Hi! BitCoin Fully Decentralized Hard Asset Backed Bank!

[laffenlarry]

You're getting farther away.

Let's see - Think of Bitcoin as a "Payment Clearing System" rather than a currency; as it's not a currency; a currency would be something of real value (a tangible, fungible, real thing).

I would not sell you a pound of potatoes for .01 bitcoins; but i will for $1.00; or something of similar value; or somethign attached to that thing of value; and i may accept 'payment, transactions, or process them out, in the form of a bitcoin' but the bitcoin is pretty worthless beyond that.

And sure, we may keep a few "odd bitcoins as a float to provide a liquidable reserve from which to make exchanges from' but it's more like writing a cheque (with a bitcoin cheque) than it as currency.

[dflatline]

I never stated that he'd hold or not hold BTC. I just showed how he takes BTC, and accounts for it on his ledger, then how he pays (scams) you back in BTC. His risk is very low, his customer risks are very high.

As another example, about 2 months ago BTC was worth about $25. If you deposited 1 BTC with him back then, your ledger would show $25. Withdrawing today would get you 0.176 BTC before he takes his "fee".

No thanks, I'll hold my BTC today so that tomorrow it's still a BTC.

If he's not holding the deposits in Bitcoin he would need to buy the equivalent value in Bitcoin back to fulfill the value on the ledger. The 1 BTC you deposit with him will be converted into some sort of asset. His ability to pay interest, or even back his deposits depends solely on what assets his 'bank' owns. He's essentially taking bitcoin, converting it to non-bitcoin currency and investing it in commodities, then selling those commodities, using what he made selling those commodities to buy bitcoin which he then gives back to you.

Except, he's stated that he's not going to be investing anyone's money in commodities, he's going to invest the fees. So his operating capital is a small percentage of the value on his ledger; he will have to make far more than 4% on those transaction fees to cover the ledger value.

[laffenlarry]

I never stated that he'd hold or not hold BTC. I just showed how he takes BTC, and accounts for it on his ledger, then how he pays (scams) you back in BTC. His risk is very low, his customer risks are very high.

As another example, about 2 months ago BTC was worth about $25. If you deposited 1 BTC with him back then, your ledger would show $25. Withdrawing today would get you 0.176 BTC before he takes his "fee".

No thanks, I'll hold my BTC today so that tomorrow it's still a BTC.

If he's not holding the deposits in Bitcoin he would need to buy the equivalent value in Bitcoin back to fulfill the value on the ledger. The 1 BTC you deposit with him will be converted into some sort of asset. His ability to pay interest, or even back his deposits depends solely on what assets his 'bank' owns. He's essentially taking bitcoin, converting it to non-bitcoin currency and investing it in commodities, then selling those commodities, using what he made selling those commodities to buy bitcoin which he then gives back to you.

Except, he's stated that he's not going to be investing anyone's money in commodities, he's going to invest the fees. So his operating capital is a small percentage of the value on his ledger; he will have to make far more than 4% on those transaction fees to cover the ledger value.

There we go. We are starting to think about the margins.  Now, reduce costs, decentralize, and even though there may be thin margins, it's about the breadth of the waters being sailed. The balancing is delicate. But once it's gotten to a point of Neutrality it will swim for the next 150 years or more.

Bitcoin is a "Present Value" currency, with an inability to carry and hold it's value. Like a dwindling gold mine, or the good old gold rushes. But the mine will run dry. The cost will vastly increase, and it no longer service as daily use purpose.

However, as payment clearing system and transaction system Bitcoin is nearly flawless.

[Slackware1995]

I never stated that he'd hold or not hold BTC. I just showed how he takes BTC, and accounts for it on his ledger, then how he pays (scams) you back in BTC. His risk is very low, his customer risks are very high.

As another example, about 2 months ago BTC was worth about $25. If you deposited 1 BTC with him back then, your ledger would show $25. Withdrawing today would get you 0.176 BTC before he takes his "fee".

No thanks, I'll hold my BTC today so that tomorrow it's still a BTC.

