SegWit and LN are really interesting altcoins... but that is not Bitcoin.

[TKeenan]

Why does Core call everything an 'alt' but their wildly variant version of Bitcoin gets entitled to be 'the Bitcoin'? 

Don't be fooled: SegWit is the alt.  Lightning is the alt.  These radical changes are being forced into the network because Blockstream has been able to convince a few Chinese miners (not decentralized) to follow their stupidly dangerous plan.

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[Carlton Banks]

Segwit and Lightning both transact Bitcoins, on the Bitcoin network.

You're relying on your audience being too stupid or too lazy to check this for themselves. That's not a very good strategy, anyone can check for themselves, and confirm you're talking nonsense.

[franky1]

agreed LN in its blockstream concept is an alt.

the 'payments' performed within blockstreams LN are not bitcoin compatible.
the units of measure are different. so a signed LN 'payment' cannot be simply broadcast into bitcoin.

it requires rounding the altcoin to then be measured as a satoshi equivalent and then resigned. which only happens on closing the channel.
some say that its bitcoin due to using the same privkeys.
but then we come to the contraversial forks which use the same privkeys. so again an altcoin.

unless an LN concept uses the same units of measure any the LN 'signed payment' can at anytime be broadcast to bitcoin without needing to create a new tx just to close the payment session.. its an altcoin



segwit however is within bitcoin..


as for carlton.. ignore him he knows nothing about LN

Lol, I'm not going to check the details, just so i can speak to you, it's a waste of time after all

as proven

[TKeenan]

Segwit and Lightning both transact Bitcoins, on the Bitcoin network.

You're relying on your audience being too stupid or too lazy to check this for themselves. That's not a very good strategy, anyone can check for themselves, and confirm you're talking nonsense.

Omni transacts Bitcoin on the Bitcoin network.  Counterparty does too.  Your definition is completely fucking stupid.  Nearly all of your responses are similarly so.  

Lots and lots of possible alts 'transact Bitcoins, on the Bitcoin network. '

LN is WILDLY different that the original protocol.  SegWit is VERY different than the original notion of signature.  These are enormous changes being marketed as 'Bitcoin tweeks'.  They are actual not Bitcoin, and they are not tweeks.  

Blockstream proposes a very different cryptocurrency - and the control commit access to make it appear to be 'Bitcoin'.


Blockstream is not Bitcoin.


as for carlton.. ignore him he knows nothing about LN

Lol, I'm not going to check the details, just so i can speak to you, it's a waste of time after all

Carlton is a moron best ignored in all his fanatic Blockstream defenses.  Does Blockstream pay him?

[Carlton Banks]

I fail to see how a bunch of waffle about channel closing and unit rounding means that the Lightning transactions are not sending Bitcoin.


It starts as Bitcoin.
Then it gets to the recipient as Bitcoin.


Your desperate word-salad is not going to work

[BiTZeD]

For me, anything aside from the original godly Satoshi work is bad and need to be stopped since it will lead to further corruption.

[franky1]

I fail to see how a bunch of waffle about channel closing and unit rounding and means that the Lightning transactions are not sending Bitcoin.


It starts as Bitcoin.
Then it gets to the recipient as Bitcoin.


Your desperate word-salad is not going to work

blockstreams LN concept the same concept as locking bitcoins into an address and then playing with millisat coins for payments using a totally different node.
millisat coin transactions cannot be broadcast to bitcoin,
there needs to be a conversion of the millisatcoins back to bitcoins and then signed before broadcasting to bitcoin.

the only thing carlton forgets or doesnt know is
millisatcoin is a 1:1000 peg to bitcoin ... a peg, not an actual bitcoin
a different node not actually bitcoin node.
a memool not an actual blockchain

[Carlton Banks]

For me, anything aside from the original godly Satoshi work is bad and need to be stopped since it will lead to further corruption.

Do it. Go back to version 0.1 (satoshis "original godly work"). Have fun.

[AgentofCoin]

Why does Core call everything an 'alt' but their wildly variant version of Bitcoin gets entitled to be 'the Bitcoin'?  

Don't be fooled: SegWit is the alt.  Lightning is the alt.  These radical changes are being forced into the network because Blockstream has been able to convince a few Chinese miners (not decentralized) to follow their stupidly dangerous plan.

Every crypto-currency that was created after Bitcoin, is automatically an altcoin.
Altcoin means that it is an "alternative coin" to "Bitcoin", since Bitcoin was the first.

SegWit is not an altcoin since it is still the Bitcoin blockchain.
All that SegWit does is split the single Bitcoin merkle root, into two Bitcoin merkle roots.

