is cloudhashing.com a scam??

[TheQuin]

Thank you very much. What do you expect from Cloudhashing in terms of returns going forward, and do you feel any of the other services (mining contract companies) are in a stronger position?

I expect Cloudhashing to declare bankruptcy quite soon. Most customers on this forum are getting refunds through Google Wallet and PayPal. They didn't provide the contract they sold, so under UK consumer protection laws they have no choice other than to refund, however hard they try not too.

cex.io is the only player in the market that can actually deliver at the moment. However it's a free market and too many people are chasing the concept of "free money" so the market price is above the return that could ever be made.

cex.io loss calculator

[cloudhasher]

Cloudhasher answered one of my questions but the vast majority of them he hasn't answered. He said customer service will answer questions but they continue not to respond. My payments are down to less than .04 bitcoins per month in the lifetime contract and I have no idea why, it is very confusing the hashrates promised and delivered related to payment and he won't explain it himself nor at all clearly on the company's website.

Suggestion if it makes sense to him: Hire a writer who understands bitcoins and bitcoin miners to simply explain on the cloudhasing website how the hashrates (and what they mean) relate to payments. I realize that is difficult but laypersons and customers like myself are very confused.

He says there will be customer service and there isn't. He says there will be daily payments and there aren't. Payments go down almost to zero but it is not clear exactly why. It's like you don't trust your customers because you refuse to share real information with them.

The payments are so small for a number of reasons. The 2 most important reasons are:

They lied about the expected returns on their website (now removed).

They delivered late and network difficulty increased. The vast majority of the return would have been at the beginning of the contract, when they weren't mining or were mining at very % hash rate.

Lied? Why would we lie? We would make a lot less money and would not have the number of return customers if thats our ploy.

Look admittedly the difficultly estimate we had were lower than the actual. A lot of people missed this estimate including hardware manufacturers.  We cannot overlook that BTC price is almost 4 times greater than when we estimated 100.

Also late delivery of equipment affected almost every bitcoin miner with some sill to receive hardware. Bottom line is that we are closer than ever to our 110 terahash target.

If you have a cloudhashing account and have an issue, pm me and I will take care of it.

Cheers

[elmismo]

Cloudhasher answered one of my questions but the vast majority of them he hasn't answered. He said customer service will answer questions but they continue not to respond. My payments are down to less than .04 bitcoins per month in the lifetime contract and I have no idea why, it is very confusing the hashrates promised and delivered related to payment and he won't explain it himself nor at all clearly on the company's website.

Suggestion if it makes sense to him: Hire a writer who understands bitcoins and bitcoin miners to simply explain on the cloudhasing website how the hashrates (and what they mean) relate to payments. I realize that is difficult but laypersons and customers like myself are very confused.

He says there will be customer service and there isn't. He says there will be daily payments and there aren't. Payments go down almost to zero but it is not clear exactly why. It's like you don't trust your customers because you refuse to share real information with them.

The payments are so small for a number of reasons. The 2 most important reasons are:

They lied about the expected returns on their website (now removed).

They delivered late and network difficulty increased. The vast majority of the return would have been at the beginning of the contract, when they weren't mining or were mining at very % hash rate.

Lied? Why would we lie? We would make a lot less money and would not have the number of return customers if thats our ploy.

Look admittedly the difficultly estimate we had were lower than the actual. A lot of people missed this estimate including hardware manufacturers.  We cannot overlook that BTC price is almost 4 times greater than when we estimated 100.

Also late delivery of equipment affected almost every bitcoin miner with some sill to receive hardware. Bottom line is that we are closer than ever to our 110 terahash target.

If you have a cloudhashing account and have an issue, pm me and I will take care of it.

Cheers

So that's the way you solve the problems emmanuel? We have to deal with you not customer support. Is this seriously for you? I think this is just a game for you.

Why don't you speak with James the guy who answered my email and never answer again.
I gave a chance, I wrote the email with my concerns, part of the answer was just an insult and misrepectful.
Your compensation didn't satisfy my expectations. Actually is a joke.
So I think I have the right of a refund, I asked nice and didn't get an answer.
So the nice way is over.

