past this section didn't exist.

Wasn't the section added in the past to shift the HYIP and ponzi threads from the gambling section (or other sections for that matter) to a single section to prevent newbies from falling for it? (Well, they still do, of course, but the section prevents the gates from being breached by barrages of threads)

Unless I'm wrong. Can a bitcointalk historian clarify?

if that's the case why arent these hyip's just banned so that no one invests in them in the first place? instead of 'clueless newbies' being punished with red trust for making a post in that section.

[actmyname]

It's amusing when scammers and their lowlife buddies get all butthurt about potential gullibles being warned off, like OneCoin and MMM go on about "haters" and "establishment stooges".

Turning it into a "Scammers have Rights too!" Freedom of Expression deal is going to get you a long way.
 

everyone is innocent until proven guilty, whether you like it or not. that is a moral that isn't followed here. which is appalling considering this is a forum based around a currency focused on decentralization, and one core moral is the freedom of speech. and yet, our freedom of speech is limited due to cryptodevils campaign against every single topic in that forum.
is it ok to red trust hyip/ponzi owner accounts? yes, as a warning to anyone considering investing
is it ok to red trust those that decide to invest and participate in these games? no. I don't see why we should be punished for playing these games.

You state, "everyone is innocent until proven guilty". Do you know why you are punished for playing the games with the knowledge that it is a ponzi (or an incredibly likely one)?

You are helping the criminal advertise, and you are quite literally stealing other people's money. Direct or not, you're helping thieves by in turn being a thief yourself. So, why would you possibly want to play the games?

[vigory]

It's amusing when scammers and their lowlife buddies get all butthurt about potential gullibles being warned off, like OneCoin and MMM go on about "haters" and "establishment stooges".

Turning it into a "Scammers have Rights too!" Freedom of Expression deal is going to get you a long way.
 

everyone is innocent until proven guilty, whether you like it or not. that is a moral that isn't followed here. which is appalling considering this is a forum based around a currency focused on decentralization, and one core moral is the freedom of speech. and yet, our freedom of speech is limited due to cryptodevils campaign against every single topic in that forum.
is it ok to red trust hyip/ponzi owner accounts? yes, as a warning to anyone considering investing
is it ok to red trust those that decide to invest and participate in these games? no. I don't see why we should be punished for playing these games.

You state, "everyone is innocent until proven guilty". Do you know why you are punished for playing the games with the knowledge that it is a ponzi (or an incredibly likely one)?

You are helping the criminal advertise, and you are quite literally stealing other people's money. Direct or not, you're helping thieves by in turn being a thief yourself. So, why would you possibly want to play the games?

they are not thieves until they have stolen from someone .... I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in. There is nothing wrong with that, that is how it works. If you look at any HYIP, or the HYIP industry that has been running for 20+ years you will see some people make huge profit and others make huge losses. that is how the game goes. if this forum can not accept that is how HYIP works then do not allow it here altogether.

[KWH]

It's amusing when scammers and their lowlife buddies get all butthurt about potential gullibles being warned off, like OneCoin and MMM go on about "haters" and "establishment stooges".

Turning it into a "Scammers have Rights too!" Freedom of Expression deal is going to get you a long way.
 

everyone is innocent until proven guilty, whether you like it or not. that is a moral that isn't followed here. which is appalling considering this is a forum based around a currency focused on decentralization, and one core moral is the freedom of speech. and yet, our freedom of speech is limited due to cryptodevils campaign against every single topic in that forum.
is it ok to red trust hyip/ponzi owner accounts? yes, as a warning to anyone considering investing
is it ok to red trust those that decide to invest and participate in these games? no. I don't see why we should be punished for playing these games.

You state, "everyone is innocent until proven guilty". Do you know why you are punished for playing the games with the knowledge that it is a ponzi (or an incredibly likely one)?