If he's not holding the deposits in Bitcoin he would need to buy the equivalent value in Bitcoin back to fulfill the value on the ledger. The 1 BTC you deposit with him will be converted into some sort of asset. His ability to pay interest, or even back his deposits depends solely on what assets his 'bank' owns. He's essentially taking bitcoin, converting it to non-bitcoin currency and investing it in commodities, then selling those commodities, using what he made selling those commodities to buy bitcoin which he then gives back to you.

Except, he's stated that he's not going to be investing anyone's money in commodities, he's going to invest the fees. So his operating capital is a small percentage of the value on his ledger; he will have to make far more than 4% on those transaction fees to cover the ledger value.

There we go. We are starting to think about the margins.  Now, reduce costs, decentralize, and even though there may be thin margins, it's about the breadth of the waters being sailed. The balancing is delicate. But once it's gotten to a point of Neutrality it will swim for the next 150 years or more.

Bitcoin is a "Present Value" currency, with an inability to carry and hold it's value. Like a dwindling gold mine, or the good old gold rushes. But the mine will run dry. The cost will vastly increase, and it no longer service as daily use purpose.

However, as payment clearing system and transaction system Bitcoin is nearly flawless.

You sir, have a strong mis-conception of what money is and is not. As long as I can exchange bitcoin for something I value, it therefore has value. There are only 3 differences between bitcoin and USD.
1. USD are required to pay taxes
2. USD are backed by the faith of a country/world
3. It is much easier to carry transactions currently in USD because of 1 and 2 above.

The money value of USD and bitcoin are both based on faith in the system.

If anything, I'd say that bitcoin has more "ability to carry and hold it's value" than perhaps any other fiat money in the world. If bitcoin was a '"Present Value" currency' as you state, the value of bitcoin would be going down, not up. Which, based on your business model, I'm sure you understand.

Where your business concept fails is that at bitcoin's present appreciation, you will be hard pressed to find any commodity that raises in value as at an equal or greater appreciation. If, as you claim, you never use deposited bitcoin for investment, there is literally no way to sustain your business model as you present it. Therefore, my belief is that you are being dishonest with us. I'd even wager that if you did, in fact, use deposited bitcoin for investment, you would still be very hard pressed to find a commodity that is appreciating as fast.

Therefore, I conclude that your whole business model is to hold use the appreciation of bitcoin against your customers that are trying to "save".

As I've stated before, anyone that deposited 1 BTC a couple of months ago would only have about $25 on account with you. But if they request a withdrawal now, you give them $25 of $142 or 0.176 BTC. Then to add an extra dagger, you additionally charge 2.25% transaction fee.

If today I deposit 1 BTC, I would get about $142 on account with you. You are counting on next month that BTC will be worth $200 (or more). In which case, I get back 0.71 BTC before fees. You obviously want people to keep that money on deposit for longer periods (by saying that if you leave it in for 6 months you get 1% interest on the ledger amount or 4% after 1 year or more).

If you truly cared about us saving and earning you would keep everything in BTC. I deposit 1 BTC, I  have 1 BTC. If I leave that there you would pay interest on what I have deposited. No, your whole business model is based on BTC raising in value, therefore you give back much less than you originally received.

Furthermore, we only have your word that we would ever receive anything back. Anyone that sends you any BTC should just consider it a donation, because that is more than likely all it will ever be.

[laffenlarry]

You are entitled to your opinions no matter how wrong they may be.

You have displayed yourself to have no grasp, concept, clue, or understanding about Socioeconomics, Marco Economics, Currency, Monetary Systems, or anything else even slight related to what 'real' money is.

You keep your Bitcoins. I shall keep my assets. But that's nothing more than choice.

When the power goes off, I shall sleep well.

[Slackware1995]

You are entitled to your opinions no matter how wrong they may be.

You have displayed yourself to have no grasp, concept, clue, or understanding about Socioeconomics, Marco Economics, Currency, Monetary Systems, or anything else even slight related to what 'real' money is.

