Precious metals are not useful in a collapse scenario!

[markj113]

In Japan for 600+ years, rice was the only currency.

Really,

So how did you buy rice?

Customer : "Hey mate i would like to buy that bag of rice please."

Shop keeper : "No problem sir, that will be 2 bags of rice thanks.

 

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[BADecker]

In a collapse where fiat and Bitcoin are completely done, silver "junk coins" will be worth more than today's dimes and quarters at the store.

[chris_nor]

In collapse scenario, the biggest asset is a skill. A usefule skill can get you a long way.

[tvbcof]

In collapse scenario, the biggest asset is a skill. A usefule skill can get you a long way.

A good skill to have would be the ability to at least absorb data, and to be able to transfer as much as possible.  A working understanding of crypto-currencies in their various permutations may be a big bonus.   ...or it could get you killed.

[iamnotback]

So much for not getting emotionally invested in the market.  Your entire view of metals at this point is just hatred of the possibility that someone else might make a profit where you didn't and has nothing to do with any of the actual market dynamics.  Having 0 metals when the market implodes is probably the biggest financial mistake someone can make.

Nonsense. I am warning others. If you don't heed the warning, then you deserve your fate. I made this warning back when I did have 18,000 oz of silver:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article20327.html

You are the irrational one, who is invested in your tinfoil delusion of fighting back with useless metal. You aren't investing for sound reasons, but rather because you think you are fighting back against the system. Yet the global elite are the ones who are feeding you the propaganda that makes you think precious metals are great. Lol.

Talk about a dog chasing his own tail. Lol.

Even out of sheer principle alone you would have to be a fool to participate in the debt based currency scam when it can be avoided.

There you go with that useless ideological crap that the global elite have planted in your brain through the various propaganda sites they fund, such as Alex Jones.

What kind of person willingly subjects themselves to being scammed on purpose?

Yeah. And you are being scammed, by the very group you think are fighting. They have you so fooled.

Metals and bitcoin are the only alternative, and there are no viable solutions for decentralized currency, so the answer is pretty clear where the majority of your money has to be out of principle, wealth preservation, and chance of windfall gains when the debt based system implodes and wealth transference occurs.

They are not an alternative. There is no alternative.

Crypto-currency is your best chance. Also dollars and the US stock market.

You keep repeating over and over that the world is "short US dollars".  The world is not short US dollars.  Those are called unserviceable debts.  When people have no intention of fulfilling those contracts, those are toxic assets and not shorts with any type of counter party.

They have every intention of fulfilling them. We will get a massive push back into the dollar before we get any default on dollar loans. Later yes defaults, but I am talking about what happens in 2017, not 2018 or beyond.

I wouldn't have lost the fortune I earned developing computer software if I hadn't become a silverbug following Jason Hommel back in 2006. And shipped my physical metal to the Philippines!

You would have doubled your money buying silver in 2006 (or 5x if you sold at the last top).

I tried to sell at $21 to take profits before the crash to $9 and again at $48 before the crash in 2011. I was rebuked both times. 18,000 oz of physical metal is difficult to sell at the top if you don't have it sitting in a Comex warehouse or otherwise have a very deep pocket dealer close by. Forget it in the Philippines.

Literally nothing you're saying about metals makes any sense.

Because you are deluded, irrational, insane tinfoil hat. So of course sanity and rationality won't make sense to you.

If you're worried about liquidity, the only type of silver you should be touching is silver eagles

And only if you are physically in the USA.

Actually you are incorrect. The most liquid are Comex bars.

Precious metal bugs are irrational extremists, who are locked and loaded in their basements.

Since when is Anonymint shilling for the jews? lol.  Telling people to buy stocks at the peak of the bubble (sans hyperinflation) and demonizing guns and metals.  Now I've seen everything.

Watch and observe your mistake over the next year. Then let's talk again.

[iamnotback]

In Japan for 600+ years, rice was the only currency.

Really,

So how did you buy rice?

Customer : "Hey mate i would like to buy that bag of rice please."

Shop keeper : "No problem sir, that will be 2 bags of rice thanks.

 

Hey dolt with 105 IQ, you trade a product or service in exchange for rice. That is what currency means.

I think you ought to just realize you do not have the intellect for this.