So yes I got an issue with CH. I'm still waiting for a lot of answers, but I don't what are them, I just want to get far away from you. But if BTW you want to drop some of your "TRANSPARENCY" in here and help new customers to trust you. Can you explain how your reinvestment plan works? something concrete, like we'll give you XX GH/s for aech BTC you put in your RRP... and we will give it to you weekly... for example... I'm still waiting a simple answer like that....
so please... start talking or shut the **** up

[Arock]

The company's newsletters and radio shows explain their intentions well. The three "reparations" of extended contracts, some waived administration fees, and the current discount of half-off contracts is fair.  I don't believe they will need to declare bankruptcy.  The power behind having over 1000 clients' payments to work with along with the mining "beast" they have created means they will stay competitive in the industry and people will get paid.  

Have some patience these investments are not "get rich quick" schemes.  When buying a contract that says "2-years" one should make a mental note that its a 2-year contract and not a "win big in a couple of months!" contract.  You might as well go hit the slot machines if that's your mentality.

[ZetaOS]

The company's newsletters and radio shows explain their intentions well. The three "reparations" of extended contracts, some waived administration fees, and the current discount of half-off contracts is fair.  I don't believe they will need to declare bankruptcy.  The power behind having over 1000 clients' payments to work with along with the mining "beast" they have created means they will stay competitive in the industry and people will get paid.  

Have some patience these investments are not "get rich quick" schemes.  When buying a contract that says "2-years" one should make a mental note that its a 2-year contract and not a "win big in a couple of months!" contract.  You might as well go hit the slot machines if that's your mentality.

[elmismo]

The company's newsletters and radio shows explain their intentions well. The three "reparations" of extended contracts, some waived administration fees, and the current discount of half-off contracts is fair.  I don't believe they will need to declare bankruptcy.  The power behind having over 1000 clients' payments to work with along with the mining "beast" they have created means they will stay competitive in the industry and people will get paid.  

Have some patience these investments are not "get rich quick" schemes.  When buying a contract that says "2-years" one should make a mental note that its a 2-year contract and not a "win big in a couple of months!" contract.  You might as well go hit the slot machines if that's your mentality.

I don't know how long you've been around bitcoin mining. But there is something clear, the biggest part of your ROI you'll make it at the beginning, because of the difficult is the lowest you'll expect. Don't expect get more the second year than the first one.
So if something is true, for the price that we've paid for that service we'll never get the same amount of bitcoins than buying it directly. So if you still think this is profitable.... make the maths again. seriuosly...

I don't think they'll bankruptcy, just hope they learn to do things better. A lower their prices as it is a theft t those prices. So again at those prices yes they are stealing to people and always will be someone that makes the wrong investment as I did.
And CH will make a huge mone i'm sure of it, but not their customers...

[sniffinpoprocks]

Cloudhasher answered one of my questions but the vast majority of them he hasn't answered. He said customer service will answer questions but they continue not to respond. My payments are down to less than .04 bitcoins per month in the lifetime contract and I have no idea why, it is very confusing the hashrates promised and delivered related to payment and he won't explain it himself nor at all clearly on the company's website.

Suggestion if it makes sense to him: Hire a writer who understands bitcoins and bitcoin miners to simply explain on the cloudhasing website how the hashrates (and what they mean) relate to payments. I realize that is difficult but laypersons and customers like myself are very confused.

He says there will be customer service and there isn't. He says there will be daily payments and there aren't. Payments go down almost to zero but it is not clear exactly why. It's like you don't trust your customers because you refuse to share real information with them.

The payments are so small for a number of reasons. The 2 most important reasons are:

They lied about the expected returns on their website (now removed).

They delivered late and network difficulty increased. The vast majority of the return would have been at the beginning of the contract, when they weren't mining or were mining at very % hash rate.

Lied? Why would we lie? We would make a lot less money and would not have the number of return customers if thats our ploy.

Look admittedly the difficultly estimate we had were lower than the actual. A lot of people missed this estimate including hardware manufacturers.  We cannot overlook that BTC price is almost 4 times greater than when we estimated 100.

Also late delivery of equipment affected almost every bitcoin miner with some sill to receive hardware. Bottom line is that we are closer than ever to our 110 terahash target.

If you have a cloudhashing account and have an issue, pm me and I will take care of it.

Cheers

PM sent...

[TheQuin]

The company's newsletters and radio shows explain their intentions well. The three "reparations" of extended contracts, some waived administration fees, and the current discount of half-off contracts is fair.  I don't believe they will need to declare bankruptcy.  The power behind having over 1000 clients' payments to work with along with the mining "beast" they have created means they will stay competitive in the industry and people will get paid.  