Lightning Network is not an altcoin since there is no PoW, blockchain, or etc.
LN is just a relay network that relies on, is pegged to, and exists on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.
It is a rapid bitcoin clearance facilitator layer. It is basically a bitcoin backed escrow layer.

[Carlton Banks]

its the same concept as locking bitcoins into an address and playing with litecoins for payments. litecoin transactions cannot be bradcast to bitcoin there needs to be a conversion of the units back as bitcoins and then signed before broadcasting to bitcoin.

No it's not. Show me the part of the Lightning design documents where it says Lightning "units" need to be converted to and from Bitcoin. You're making it all up.

[franky1]

its the same concept as locking bitcoins into an address and playing with litecoins for payments. litecoin transactions cannot be bradcast to bitcoin there needs to be a conversion of the units back as bitcoins and then signed before broadcasting to bitcoin.

No it's not. Show me the part of the Lightning design documents where it says Lightning "units" need to be converted to and from Bitcoin. You're making it all up.

MILLISATS

[TKeenan]

SegWit is not an altcoin since it is still the Bitcoin blockchain.

Great, then Omni/Mastercoin is also Bitcoin and CounterParty is also Bitcoin.  


SegWit is not the Bitcoin Blockchain.  The bitcoin blockchain is enforce by the protocol.  SeqWit is an alternative protocol.  

[Carlton Banks]

Millibits. Hmmmm. I wonder why they're called that......

[AgentofCoin]

SegWit is not an altcoin since it is still the Bitcoin blockchain.

Great, then Omni/Mastercoin is also Bitcoin and CounterParty is also Bitcoin.  

SegWit is not the Bitcoin Blockchain.  The bitcoin blockchain is enforce by the protocol.  SeqWit is an alternative protocol.  

No, you are redefining known terms and systems.

Omni/Mastercoin are separate coins with separate blockchains that are mined and secured by non-bitcoin miners.
These are altcoins.

SegWit is a Bitcoin protocol proposal.
Bitcoin protocol is not static and changes with each new version.
Protocol does not equal an altcoin.
An altcoin is a competitor.

[franky1]

Millibits. Hmmmm. I wonder why they're called that......

you know its millisats. you know they are not compatible with bitcoin.. you did not gain amnesia in the last 48 hours.
so all i can assume is your just baiting another debate because you have nothing to do with your life.

have a nice day

learn LN or dont talk about LN

[Carlton Banks]

Millibits. Hmmmm. I wonder why they're called that......

you know its millisats.

I do.

you know they are not compatible with bitcoin

No, that sentence doesn't even make proper sense. Millisats can't exist on the blockchain until the Bitcoin code allows that amount of granularity, so there are no millisats to be incompatible with. And no, deflating the monetary base is not the same thing as inflating it, for the trillionth time

[European Central Bank]

a bitcoin in mined in 2009 can be spent on the post segwit blockchain should it be activated in my mind that means it's not an alt. if enough people agreed on bitcoin unlimited or whatever they're spewing out right now then that would be the chain and it wouldn't be an alt either.

a non alt is the longest bitcoin blockchain used by the most people.

[Carlton Banks]

a bitcoin in mined in 2009 can be spent on the post segwit blockchain should it be activated in my mind that means it's not an alt.

Exactly. Satoshi himself could spend the Bitcoins he mined in 2009-10 to launch the Bitcoin network, using either a Lightning channel or a Segwit address. And if he wanted to send that BTC back to a traditional address, he could do that too.



OP is a shit talking idiot, QED

[franky1]

Millibits. Hmmmm. I wonder why they're called that......

you know its millisats.

I do.

you know they are not compatible with bitcoin

No, that sentence doesn't even make proper sense. Millisats can't exist on the blockchain until the Bitcoin code allows that amount of granularity, so there are no millisats to be incompatible with. And no, deflating the monetary base is not the same thing as inflating it, for the trillionth time

much like saying monero can't exist on the blockchain until the Bitcoin code allows it. so there are no monero to be incompatible with. And no, deflating the monetary base by adding monero is not the same thing as inflating it, for the trillionth time

satoshis code is that there are ever going to be 2,100,000,000,000,000 units of measure called satoshi's(in code) and then ONLY FOR GUI PURPOSES will an allotment of 100,000,000 be defined as a bitcoin. again only at GUI level.

adding more units does multiple things. it extends when mining for a blockreward will cease. (from 2141 to 2181)
please learn things before defending blockstream using their PR. because their PR lacks realistic facts.

all you seem to do all day is defend blockstream while saying bitcoin needs to get screwed around with to fit blockstreams vision

[Carlton Banks]

and no, deflating the monetary base by adding monero is not the same thing as inflating it, for the trillionth time

You've got the insider knowledge on this one Franky, do tell us:

How many millisats will Blockstream be adding to the Bitcoin monetary base? How many, what number?