Hi! BitCoin Fully Decentralized Hard Asset Backed Bank!

[HappyBitCoinUser]

Pros and Cons to a BitCoin Bank.

Only real pros I can see worth mentioning are:

Faster transactions instead of waiting for 6 confirmations that takes an hour
Encourages more businesses to accept BitCoins for payments
Exchange BitCoin for Dollars
Keep your bitcoins safe (questionable).

Cons I see are:

Potential for corruption
New laws created for government to get their hands into it

Typically when a merchant accepts BitCoin for payment, they wait 6 confirmations, and can take an hour. For online purchases, this is probably no big deal. But if we use this for face to face purchases like in retail stores, are we going to stand at the cashier for an hour to confirm payment? No, that'd be crazy.

This is where a bank, or MtGox, would come in handy, with a system to trade BitCoins with each other instantly.

So you go through the hassle to make an account with MtGox in advance, and wire them some money.

Well, in real life, you also take the effort to go visit a bank, sit down to fill out forums, deposit money, and then wait a few days/weeks to receive your ATM debit card, which can be used to fast, easy, and instance purchases at stores.

Creating a bank for BitCoin would have same benefits, but also allow for corruption, and the government would want a piece of that pie through new laws, etc. Then we're at square one, a free system no longer free.

MtGox already has vouchers that other websites can use (soon can't accept US Dollar vouchers by April 10th due to legal issues in Seattle?). What about similar voucher system that can be used at local retail stores for instant funding/purchases?

[Aahzman]

L
your real estate has tumbled and crashed!

Uh, I dunno about the real estate market in Edmonton, but I closed on the purchase of my condo at the beginning of November, and the market value is already up 40%.  In a 10km stretch of Yonge Street going north from Steeles Avenue, there are..8 condo projects going up, mostly multi-tower complexes, over 20,000 units. Somebody must be buying these condos for the developer to start breaking ground.   The wife and I are considering buying a second unit in our building to use as a rental property.  My brother and his wife are planning to do the same thing. Buy two units here, live in one, rent the other.

The real estate market in the north end of Toronto is alive and doing quite well, thank you.

[laffenlarry]

L
your real estate has tumbled and crashed!

Uh, I dunno about the real estate market in Edmonton, but I closed on the purchase of my condo at the beginning of November, and the market value is already up 40%.  In a 10km stretch of Yonge Street going north from Steeles Avenue, there are..8 condo projects going up, mostly multi-tower complexes, over 20,000 units. Somebody must be buying these condos for the developer to start breaking ground.   The wife and I are considering buying a second unit in our building to use as a rental property.  My brother and his wife are planning to do the same thing. Buy two units here, live in one, rent the other.

The real estate market in the north end of Toronto is alive and doing quite well, thank you.

Edmonton is in a slump, as most of North America, en masse, but there are pockets of great value preservation everywhere if you know what you're looking for; as anyone investing in property would be aware. My acquisitions have doubled in the past 36, which is actually a bit above what I personally had predicted. That's just a good purchase, based on good understandings of the facts and the information as it relates to the risk assessment, profit/loss requirements, and other such elementary decisions; but I'm not locked in to a mortgage, as all my acquisitions are by Private Note, allowing better terms to be negotiated, not being left to the mercy of some merciless broker. it simply suggests that you are in a good pocket, and that there is opportunity in your geographic marketplace, that doesn't mean all of Toronto is doing well, which overall it's not really, but it's resilient, and I must say more resilient than Vancouver, but that is to be expected.

That lessens nothing, that's just smart decisions and utilization of expertise.

But if you found a mortgage available from China, that was willing to finance you, at better terms, and you wanted to transact with them conveniently, BitCoin and and International Trade Unit would facilitate that much better than any current fiat currency can.

But I'm glad you are doing well with your acquisitions, and hope your ROIs will yield what expect them to.

[tiesto]

A'ite, bear with me here, cause I'm struggling to follow your business plan. So no fractional reserve lending. Fair enough. Reading through you're other responses I've ascertained you (correct me if I am wrong) intend to pay interest by

• charging fees and returning a portion of that income as interest
• investing a portion of that income in real assets and commodities which you hope will appreciate in value and return some of the capital gains as interest

So to point one, the sum of all fees must exceed the sum of all interest, ergo your clients are net losers if we view point one in isolation. If we include point two, you are making the claim that real assets and commodities will gain value relative to bitcoin. That is another way of saying bitcoin will lose value relative to those assists/commodities.