Have some patience these investments are not "get rich quick" schemes.  When buying a contract that says "2-years" one should make a mental note that its a 2-year contract and not a "win big in a couple of months!" contract.  You might as well go hit the slot machines if that's your mentality.

Interesting profile there Arock. Registered 28th March, 3 days before Clownhashing registered. First post 6th November, 8 posts in 3 days, all shilling for CH.

Let me explain the truth behind reparations:

Extended contracts:
A September contract that started 1 month late is extended by 1 month.
Therefor the customer paid for a September contract and got an October contract. Because difficulty increased more 100% in that time the Oct contract is worth around half of the Sept. contract. That is mugging, not reparation.

Waived management fee:
They didn’t take their 10% of what you didn't earn while they weren’t mining. 
Come on now they really are taking the piss.

50% off new contracts:
That are priced well above double the market rate at cex.io

That sure ain’t a “get rich quick scheme” like the one they advertised with “expected 100% profit”. No it’s a get mugged scheme.

[Arock]

Interesting profile there Arock. Registered 28th March, 3 days before Clownhashing registered. First post 6th November, 8 posts in 3 days, all shilling for CH.

Let me explain the truth behind reparations:

Extended contracts:
A September contract that started 1 month late is extended by 1 month.
Therefor the customer paid for a September contract and got an October contract. Because difficulty increased more 100% in that time the Oct contract is worth around half of the Sept. contract. That is mugging, not reparation.

Waived management fee:
They didn’t take their 10% of what you didn't earn while they weren’t mining. 
Come on now they really are taking the piss.

50% off new contracts:
That are priced well above double the market rate at cex.io

That sure ain’t a “get rich quick scheme” like the one they advertised with “expected 100% profit”. No it’s a get mugged scheme.

I'm just taking a stance for a company that I feel is doing its best after difficulty with getting equipment.  Maybe you're "shilling" for cex.io with the trolling you're doing against cloudhashing.  Anyway like they said in the radio show "let's talk bitcoin" many other competitors received their equipment late.  So its similar to some competing farmers not receiving their farming equipment so they are similarly disadvantaged for the harvest. 

What bothers me is the collective hysteria, distrust, and whining that made me defend the company.  Its actually amusing when people rate others by the amount of posts they have made.  By that logic a 12 year old who posts bullshit all day here is more worthy of your attention than a brilliant, seasoned businessman with years of triumph just now finding this obscure corner of the web.

[TheQuin]

What bothers me is the collective hysteria, distrust, and whining that made me defend the company.  Its actually amusing when people rate others by the amount of posts they have made.  By that logic a 12 year old who posts bullshit all day here is more worthy of your attention than a brilliant, seasoned businessman with years of triumph just now finding this obscure corner of the web.

I was rating you by the fact that every post you have made is a PR statement that could be direct from the company. If you check my posts you will see I have pointed out to others that cex.io contracts will lose money. Even though they are priced far below Clownhashing's Also they waited until they had a product to sell rather than taking risky pre-orders and then passing that risk on to their customers and bullshitting about reaparation that anyone with a spread sheet can see does't add up to the losses.

What bothers me is that Clownhashing treats it's customers like it thinks they are idiots it can get one over on.

[elmismo]

Arock did you heard of cognitive mining? if you don't you it's ran by a 12 or 16 years old boy and is doing much better than CH. He doesn't have the same money, nor hashrate or equipments. You know what he does good? customer support, planification and transparency...
The Ceo of CH is a retarded playing to manage business with a bunch of monkeys that just want money.
It is as plain and simple as this, if you cannot deliver proper service to your customers, you STOP taking more customers, until you know for sure you can do it... and for deliver a don't mean on time... I mean a good service...
CH is just improvising the next step...

[Arock]

That's great about the 12 year old doing so well.  Also I see the other side of my argument that having a trust network of people who have been here a while proving themselves is very intelligent.  I came on here just as my CH contracts were providing returns and my butterfly equipment has been also making money.  So as I look to diversify it seems only precious metals and direct cash-to-bitcoin purchasing are the soundest investments (as far as less-than-volatile investments are concerned.)  They have both served as a form of "wealth insurance" (as the currency in America has gone down the precious metals have remained stable..and the same with Bitcoin so far).  

