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Author Topic: [ANN][The Original Multipool - Scrypt/SHA256/Scrypt-N/X11] multipool.us  (Read 424085 times)
paulm
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September 05, 2013, 10:51:47 AM
Last edit: September 05, 2013, 12:50:14 PM by paulm
 #2841

And you do get paid, all you have to do is keep mining on the pool and be here when a block is found.
Ok, but we don't decide to stop mining it, the mulipool switched us to another coin...

Why should multiport miners get paid if the LTC pool finds a block on its own, 3 hours after MP moves off?  Do you think that's fair?
Yes, miners should be compensated for the work they put in.

What if the people mining LTC have been doing it for 3 days with no blocks found?  Should their reward be halved just because the multipool switched to LTC for 1/2 hour?  That could easily happen with a proportional system.
It's not fair for the dedicated LTC miners either. All the shares they submitted over the 3 days they mined won't get paid out. If a block is found 1/2 hour after the mulipool switches to LTC then they will get a very small portion of the winnings as most of it will have gone to the mulipool users. And if the mulipool hadn't switched to LTC, they may have gone another 3 days before finding a block.

Payout algorithms should distribute block rewards fairly and there is more than one way to do that.  Proportional has been showed to be a deeply flawed system, which is why almost no pools use it (and the ones that do are gamed by pool hoppers).

"deeply flawed system" - I find it funny when people say this, just because someone wrote a long study on how someone could potentially play the system. I'm sorry but I just don't think that this is true in reality. Do you think there are thousands of people sitting in front of a computer 24 hours a day, jumping from pool to pool to try to maximize their winnings. Maybe there are, I just don't think it's as big a problem as people make it out to be.

Besides, your mulipool does exactly this, it hops from one coin to another so it is not a "normal" pool. PPLNS works well on a pool where everyone is mining the same coin and coins are found in a more reasonable amount of time. If a round time is one hour and you have a reasonable chance of finding a block within one hour it makes sense. When a round time is one hour but the chances are very good that a coin won't be found for days (ie over 24 rounds) I personally wouldn't mine on such a pool. I think this is why there are so few dedicated miners on LTC. If there was a large number of dedicated miners this wouldn't be a problem.

1. I believe that other than PPS, it is the most fair to all parties (dedicated coin miners and multipool miners)
2. It would require a fair amount of coding to change, and I have other priorities
3. Any payout method that requires me to potentially keep millions of shares in the db for 10+ coins (i.e. proportional) is going to result in the need for a larger DB system and increase fees for all users.

1. I'm ok with PPS although I think this would be way too risky for your pool
2. I'm not a programmer so I can't help you there, although I would think that taking the winnings and dividing it up among all the submitted shares should be fairly simple.
3. Only the slow coins would generate a lot of shares

If the steady miners pay for gas for 80% of a truck haul, and port 7777 for 20%, even if 7777 isn't driving when they reach their destination they should still get paid for their 20%. Mining is gambling, if people pool their money to buy a lottery ticket they all get paid even though only the winning ticket gets the money.
well said
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September 05, 2013, 02:09:54 PM
 #2842

I think MAINLY the problem I have is when we go to LTC for only like 10 minutes, and then move on without finding a block.  It really is wasted shares because the chance of finding a block in the 10 minutes is so small.  I guess my priority would be making it so we can exclude LTC from our multipool.



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murraypaul
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September 05, 2013, 02:32:24 PM
 #2843

I think MAINLY the problem I have is when we go to LTC for only like 10 minutes, and then move on without finding a block.  It really is wasted shares because the chance of finding a block in the 10 minutes is so small.  I guess my priority would be making it so we can exclude LTC from our multipool.

The change of finding a block in 10 minutes is half the chance of finding one in 20 minutes.
If the average round length was 60 minutes, you've done 1/6th of the work, and have 1/6th of the chance of getting a reward.
The expected return is exactly the same as mining LTC full time, but the variance is much higher, and that is a valid concern.
How is this complaint any different from low-hashrate miners complaining about mining in a pool with 512 difficulty?
Yes, they will miss many rounds, but the rounds they do submit shares for will make up for it, and the average will be exactly the same, but again their variance will be much higher.
Personally I have a low hash-rate, and would rather stick to the fast turnaround coins to reduce my variability, but the complaint that the work is 'wasted' just doesn't make sense.