You keep your Bitcoins. I shall keep my assets. But that's nothing more than choice.

When the power goes off, I shall sleep well.

If you buy gold with bitcoin, that means you are saying that bitcoin is a money. Now, real money is considered gold, silver and to a lessor extent copper.

Personally, if I want real money, I wouldn't give you my bitcoin so you can buy it and hold it, I'll buy it myself and hold it myself.

Thanks for playing.

[laffenlarry]

It would blatantly obvious that precious metals would be in the mix; as with many other things of 'real' value - that's why I continually say Hard Assets!

My goodness. But that does not mean it forms a majority position. Certainly anyone who is not holding some form of Physical Hard Asset in the form of some Gold or Silver, or indeed coming up copper, is completely devoid of any kind of financial sense.

Now that we have dispensed with the obvious, I should hope it shant be revisited, due to its rather glaring being as an existnential part of it everything.

It's like trying to teach a dead chimp to walk in here!  I had thought that with the recommendations I had received to bring up the topic here in the first place a few days, but really - this is now becoming too much. You are all starting to sound like either a bunch of 1980 hard assed mortgage tied brokers who are falling short on your payments and can't afford to have changes happen, or you are all smoking something you shouldn't be.

You do know that by 2020-2025 the US dollar will hit 50 Cents right - now wrap your head around that. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with the momenetum behind the Renmindi and the Rubble right now.

So you do as you please. You are entitled to live in your little universe. Enjoy it.

[Slackware1995]

It would blatantly obvious that precious metals would be in the mix; as with many other things of 'real' value - that's why I continually say Hard Assets!

My goodness. But that does not mean it forms a majority position. Certainly anyone who is not holding some form of Physical Hard Asset in the form of some Gold or Silver, or indeed coming up copper, is completely devoid of any kind of financial sense.

Now that we have dispensed with the obvious, I should hope it shant be revisited, due to its rather glaring being as an existnential part of it everything.

You are dense. You are the one that stated that *I* didn't know what money is.. I showed you that I do know what money is, and in my opinion, I have a better grasp than you do. I used gold, silver, and copper as examples of what "real money" is. and you spout this non-sense.

It's like trying to teach a dead chimp to walk in here!  I had thought that with the recommendations I had received to bring up the topic here in the first place a few days, but really - this is now becoming too much. You are all starting to sound like either a bunch of 1980 hard assed mortgage tied brokers who are falling short on your payments and can't afford to have changes happen, or you are all smoking something you shouldn't be.

Maybe if you figured out that you have a horribly bad way of communicating to your potential customers, that you are being purposely difficult in explaining what you are wanting to do, that you can't even explain why anyone would want to have you hold their assets that you plan on stealing, that we might be able to walk like a dead chimp such as you.

The only change that you want is to change our current bitcoin for less bitcoin in the future.

You do know that by 2020-2025 the US dollar will hit 50 Cents right - now wrap your head around that. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with the momenetum behind the Renmindi and the Rubble right now.

Another example of your lack of communications skills. Please provide any link to how the US dollar will hit 50 cents by 2025? You can't. I'm not even sure you understand what you are trying to say but are failing at.

For your claimed amount of "education" you lack basic writing skills, including spelling. You lack the ability to clearly write a business plan. You lack the ability to write an informative ad for your "product".

For your claimed understanding of economics, you can't even clearly define what inflation is and what is happening to the US Dollar.

Please start over by explaining in clear, understandable language:
1. Your business plan
2. Why anyone should deposit assets in your non-bank "bank"
3. Why you are carrying assets paid in BTC as any other fiat currency (ie. you are being a double exchange)
4. Why there is a 6 month waiting period to earn a 1% interest. Why there is a 12 month period to earn 4% interest
5. Why someone should have you hold assets and be charged a transaction fee
6. How you pay out if you are short on assets (ie the value of BTC drops)
7. How you pay out if you die
8. How you pay out, and exactly in what form if there is no electricity

Please leave out your failed attempts at market-speak.
So you do as you please. You are entitled to live in your little universe. Enjoy it.
[/quote]

[laffenlarry]

Very entertaining.