You are helping the criminal advertise, and you are quite literally stealing other people's money. Direct or not, you're helping thieves by in turn being a thief yourself. So, why would you possibly want to play the games?

they are not thieves until they have stolen from someone .... I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in. There is nothing wrong with that, that is how it works. If you look at any HYIP, or the HYIP industry that has been running for 20+ years you will see some people make huge profit How did they make the profit? and others make huge losses. that is how the game goes. if this forum can not accept that is how HYIP works then do not allow it here altogether.

Looks to me like you already know full well how ponzi's work yet you justify them anyway. You pay with fire, you eventually get burned.

[vigory]

It's amusing when scammers and their lowlife buddies get all butthurt about potential gullibles being warned off, like OneCoin and MMM go on about "haters" and "establishment stooges".

Turning it into a "Scammers have Rights too!" Freedom of Expression deal is going to get you a long way.
 

everyone is innocent until proven guilty, whether you like it or not. that is a moral that isn't followed here. which is appalling considering this is a forum based around a currency focused on decentralization, and one core moral is the freedom of speech. and yet, our freedom of speech is limited due to cryptodevils campaign against every single topic in that forum.
is it ok to red trust hyip/ponzi owner accounts? yes, as a warning to anyone considering investing
is it ok to red trust those that decide to invest and participate in these games? no. I don't see why we should be punished for playing these games.

You state, "everyone is innocent until proven guilty". Do you know why you are punished for playing the games with the knowledge that it is a ponzi (or an incredibly likely one)?

You are helping the criminal advertise, and you are quite literally stealing other people's money. Direct or not, you're helping thieves by in turn being a thief yourself. So, why would you possibly want to play the games?

they are not thieves until they have stolen from someone .... I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in. There is nothing wrong with that, that is how it works. If you look at any HYIP, or the HYIP industry that has been running for 20+ years you will see some people make huge profit How did they make the profit? and others make huge losses. that is how the game goes. if this forum can not accept that is how HYIP works then do not allow it here altogether.

Looks to me like you already know full well how ponzi's work yet you justify them anyway. You pay with fire, you eventually get burned.

yes, i do know they work, anyone who googles the definition should know how it works.
this is a simple solution, change the board to this description:
"This board consists of Investor-Based Games (HYIPs, Ponzis etc) that are in most cases financial pyramids (fraud). Play or "invest" at your own risk"

We all know how ponzis work, if you dont it doesnt take a genius to work it out. This section could actually take off with LEGIT ponzis (ones that state they are real ponzi games and are transparent) if this censoring came to an end.

why can't we either ban HYIP altogether OR leave the section alone and let it evolve and eventually it will establish its own rules and regulations like every other section has?

and that is the theme of this board, you play with fire you will get burned. some will come out on top some will end on the bottom. that is the winner/loser in this whole section.

[actmyname]

they are not thieves until they have stolen from someone .... I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in. There is nothing wrong with that, that is how it works. If you look at any HYIP, or the HYIP industry that has been running for 20+ years you will see some people make huge profit and others make huge losses. that is how the game goes. if this forum can not accept that is how HYIP works then do not allow it here altogether.

Right, so when the ponzi collapses or the owner runs away, they aren't thieves. When you're paid with other people's funds, that's not theft! That's just how the game works!  "I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in." - thus, you realize that the last people in are losers, and their money is thieved, right? After all, the owners can't pay you without using other people's funds.

About your last point, it's also moot since we are talking about cryptodevil's trust - the forum is not cryptodevil. Also to add, the default trust system is just that - no one really NEEDS to keep it static, and thus you may change it to whatever you wish.

yes, i do know they work, anyone who googles the definition should know the word.
this is a simple solution, change the board to this description:
"This board consists of Investor-Based Games (HYIPs, Ponzis etc) that are in most cases financial pyramids (fraud). Play or "invest" at your own risk"

Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game.

That's the forum description. It used to have some description similar to that, but did not anymore. Okay, so you know how ponzis work. So why are you supporting them? Why are you supporting the people who steal money? You're indirectly abetting them.

This section could actually take off with LEGIT ponzis (ones that state they are real ponzi games and are transparent) if this censoring came to an end.