BTC: 16TgAGdiTSsTWSsBDphebNJCFr1NT78xFW
SRC: scefi1XMhq91n3oF5FrE3HqddVvvCZP9KB
ranlo
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September 05, 2013, 03:44:18 PM
 #2844

Can someone please share your settings and reject % for the fast coins (like the current WDC)?

I set expiry: 1, scantime: 1, queue: 0

I get ~70% rejects like that. With expiry/scantime both at 5 I get 75% rejects...

Note: this is with ~7 MH/s. Is that normal?

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willittobe
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September 05, 2013, 04:14:04 PM
 #2845

Can someone please share your settings and reject % for the fast coins (like the current WDC)?

I set expiry: 1, scantime: 1, queue: 0

I get ~70% rejects like that. With expiry/scantime both at 5 I get 75% rejects...

Note: this is with ~7 MH/s. Is that normal?

I am under the impression that these settings do not have *any* effect when using stratum...

Lucky - Luciano
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September 05, 2013, 04:29:17 PM
 #2846

What is with the implementation of automatic exchange of the most profitable coin for LTC or BTC? Thank you.
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September 05, 2013, 11:17:28 PM
 #2847

Flound, have you taken a look at Extremecoin? Just from casual notice, it seems to handle difficulty changes pretty well, and has a decent steady hash power behind it.
flound1129 (OP)
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September 06, 2013, 03:57:07 AM
 #2848

Flound, have you taken a look at Extremecoin? Just from casual notice, it seems to handle difficulty changes pretty well, and has a decent steady hash power behind it.

I've looked at it, but I believe the block reward goes from 200 down to 1 at block 5,000 or something crazy like that.

It's going to fizzle out like a bad fart.

Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
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September 06, 2013, 03:57:48 AM
 #2849

I'm currently looking at what it would take to get the LTC pool onto p2pool.  That would lower the variance quite a bit for our LTC payouts.

Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
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September 06, 2013, 04:02:33 AM
 #2850

I'm currently looking at what it would take to get the LTC pool onto p2pool.  That would lower the variance quite a bit for our LTC payouts.

That may help... I ran a split test between here and Middlecoin. After 12 hours, 0.027 was earned here and 0.063 earned at Middlecoin with the same hash rate. That's a pretty massive difference, and I have the feeling it's because of LTC.

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flound1129 (OP)
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September 06, 2013, 04:23:33 AM
 #2851

I'm currently looking at what it would take to get the LTC pool onto p2pool.  That would lower the variance quite a bit for our LTC payouts.

That may help... I ran a split test between here and Middlecoin. After 12 hours, 0.027 was earned here and 0.063 earned at Middlecoin with the same hash rate. That's a pretty massive difference, and I have the feeling it's because of LTC.

12 hours isn't really a statistically significant time period..  Did you get your reject issue worked out?

Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
flound1129 (OP)
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September 06, 2013, 04:30:03 AM
 #2852

FWIW, I'm showing a profit of 0.021 for the last 24 hours with ~1.2MH.  That's about 3x Bitcoin profitability.  I don't see how I could have possibly made 3x that on Middlecoin, that would put them at 9x Bitcoin.

LTC also had a jump in price and a lowering in difficulty, which is the reason its profiability went to 4.  It was around 3.4 this morning IIRC.

I'm going to disable LTC from the multiport for the next 48 hours and see how it affects profits.

Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
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September 06, 2013, 05:11:59 AM
 #2853

FWIW, I'm showing a profit of 0.021 for the last 24 hours with ~1.2MH.  That's about 3x Bitcoin profitability.  I don't see how I could have possibly made 3x that on Middlecoin, that would put them at 9x Bitcoin.

LTC also had a jump in price and a lowering in difficulty, which is the reason its profiability went to 4.  It was around 3.4 this morning IIRC.

I'm going to disable LTC from the multiport for the next 48 hours and see how it affects profits.

What does this mean for ltc direct miners? Ltc is currently most profitable. If I switch lets say in 2 hrs to another multipool coin and no block is found till then, will it mean that all my shares go to oblivion?

https://whattomine.com - Check what to mine Smiley
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September 06, 2013, 05:35:49 AM
 #2854

I'm currently looking at what it would take to get the LTC pool onto p2pool.  That would lower the variance quite a bit for our LTC payouts.