The above being true, what your are counting on is (through your doing or the pressures of the market place) bitcoin will depreciate relative to goods and services. You will then arbitrage the difference and pay a proportion of that arbitrage to your clients. Meanwhile, your clients will have lost a (necessarily larger) portion in depreciated coin. So at best, you're cushioning the depreciation with interest. At worst, you've some scheme in mind to cause the depreciation. Either-way, it's not clear to me how your clients end up with more value over time, even if they end up with more coin.

I understood him as if he's not touching people's deposits and he's holding people's assets in Bitcoin and paying them out in Bitcoin there is no need to be valuing them in their exchange rate to to other currencies, i.e you deposit 1 BTC you withdraw 1.04 BTC after a years interest regardless of it's exchange rate in another currency.

Either way is really stupid for different reasons, as you've shown but it'd be nice if he'd clarify.

Due to the fluctuation nature of non-real value currency like crypto currency the sentiment posed is inaccurate.

A currency that is not linked to a Tangible Real Value Unit (liek Oil, or Gold, Or Wheat) has no value.

It would also subject our clients to Unknown Losses, which defeats the saving principle. As if the BitCoin devalued to BELOW the Fiat Exchange you chose we'd be happy to pay you less - but we woulndt' feel comfortable doing so.

We provide a way to associate to REAL Value, not Speculative Valuations.

Thanks for your comment!

Have you ever seen a graph of oil prices?

[Twerka]

Why do we need a "bitcoin" bank? If you want to buy something, and you don't have money, you can go to the real bank.
Even now, in "real banks" if everybody goes and try to get their dollars back, the system collapse; imagine how easily is to corrupt a system made of bits.

And there is no reason to "keep safe" my virtual money on a "virtual bank"; no place is safer than my own backup.

[laffenlarry]

... and you can Earn INTEREST!

I am curious; how do you pay interest without engaging in fractional reserve lending or otherwise debasing the currency through the money multiplier effect? Doesn't this undermine Bitcoin's raison d'etre?

Well see this is where theory and concept work are a lot of fun.

Let's say that you make a transaction, and there was a minimal fee - now this is a just VERY Wild and outrageous example; but none the less makes it rather clear we think.

From your transaction we gain a fee. Now let's assume we use that fee, in part, to buy a packet of seeds. And let's say those seeds are planted, and they yield tomoatoes. In turn the tomatoes get sold. This yields a revenue. After the seed sale and farming and expense, etc., are paid, let's assume there is a profit.

The bank, having engaged in the producution fo the seed, through perhaps a 'branch of it's operations' like starting small businesses; would be paid a portion of those profits.

The bank then, rather than being solely concerned with gaining money, seeks to gain profits, and redistriute them across the accounts, in a more a humanistic harmonic manner.  Not with One Sole Goal of profits, but to make profits, and share them across the accounts as benefits or bonusus.

As I said wild. But clear.

[laffenlarry]

From another conversation held elsewhere:

Question: So are we using Euro's, USD's, Yen, Pesos?

Answer: No. Let's name our product a Kwatloo, for example. It's a Unit Of Exchange. Just like money, say Euro's, USD's, Yen, Pesos, and the like. The difference is unlike other currencies being linked to eachother, as currencies, we would back our "Kwatloo" with assets.

This is much akin to the Old Gold and Silver standards; which are actually not that old. But the lifecycle of any Paper Money which is Not Asset based is typically between 30 and 50 years. As we see now currencies are starting to devalue, or revalue, the price indexes suggest that we are doing fine, but really you are buying less today then you were just 1-2 years ago. Not because of price increases, but because of product quantity decrease by the manufacturer so they can absorb some cost, to recoup as profit; no one wants to pay $5.00 for a KG of Peanut Butter, but you'll bay $3.99 for 650 or 750 mls, as long as the jar looks the same; it's a trick. This means the price actually increased.

Now, let's say that these "Kwatloo's" were not linked to a dollar, or a euro, or a fiat currency; let's assume they were based on 'things of value'.