Doesn't work. Someone always gets screwed, and if it's one of those where another person needs to deposit within the timeframe, nobody is (usually) willing to go after the first depositor. The only reason ponzis survive now is because dumb people invest in them because of the high ROI (when they say they cloud mine/trade, etc. with that bs) and promotions.

why can't we either ban HYIP altogether OR leave the section alone and let it evolve and eventually it will establish its own rules and regulations like every other section has?

Let it evolve into what? A cesspool for lazy scammers and idiot "investors"? It's pretty much already got it's own rules and regulations: you promote a scam, you get red-marked.


addendum: Warning: You are in the Gambling section. You are likely to eventually lose any money that you gamble/"invest". Additionally, moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Do not gamble more than you can afford to lose.

That's at the top. Do you really want to support a thread within the likely scam category?

[vigory]

they are not thieves until they have stolen from someone .... I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in. There is nothing wrong with that, that is how it works. If you look at any HYIP, or the HYIP industry that has been running for 20+ years you will see some people make huge profit and others make huge losses. that is how the game goes. if this forum can not accept that is how HYIP works then do not allow it here altogether.

Right, so when the ponzi collapses or the owner runs away, they aren't thieves. When you're paid with other people's funds, that's not theft! That's just how the game works!  "I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in." - thus, you realize that the last people in are losers, and their money is thieved, right? After all, the owners can't pay you without using other people's funds.

About your last point, it's also moot since we are talking about cryptodevil's trust - the forum is not cryptodevil. Also to add, the default trust system is just that - no one really NEEDS to keep it static, and thus you may change it to whatever you wish.

yes, i do know they work, anyone who googles the definition should know the word.
this is a simple solution, change the board to this description:
"This board consists of Investor-Based Games (HYIPs, Ponzis etc) that are in most cases financial pyramids (fraud). Play or "invest" at your own risk"

Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game.

That's the forum description. It used to have some description similar to that, but did not anymore. Okay, so you know how ponzis work. So why are you supporting them? Why are you supporting the people who steal money? You're indirectly abetting them.

This section could actually take off with LEGIT ponzis (ones that state they are real ponzi games and are transparent) if this censoring came to an end.

Doesn't work. Someone always gets screwed, and if it's one of those where another person needs to deposit within the timeframe, nobody is (usually) willing to go after the first depositor. The only reason ponzis survive now is because dumb people invest in them because of the high ROI (when they say they cloud mine/trade, etc. with that bs) and promotions.

why can't we either ban HYIP altogether OR leave the section alone and let it evolve and eventually it will establish its own rules and regulations like every other section has?

Let it evolve into what? A cesspool for lazy scammers and idiot "investors"? It's pretty much already got it's own rules and regulations: you promote a scam, you get red-marked.


addendum: Warning: You are in the Gambling section. You are likely to eventually lose any money that you gamble/"invest". Additionally, moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Do not gamble more than you can afford to lose.

That's at the top. Do you really want to support a thread within the likely scam category?

You are completely missing the point. I know how ponzi's work, you know how ponzi's work...I choose to play them because I can profit from them but at the same time I can lose, just like gambling. It is exactly the same.
If you look at the terms of service of almost ANY SITE you will see that they say there is risk. Almost any site says this. Any real game anyway, not some HTML scam built by a 12 year old kid saying "send me your btc and i'll double it"

It will evolve in regard to real games that last a long time will come on and off, some may even last years, many people will profit and less people will lose at the end. Right now this is what is happening:
- New site is posted
- Ignorant members who don't listen to any of cryptodevils garbage join in
- There is no support for these programs so they scam very quickly
- All members lose, no one wins.

how it can evolve into:
- New site is posted
- Members choose whether to support it or not
- Site evolves and lasts many cycles, many people get paid and make money
- Last people lose, but much less than all the people who gained

so you tell me, do you want ignorant people to keep on losing money from smart trickery of these scams or do you want less people to lose out and more people to gain?

no matter how much cryptodevil posts, these games are going to keep on coming. it is up to us whether we play them like the russians over in mmgp.ru who have built a whole economy around these games, or we are going to sit here like idiots and let the newbies lose their money and us experienced players not able to teach anyone how to play these games to prevent their losses.