That may help... I ran a split test between here and Middlecoin. After 12 hours, 0.027 was earned here and 0.063 earned at Middlecoin with the same hash rate. That's a pretty massive difference, and I have the feeling it's because of LTC.

12 hours isn't really a statistically significant time period..  Did you get your reject issue worked out?

No, it's possible that this was the issue... on LTC I have little to no stales. Every time we go to the others like WDC though I drop down to 25-30% luck (with a massive amount of rejects, 70% or so).

https://nanogames.io/i-bctalk-n/
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flound1129 (OP)
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September 06, 2013, 06:14:34 AM
 #2855

I'm currently looking at what it would take to get the LTC pool onto p2pool.  That would lower the variance quite a bit for our LTC payouts.

That may help... I ran a split test between here and Middlecoin. After 12 hours, 0.027 was earned here and 0.063 earned at Middlecoin with the same hash rate. That's a pretty massive difference, and I have the feeling it's because of LTC.

12 hours isn't really a statistically significant time period..  Did you get your reject issue worked out?

No, it's possible that this was the issue... on LTC I have little to no stales. Every time we go to the others like WDC though I drop down to 25-30% luck (with a massive amount of rejects, 70% or so).

Which pool address are you connecting to?

Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
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September 06, 2013, 07:32:53 AM
 #2856

FWIW, I'm showing a profit of 0.021 for the last 24 hours with ~1.2MH.  That's about 3x Bitcoin profitability.  I don't see how I could have possibly made 3x that on Middlecoin, that would put them at 9x Bitcoin.

LTC also had a jump in price and a lowering in difficulty, which is the reason its profiability went to 4.  It was around 3.4 this morning IIRC.

I'm going to disable LTC from the multiport for the next 48 hours and see how it affects profits.

What does this mean for ltc direct miners? Ltc is currently most profitable. If I switch lets say in 2 hrs to another multipool coin and no block is found till then, will it mean that all my shares go to oblivion?

"A: PPLNS stands for "Pay per Last N Shares." It means that whenever a block is found, payouts are given to everyone who submitted shares before a certain cutoff. Due to the coin hopping nature of the mutliport, this pool uses time-based PPLNS, rather than share-based. You can view the time cutoff for each coin on the Pool Stats pages."

So after I switch i enter this cutoff time right? When it passes, all my shares are lost?

Second thing I cant find cutoff time on pool server stats for LTC.

https://whattomine.com - Check what to mine Smiley
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September 06, 2013, 08:34:07 AM
 #2857

I'm currently looking at what it would take to get the LTC pool onto p2pool.  That would lower the variance quite a bit for our LTC payouts.
Cryptsy-"Notice: Do NOT use p2pool to deposit directly to your Cryptsy wallets, as it will not show the address in our wallet and we will be unable to credit your account."
I believe this is not going to affect planned work of LTC pool onto p2pool?

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September 06, 2013, 11:59:04 AM
 #2858

Is auto-switch working?  It's mining NVC while LTC is the most profitable right now.
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September 06, 2013, 12:00:55 PM
 #2859

Is auto-switch working?  It's mining NVC while LTC is the most profitable right now.

read #2858
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September 06, 2013, 12:40:55 PM
 #2860

I'm currently looking at what it would take to get the LTC pool onto p2pool.  That would lower the variance quite a bit for our LTC payouts.

That may help... I ran a split test between here and Middlecoin. After 12 hours, 0.027 was earned here and 0.063 earned at Middlecoin with the same hash rate. That's a pretty massive difference, and I have the feeling it's because of LTC.

12 hours isn't really a statistically significant time period..  Did you get your reject issue worked out?

No, it's possible that this was the issue... on LTC I have little to no stales. Every time we go to the others like WDC though I drop down to 25-30% luck (with a massive amount of rejects, 70% or so).

Which pool address are you connecting to?

The pool1 multipool one. I also ran pool2 for a while (trying to lower difficulty to see if that helped) but it appeared to be on a static 64 regardless of settings.

https://nanogames.io/i-bctalk-n/
Message for info on how to get kickbacks on sites like Nano (above) and CryptoPlay!
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