You think we are selling. We are not. This is more of a Focus Group for us. And we have learned a lot.

But, yes, we shall be focusing more with our European Counters, though you'll notice in the Voting Poll that the race is dead even.

You see we don't need many to follow in what we believe. That's entirely up to the individual. Your beliefs are yours to have, but that does not mean we will back down from ours.

[Slackware1995]

Very entertaining.

You think we are selling. We are not. This is more of a Focus Group for us. And we have learned a lot.

But, yes, we shall be focusing more with our European Counters, though you'll notice in the Voting Poll that the race is dead even.

You see we don't need many to follow in what we believe. That's entirely up to the individual. Your beliefs are yours to have, but that does not mean we will back down from ours.

Continue to move the goal posts and not answer real questions.

[kcz123]

I can see where your ideas come from and I don't think you are a scammer , but I don't think it's realistic:

1) BTC is Decentralized, while USD, GBP, JPY etc are not. If you open a "bank" operating both asset class, there is no doubt you will be regulated by whichever regulators in the countries your business is based, especially if you are going to offer "interest" on deposit. That compromises the "Decentralized" nature of BTC. For example, if you are based in Cyprus and they decided to take 10% of "all savings in banks", I am prettly sure the savings (BTC and real currencies) in your "bank" will be affected.

2) I don't see how it is possible that any of the physical currency deposit (USD, GBP, JPY, etc) will be eligible for deposit guarantee (US FDIC $250k, £85k in UK). That makes saving at your "bank" very risky.

3) If you are setting up your business as solely using BTC as "Payment Clearing System" for other currencies, that's basically a BTC exchange, not a bank. And there are plenty of exchanges around for this already (though all of them have needs to improve massively). The fact that the established BTC exchanges around the world constantly have problems with physical currency payment is also a proof of difficulties mixing BTC with physical currencies.

3) Your business will most likely be the target of Money Laundry activities and be heavily regulated by Anti-Money Laundry Regulations.  This not only makes "saving" in your business insecure (as your business could be shut down by regulator any time). There is already plenty of negative news of BTC associated with drugs and money laundry. The last thing this community needs is more association with money that are illegal.

[laffenlarry]

You also obviously have no concept about what Decentralization is, nor how it works, can work, and can be a freedom.

You stick to your centralized thoughts and your BitCoin.

When it finally strikes you, and it may never strike you unfortunately, but either way it will be too late.

But it's time to get some rest. One of us or all of us will keep the thread up again tomorrow!

And again, thanks to everyone for their continued participation.

[laffenlarry]

I can see where your ideas come from and I don't think you are a scammer , but I don't think it's realistic:

1) BTC is Decentralized, while USD, GBP, JPY etc are not. If you open a "bank" operating both asset class, there is no doubt you will be regulated by whichever regulators in the countries your business is based, especially if you are going to offer "interest" on deposit. That compromises the "Decentralized" nature of BTC. For example, if you are based in Cyprus and they decided to take 10% of "all savings in banks", I am prettly sure the savings (BTC and real currencies) in your "bank" will be affected.

2) I don't see how it is possible that any of the physical currency deposit (USD, GBP, JPY, etc) will be eligible for deposit guarantee (US FDIC $250k, £85k in UK). That makes saving at your "bank" very risky.

3) If you are setting up your business as solely using BTC as "Payment Clearing System" for other currencies, that's basically a BTC exchange, not a bank. And there are plenty of exchanges around for this already (though all of them have needs to improve massively). The fact that the established BTC exchanges around the world constantly have problems with physical currency payment is also a proof of difficulties mixing BTC with physical currencies.

3) Your business will most likely be the target of Money Laundry activities and be heavily regulated by Anti-Money Laundry Regulations.  This not only makes "saving" in your business insecure (as your business could be shut down by regulator any time). There is already plenty of negative news of BTC associated with drugs and money laundry. The last thing this community needs is more association with money that are illegal.