Doesn't work. Someone always gets screwed, and if it's one of those where another person needs to deposit within the timeframe, nobody is (usually) willing to go after the first depositor..

Does everyone who plays dice or any other gambling game win? That is the point, there is never 100% winners, that is how gambling works and that is how this section should work. But all program lives are being cut short meaning more losers than winners, and that is the fault of not letting people speak their opinion about sites. We, the gamblers, in this section should have control on if a site is successful or not based on our own personal preference....not one person on default trust.

do I support the owners of these scams? no I don't. But do you prefer more people losing than people winning, or more people winning than losing? that is what I am trying to convey here.

[cryptodevil]

You are completely missing the point. I know how ponzi's work, you know how ponzi's work...I choose to play them because I can profit from them but at the same time I can lose, just like gambling. It is exactly the same.

It is *nothing* like actual gambling, which has odds unrelated to the ability of the 'game' or its 'players' to rope in more suckers so you can get a share of their deposit in return for helping the ponzi scam function.

You know how these ponzi 'games' work, many people do not, many people on this forum do not have a particularly good grasp of the English language and struggle to recognise scams.

But, and here's the thing, the negative rating is to show people that you are untrustworthy. Your intention to profit from other people's loss in a scheme which is all about encouraging others to deposit after you, means you are not trustworthy. The rating is a valid way to communicate to other forum members who may read your posts about this-ponzi or that-ponzi looking 'good', that you are provably untrustworthy due to your motivation to profit through these schemes at the cost of somebody else having their deposit stolen when it collapses.

[vigory]

You are completely missing the point. I know how ponzi's work, you know how ponzi's work...I choose to play them because I can profit from them but at the same time I can lose, just like gambling. It is exactly the same.

It is *nothing* like actual gambling, which has odds unrelated to the ability of the 'game' or its 'players' to rope in more suckers so you can get a share of their deposit in return for helping the ponzi scam function.

You know how these ponzi 'games' work, many people do not, many people on this forum do not have a particularly good grasp of the English language and struggle to recognise scams.

But, and here's the thing, the negative rating is to show people that you are untrustworthy. Your intention to profit from other people's loss in a scheme which is all about encouraging others to deposit after you, means you are not trustworthy. The rating is a valid way to communicate to other forum members who may read your posts about this-ponzi or that-ponzi looking 'good', that you are provably untrustworthy due to your motivation to profit through these schemes at the cost of somebody else having their deposit stolen when it collapses.

So what, that is how a ponzi works, no?
So I am punished for playing the game how it's supposed to be played?
If the section is meant for Ponzi games then why am I getting painted red (and others) for playing the games in that section?
I am not condoning ponzis outside that forum, I am not encouraging fradulent behaviour....threads in that section are technically admitting to being a ponzi due to that is where they are posted, why would anyone not know it's a Ponzi if it's in the Ponzi section?

[minifrij]

So what, that is how a ponzi works, no?

It is, and it is fundamentally untrustworthy to take part in or promote because of that.

So I am punished for playing the game how it's supposed to be played?

You're punished for promoting and condoning a service that is untrustworthy. It is irrelevant whether this is by design.

I am not condoning ponzis outside that forum

Irrelevant. You are condoning a ponzi, regardless of where on the forum it is.
If I were to go to a carding forum and say how great it was, would that mean I should be trusted? No.

I am not encouraging fradulent behaviour

Ponzis are fraudulent as they will eventually steal from someone. That is a fact.

threads in that section are technically admitting to being a ponzi due to that is where they are posted, why would anyone not know it's a Ponzi if it's in the Ponzi section?

Because it isn't the 'Ponzi' board, it is the 'Investor-Based Games' board. Someone who is new to Bitcoin/doesn't understand English well may see a scheme there and believe it is legitimate. You saying 'this is great!' doesn't help this in any way, and further causes you to look untrustworthy.