[iamnotback]

In a collapse where fiat and Bitcoin are completely done, silver "junk coins" will be worth more than today's dimes and quarters at the store.

Nope.

[iamnotback]

Those who stay in precious metals are going to see losses in 2017 (due to a surging dollar) and then only at most a 4 X gain from current prices over next several years.

400% gain over several years ?

Life's a bitch ~LOL~

That is the maximum possible. And good luck actually cashing out with that gain. And good luck with your governments not declaring you a terrorist and money launderer for having gold and silver.

You are walking into a hornet's nest by buying that pathetic shit. It is a trap laid for you by the psyops of the global elite. They are promoting you to buy this shit.

[markj113]

In Japan for 600+ years, rice was the only currency.

Really,

So how did you buy rice?

Customer : "Hey mate i would like to buy that bag of rice please."

Shop keeper : "No problem sir, that will be 2 bags of rice thanks.

 

Hey dolt with 105 IQ, you trade a product or service in exchange for rice. That is what currency means.

I think you ought to just realize you do not have the intellect for this.

And I thought you would have the intelligence to recognise a joke.  

[iamnotback]

In Japan for 600+ years, rice was the only currency.

Really,

So how did you buy rice?

Customer : "Hey mate i would like to buy that bag of rice please."

Shop keeper : "No problem sir, that will be 2 bags of rice thanks.

 

Hey dolt with 105 IQ, you trade a product or service in exchange for rice. That is what currency means.

I think you ought to just realize you do not have the intellect for this.

And I thought you would have the intelligence to recognise a joke.  

Liar. You thought nothing other than you thought you had rebuked me.

[markj113]

iamnotback you are so full of shit.

No one has a crystal ball and all you keep spouting is your opinion and nothing else.

If your such an investment genius why arent you making a killing on the stock market or making a packet working for a central bank.

Truth is you are scrapping around for bitcoin dust from your mamma's basement.  I bet you dont hold even 5 bitcoin.

[chris_nor]

In collapse scenario, the biggest asset is a skill. A usefule skill can get you a long way.

A good skill to have would be the ability to at least absorb data, and to be able to transfer as much as possible.  A working understanding of crypto-currencies in their various permutations may be a big bonus.   ...or it could get you killed.

Well, I was thinking more of a scenario where there's basically no electricity and people are living of the land.

[tvbcof]

In collapse scenario, the biggest asset is a skill. A usefule skill can get you a long way.

A good skill to have would be the ability to at least absorb data, and to be able to transfer as much as possible.  A working understanding of crypto-currencies in their various permutations may be a big bonus.   ...or it could get you killed.

Well, I was thinking more of a scenario where there's basically no electricity and people are living of the land.

Me too.

[European Central Bank]

the stat that always resonates with me is that society is four unattainable meals away from anarchy. these metalheads are living in dreamland if they think anyone is going to care about their lumps of shininess in a genuine collapse.

it can happen over a long weekend and if it's clear there's no coming back any time soon then food, bullets and medicine will be the only things with any value. everything else instantly becomes abstract and 100% useless.

it's a different matter if we're talking market wobbles and nothing else, but I get the feeling the former is in the minds of many precious metal hoarders. good luck with that. see you in the cemetery.

if you were stuck in Aleppo right now with no way of getting out would you swap 20 litres of clean water, some toilet paper and a pile of preserved food for a gold coin? hey, it's shiny shiny.

[chris_nor]

In collapse scenario, the biggest asset is a skill. A usefule skill can get you a long way.

A good skill to have would be the ability to at least absorb data, and to be able to transfer as much as possible.  A working understanding of crypto-currencies in their various permutations may be a big bonus.   ...or it could get you killed.

Well, I was thinking more of a scenario where there's basically no electricity and people are living of the land.

Me too.

But crypto requires electricity and the internet. The main focus would not even be money, but to try to find food before dying of hunger. No stores, cops, etc.

[tvbcof]

In collapse scenario, the biggest asset is a skill. A usefule skill can get you a long way.

A good skill to have would be the ability to at least absorb data, and to be able to transfer as much as possible.  A working understanding of crypto-currencies in their various permutations may be a big bonus.   ...or it could get you killed.

Well, I was thinking more of a scenario where there's basically no electricity and people are living of the land.

Me too.

But crypto requires electricity and the internet. The main focus would not even be money, but to try to find food before dying of hunger. No stores, cops, etc.