Let's say that 1 Kwatloo was worth, as the not too recent times, worth X amount of Silver, or Gold.  And that instead of Gold, or Silver, there was an Internation Exchange Unit which acted the same; like a silver certificate, or a gold certificate. It's really no different than any other currency; excecp that the currency has 'real value'; it is 'worth more than the ink on the paper'.

Let's say then that you went out to pay your rent, which is say $1500.00 USD. Let's say this EU1250.00, or let's say it was 2 "Kwatloos"; it's simply a new type of "real currency". Now let's say you travelled to China, or Russia, or Mexico, or Brazil, and they had an open foreign exchanged that recognized, or had added our Internatinol Exchange Unit; you could theoretically use it anywhere.

If the dollar drops, the Kwatloo would not, if Gold drops, the Kwatloo remains balance or neutral against the counterweights used to valuate it, thus maintaining an evin keel, even in choppy financial waters.

It could be 'transfered' by using Bitcoins equivalent to the Unit; For convenience at this point we simply use the Present Currency Labels as a familiar reference point.

Now - Let's assume the dollar hits 50 cents, and let's assume the yen vanishes, and let's assume that the Renminbi, an eventual gold backed currency comes in, and tears up what's left of the precious few cents on the dollar, the euro, and the gbp. The "Kwatloo", is in a postioin that in succh a case it would weather the storm well, and would be worth the 'let's assume for example's sake' the same value as 1 gram of gold.

But instead of hoking and chaining to One Thing, we would use a variety of things; forming a floating "basket".

A good way to think of it would be to see it as a 'private' currency, for the moment.

If you have any other questiosn, or need further clarification please let us know! Thanks for your interst!

[dflatline]

The bank then, rather than being solely concerned with gaining money, seeks to gain profits, and redistriute them across the accounts, in a more a humanistic harmonic manner.  Not with One Sole Goal of profits, but to make profits, and share them across the accounts as benefits or bonusus.

As I said wild. But clear.

That's called a 'credit union' which already exists.

[laffenlarry]

The bank then, rather than being solely concerned with gaining money, seeks to gain profits, and redistriute them across the accounts, in a more a humanistic harmonic manner.  Not with One Sole Goal of profits, but to make profits, and share them across the accounts as benefits or bonusus.

As I said wild. But clear.

That's called a 'credit union' which already exists.

I suppose you haven't kept up with the reading; we have already said it is 'in line with a credit union'.

[dflatline]

One sentence:

International decentralised credit union that issues accounts in asset-backed scrip.

Is that what you're trying to say?

[laffenlarry]

One sentence:

International decentralised credit union that issues accounts in asset-backed scrip.

Is that what you're trying to say?

As 1 functional part of everything yes; but that is just one of the processes that would be required; there would a legislative, compliance, regulatory, etc sets of extensions that obviously would have to exist; and which we would love to work on.

A scrip, as an issuance of last resort, in case of let's say power going out, or the bill becoming so exceedingly high that you could not turn on the computer, would be required; though it would not have to be 'paper' necessarily; a chip; a magnistrip card, hard asset sales for recovery; but it's a 'component' of a larger 'unified' set of 'organizations'; decentralized things still need 'transport and transaction' mechanisms; these of course would have to researched as well.

The 'scrip' in this case would be a 'privately issued' currency note; one which is aimed at let's say the bank in canada, or usa, or africa, who has a client to directly interact with eachother, independent of the current systems. Direct Bank To Bank exchanges, transfers, transactions; in any currency obviously for use, and with the 'scrip of our creation' as the unit we peg to.

[laffenlarry]

A Great Example from a resent email question.


Question: Are you guys talking about like Star Trek's Latinum?

Answer: Yes, you could say that.  Where in Star Trek you hear and see episodes where no money is exchange, but there are Federation Credits.

You will see throughout the shows though that there is still a standard that applies 'outside of this federation'; and that unit they use is Latinum.

We see it much the same way: Bitcoin is a System and a Unit of Exchange, payment or transfer (Much like the Federation Credits System); but the Real Money is still in the latinum; You may remember always hearing the Ferengi say: "NO, We Demand Latinum".

We hope this has answered your question!