Thanks you, you are very close, but it's not One Thing. Rather it's a component piece.

But we'll get to that later, I'm sure.

[Slackware1995]

You also obviously have no concept about what Decentralization is, nor how it works, can work, and can be a freedom.

You stick to your centralized thoughts and your BitCoin.

When it finally strikes you, and it may never strike you unfortunately, but either way it will be too late.

But it's time to get some rest. One of us or all of us will keep the thread up again tomorrow!

And again, thanks to everyone for their continued participation.

Wow, you continue on with your gibberish.

You have "The Vision", it's so clear to you that any "dead chimp" should see it, but we can't, or if we do it'll be too late. But your clear vision is just so hard to describe to us dead chimps. We don't understand economics, we don't understand centralization/decentralization and we don't even see how bitcoin is centralized.

The poor dead chimps on this forum.. if we could just come back to life and see the vision in your head that is so clear, the world would change. Of course this vision that can change the world as we know it is so important, that you can't speak it.

Your business plan with just a handful of participants, if it could just get some donations of BTC now, could change the world. If only the dead chimps could see that BTC isn't money, they'd surely send you donations of something of no value!

[dflatline]

Whenever he says you don't understand anything about economics what he actually means is you do, that's why whenever anyone asks any question that shows they know what they're talking about and he doesn't then he calls them stupid and refuses to answer. He's lost interest in responding to you because he knows you're not a mark or a 'sucker'.

He'll never say 'why' you're wrong, because he can't. He is actually well aware he is wrong.

You'll notice in this thread he tries to push anyone critical into communicating with him via email. This is so he can can pretend to have an answer in public, but not make a fool of himself by actually giving one. What he doesn't realise is it's already way past that and he's not even doing damage control anymore, he's just digging himself a bigger hole.

[lebing]

Pirates gonna Pirate.

[BurtW]

blah blah blah, or you are all smoking something you shouldn't be.

Actually we can purchase this directly with Bitcoins!

[clownius]

Pirates gonna Pirate.

I may be a newbie but my thinking exactly.  The number of similar Idea/investments call it what you will that i have seen on these forums is amazing.  They all seem to end badly before too long.  Well badly for the investors.  The people running them sail happily off into the sunset with fiat currency im sure.

BitCoin has a future if it can find a way to control this sort of thing.  But currently its very poor advertising for Bitcoin seeing these sort of posts all through the forums.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Pirates gonna Pirate.

I may be a newbie but my thinking exactly.  The number of similar Idea/investments call it what you will that i have seen on these forums is amazing.  They all seem to end badly before too long.  Well badly for the investors.  The people running them sail happily off into the sunset with fiat currency im sure.

BitCoin has a future if it can find a way to control this sort of thing.  But currently its very poor advertising for Bitcoin seeing these sort of posts all through the forums.

Bitcoin is a protocol and a currency. Bitcoin can't control anything.  Remember there is no state.  The dollar is used for all types of crimes.  Nobody excepts dollar bills to fight malicous use.  Now the STATE might do that but there are two seperate entities.

Of course the STATE isn't the only entity which can prevent crime.  Potential victims can also.  If people hadn't given Pirate any Bitcoins ... Pirate wouldn't have been able to steal any Bitcoins.  It is called personal responsibility.   People have a choice they either demand the state protects them from ever potential risk or they starting protecting themselves.  Anyone who gives this "bank" anything will lose everything and hopefully they learn from it.

[TiagoTiago]

Pirates gonna Pirate.

I may be a newbie but my thinking exactly.  The number of similar Idea/investments call it what you will that i have seen on these forums is amazing.  They all seem to end badly before too long.  Well badly for the investors.  The people running them sail happily off into the sunset with fiat currency im sure.

BitCoin has a future if it can find a way to control this sort of thing.  But currently its very poor advertising for Bitcoin seeing these sort of posts all through the forums.

If thieves wanna steal it, it must be worth somthing...