 - Electricity will be in use in almost any conceivable scenario.

 - 'the internet' is, at it's core, simply a set of communications protocols.

 - Some people have a store of food which alleviates the immediate necessity of scavenging for it.  Markets tend to develop quite rapidly so the problem will not persist indefinately...though it will certainly take longer if the 'government' shows up to 'help.'

 - In many communities, cops are already the second-source for personal protection due to a variety of logistical and political considerations.  World-wide it's probably more common than not.

[Fragbait]

Gold is a bubble which may at any moment burst. I'm not buying gold right now and do not advise others. The price will fall.

I disagree, I think there is still a lot of upside with many predicting $5k gold by 2020.

If trump wins expect a $100 price increase overnight.

Is that why you just sold $75k worth of gold, because there's a lot of upside and it could even go up $100 overnight?

[iamnotback]

I mean

With gold and Bitcoin there is a safety rule one must follow: if you don't hold it - you don't own it. A Comex bar is fine so long as it's in your hand, not in the Comex warehouse. A bitcoin is fine so long as you hold the private key, not a book entry to your name at Coinbase or other Bitcoin "vault". It appears you keep talking about paper promises, it makes your prediction of $850 gold completely useless. The kind of fool's gold you describe will be $850 one day, on its way to zero.

And you completely ignored that I wrote if gold is on a slump in price then it means the dollar is strong and thus you are not likely near to a default scenario in gold (although it is plausible that the dollar carry trade impacts the liquidity of those who back the futures markets with metal), thus you can buy the SLV or some paper instrument of the spot price, then as the price comes back up to the price of the physical metal, you can convert your gain to physical metal.

Moreover your entire thesis is brain dead tinfoil hat nonsense, because the entire point of my exposition is that physical metal will be entirely useless in a collapse scenario where society implodes into utter chaos due to abject failure of the financial systems that our just-in-time-inventory systems depend on. The reason being as I explained before that in that collapse chaos, people return to their primitive needs and eating metal is not one of them. At that point no one is willing to risk that they will be stuck holding some metal that nobody else wants, because resources are scarce and everybody is very worried about making sure they have food, guns, and medicines.

What you fail to understand mathematically (because you don't have a high enough IQ to reason about this issue in a mathematical abstraction) about efficient markets in general is they always require a market maker who has deep liquidity. Barter doesn't require a market maker, but barter is extremely inefficient because the currency is not fungible.

That is the reason that for example USA dollars were liquid in Argentina's collapse and German marks in Bosnia, because those both had market makers externally which sustained the liquid value of the currency. Whereas, the market makers in gold are the damn investment banks such as Goldman and JP Morgan who you think you are fighting by buying the metal. When chaos ensues, your local dealer can no longer use a futures contract with the Comex to hedge his purchases and sales. Why do you think mega dealer Tulving went bankrupt!

For fiat, the market makers are the banks and thus ultimately the central banks which set the reserve ratio requirements, etc..

Crypto-currency is unique because for the market makers are all of us meeting a free market on exchanges. It is an amazing breakthrough in decentralized control over liquidity while delivering a fungible unit. This is the case for as long as we are all trading non-fractional reserve units of crypto-currency.

Now that I have given you some Finance 101 education, I suggest you STFU with your nonsense, because you are showing everyone what a vindictive fool you are.

So you made a prediction of silver price in the past but didn't act on your own prediction because reasons. I heard this story before, a couple of posts earlier. Reasons seem to get in your way all the time. Do you think you should learn to overcome reasons before you are in a position to teach others?

Listen you fucking anonymous pussy, my experience in the Philippines of carrying 800oz of physical silver in a backpack from Manila to Mindanao, meant I had to bribe the police at the airport (even I had a permit to carry it issued from the an authorized rep of central bank) and it meant I was very much in danger of getting kidnapped or robbed. There was no way I was going to bring 18,000oz to fucking Mindanao. Besides it was useless to bring it to Mindanao, because I can't sell it there. There was no courier service for shipping metal insured to fucking Mindanao. My extended family is from Mindanao and I needed to be there to have the grandmother watch the kids because the mother was AWOL.

This is indicative of the situation you will be in once a collapse ensues and you can't waltz over to your comfy local coin dealer to trade metal.