Although I have to re-iterate that the "beast" of a mining rig CH has created - maintained in a data center with "bulk" or "wholesale" electricity pricing - may ultimately smash competitors like "cognitive mining" and the buy-and-wait butterfly cloudhashing contracts.  I see this as a marathon and not a sprint so I think, over time, my ASIC 30 GH will eventually make a profit.  However maybe the cloud mining scene has already made it obsolete.  I'm open to suggestions.  I still don't think the gentlemen at CH have intentionally screwed over their customers.

If cex.io has sold products that are imminently "antiquated" or "obsolete" what would you suggest in the cloud mining industry?

[TheQuin]

I still don't think the gentlemen at CH have intentionally screwed over their customers.

I have no idea of their original intention, but they way they are "compensating" them now certainly is screwing them over.
Relying on the rising price of bitcoin to cover their tracks. Not one Clownhashing customer will make back the BTC they could have bought at the time of placing their order. They even have the nerve to screw them again with a 10% fee.

They didn't deliver the contracts they sold and ignore UK law by refusing refunds, that is scamming. They are scamming now whatever they set out to do.

[vaporpens]

PM sent to CH 2 days ago.  Waiting for reply. 

I don't know what their intentions where.  I honestly feel as it was in good faith because it was a good idea and with a good idea, you can make a lot more money going legit then scamming a few people.  I read how CH went out of their way to get their hands on a mini-rig out of queue and I actually applaud the conviction.  But the service appears to be run either by 1 overworked guy or terribly mis-managed. 

Their customer service is horrible and is because they are probably getting bombarded with questions.  But they caused their own support clusterfuxk by terrible management.  They screwed early investors with delays and with difficulty at exponential growth, those 2 months delays were worth more then all the other months combined.  I have missing payments, and still so many questions about how things are run.  I've reached a point where I've chalked up my loss as a poor investment and now it's time to warn others.

I've seen the site evolve since june and it's going at a snail's pace.  I am a professional web developer and I could build a waaaaaay better site including pool.cloudhashing in 1 month.  I have seen little to no improvement in transparency since I purchased back in june.  I'm very disappointed at the rate of improvement and feel they are not doing enough to catch up. 

[Arock]

An extensive FAQ section on their site or even weekly newsletters would be much easier, and reach a large audience, than attempting to respond to each person's inquiry.  So the bitcoin community learns from these mistakes.  I'm interested in what's going to happen with the evolution of cloud mining and mining pools in general.  For instance what's going to happen as several large mining pools join up to create huge pools with corporate style business models and cheaper electricity.  

Corporations tend to divorce themselves from human contact and easily begin to see clients as units or commodities (profit being more important than anything else so they often screw people over) and then comes the situation when they grow so much they can subdue any legal issues against their corrupt activities.  I'm still new to studying the nature of bitcoin so hopefully Saotoshi built something in the system to prevent a monopoly.  In essence when huge corporations get into bitcoin it will be attempting to "centralize" the currency.

At this point I'm just approaching bitcoin like precious metals.  Converting my cash directly into bitcoin and becoming a "buy and hold forever" style investor.  I'm recently converted because the math of mining rigs and cloudmining just isn't adding up to good profits compared to just buying some fucking coins.  Plus it just makes life easier and less complicated.  Long live de-centralized currency!  


http://bitcoinmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/bitcoin_peer_to_peer_network3.jpg

[TheQuin]

An extensive FAQ section on their site or even weekly newsletters would be much easier, and reach a large audience, than attempting to respond to each person's inquiry. 

BS deleted

ROTFLMAO

YOU SOLD CONTRACTS YOU DIDN'T HONOUR AND YOU IGNORE PEOPLE THAT WROTE TO YOU ASKING FOR A REFUND.

[Arock]

My valid questions are not BS you troll on a nerd rage with your perma-caps.  Get a grip and take it like a man if you lost money.

[TheQuin]

My valid questions are not BS you troll on a nerd rage with your perma-caps.  Get a grip and take it like a man if you lost money.

Read the title of the thread. The rest of your BS was off topic, hence I didn't need to quote it.

[Arock]

The thread is literally a yes or no question I forgot about the thread nazis.  I'll be sure to stick exactly to the thread title when you're around wielding caps lock.

[TheQuin]

The thread is literally a yes or no question I forgot about the thread nazis.  I'll be sure to stick exactly to the thread title when you're around wielding caps lock.

I needed to shout because you ignored what I said. Cloudhashing is scamming by not issuing refunds that people have asked for them and are legally entitled to.

Do you have anything to say about that or not?