You ignorant, vindictive, pompous fool.

I had to be in the Philippines for reasons I have alluded to (and detailed in the past but I don't want to go talking about my ex in public as it is not appropriate). I told you already that a family member endangered the mutual custody of my kids and forced me back to the Philippines to prevent the loss of custody of my kids to the State. Which created a big fucking dilemma for me, of how to manage my investment priorities because I was fooled into thinking that I had to be invested in precious metals. What a crock of shit. Had it not been for that incorrect tinfoil hat delusion that I ventured into circa 2006, I would be a multi-millionaire right now simply following conservative mainstream investment practices such as bonds. By now, I would have found Armstrong and had diversified out of bonds and into dollars and US stocks (and possibly Bitcoin given I am a programmer).

STFU about my personal life. Stay on point of the issue at hand.

[iamnotback]

the stat that always resonates with me is that society is four unattainable meals away from anarchy. these metalheads are living in dreamland if they think anyone is going to care about their lumps of shininess in a genuine collapse.

it can happen over a long weekend and if it's clear there's no coming back any time soon then food, bullets and medicine will be the only things with any value. everything else instantly becomes abstract and 100% useless.

it's a different matter if we're talking market wobbles and nothing else, but I get the feeling the former is in the minds of many precious metal hoarders. good luck with that. see you in the cemetery.

if you were stuck in Aleppo right now with no way of getting out would you swap 20 litres of clean water, some toilet paper and a pile of preserved food for a gold coin? hey, it's shiny shiny.

For some reason, the tinfoil hats are unable to comprehend this common sense.

[iamnotback]

In the most extreme scenarios, bullets may be the best single "currency" (USA), my lead stash is 9mm bullets (lots of them) for my Beretta.  Along with water production systems.  These cases would likely not have gold (especially) and silver valued highly, at least during the very worst parts...  Still, at some point (probably..., when?), some kind of currency almost always is chosen.  My *guess* is that the most probable candidate would be silver coins, remember we are talking about a long and drawn out time (TEOTWAWKI in this paragraph) when central governments might not be there.  Silver will always retain some value, it is useful too (kills germs in water).  Gold will be there to preserve value through a long period, like giving to your kids.

Rather than speculating, just go study history. Armstrong has, and he says that if it gets bad enough to where you need to abandon the established money system, then you go to food as money.

Sorry you and all your fellow tinfoil hatters speculating in forum discussions are simply wrong. You don't study history.

Where metal was used as money was because it was already the money system before the collapse ensued. Even then when the collapse was severe enough, only food was money.

So you pray that we don't lose the existing money system or that Bitcoin can transition to a popular currency before the collapse, otherwise only food (and maybe bullets since you can use that to steal or guard food) will be money.

But how likely are the extremely bad  scenarios?  Ahh, not as likely, IMO, as the milder, but still bad Great Depression v.2 and its more uncomfortable "SHTF".  So, in my own planning, I have but a couple of water filters and only a nominal amount of food stored (believing that the very ugly TEOTWAWKI will NOT be what happens).  Again assuming here no HORRID scenario (no Golden Horde armies devouring everything in the landscape...), I think that gold & silver are perfectly fine as part of a diversified portfolio of holdings.

The gold and silver diversification is fine for a non-collapse scenario, in which case you might as well just buy bullion. But it will highly underperform crypto-currency as a speculative asset. My exposition was specifically about collapse scenario and I even put it in bold, red text.

If things DO go really bad, if the Dark Ages (let's say little/no electricity for the moment), then Bitcoin ain't going to do the job!!  Yeah I know that BTC can still function at some level without an Internet, but, it will fail in actual use...

Nothing will work as money. Which is why it collapses into a Dark Age. Pray we don't go there.

Note that CURRENCY (US$, FRNs in your actual possession, not in the bank) counts as a good asset to hold in almost ANY weird scenario...  In the early days, a $100 FRN might get you gasoline or a meal for your family if the credit card machines are down...

Until they cancel the currency and declare it illegal. And if we are in a collapsed government scenario, then the FRNs have no value because there is no market maker for them anymore. Dark Ages are a scorched earth where only food is money and everybody is coming to steal yours.

Bitcoin is much more difficult to steal physically.

Gold and silver will be thrown into the streets as the Bible says. Their time has ended.