deisik (OP)
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November 13, 2016, 09:05:29 AM
Last edit: November 15, 2016, 07:32:44 PM by deisik |
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I've been telling people around the forum for many months already that the Chinese miners have over 90% of hashing power under their control, but most people were refusing to accept this truth. Given the nature of the political regime in Beijing, it is the Chinese authorities who are essentially controlling Bitcoin mining through the miners, not the miners themselves. Now that Donald Trump, the president-elect of the US, is going to impose hefty tariffs on the Chinese exports, could the Chinese government retaliate with, for example, through exerting their control over Chinese miners? What immediately comes to mind is the rejection of all or most Bitcoin transactions that stem from the US, or, as an option, raising the fees for such transactions, to mirror the tariffs that Trump is going to set...
So how likely is this, and what are the remedies, if any?
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The Bitcoin network protocol was designed to be extremely flexible. It can be used to create timed transactions, escrow transactions, multi-signature transactions, etc. The current features of the client only hint at what will be possible in the future.
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radiologist11
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November 13, 2016, 09:24:51 AM |
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I heard that if you wear a tinfoil hat it blocks the mind control rays that the Chinese miners create.
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odolvlobo
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November 13, 2016, 09:26:20 AM |
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How would they determine where the transaction originates?
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PGP Fingerprint: 6B6BC26599EC24EF7E29A405EAF050539D0B2925 Signing address: 13GAVJo8YaAuenj6keiEykwxWUZ7jMoSLt
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 09:26:32 AM |
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I've been telling people around the forum for many months already that the Chinese miners have over 90% of hashing power under their control, but most people were refusing to accept this truth. Given the nature of the political regime in Beijing, Chinese miners controlling Bitcoin mining basically means that it is the Chinese authorities which are essentially controlling it. Now that Donald Trump, the president-elect of the US, is going to impose hefty tariffs on the Chinese exports, what could the Chinese government retaliate with, for example, through exerting their control over Chinese miners? What immediately comes to mind is the rejection of all or most Bitcoin transactions that stem from the US...
So how likely is this, and what are the remedies, if any?
If Trump enacts the 45% Tariffs on Chinese Goods, you can almost guarantee it. There will be economic retaliations on both sides not seen since Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act of 1930s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_ActThe Tariff Act of 1930 (codified at 19 U.S.C. ch. 4), otherwise known as the Smoot–Hawley Tariff or Hawley–Smoot Tariff,[1] was an act sponsored by Senator Reed Smoot and Representative Willis C. Hawley and signed into law on June 17, 1930. The act raised U.S. tariffs on over 20,000 imported goods to record levels.[2]  |
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LoyceV
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November 13, 2016, 09:33:59 AM |
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Chinese miners are rich. Begin rich means they have power, also in China.
Satoshi always assumed rational miners, the miners need American transactions, without them their block reward will be worth less money. Less money for the miners means other miners take over, their 90% hasing power goes down, and Bitcoin becomres more decentralized again.
The Chinese government cannot control Bitcoin.
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franky1
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November 13, 2016, 09:34:18 AM |
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china has less hash power then you think BW.. are in mongolia aswell as other locations haobtc.. are in tibet aswell as other locations BTCC.. are around the world bitfury.. are in Finland, Iceland, and the Republic of Georgia. f2pool.. world wide miners put down your racist hats and put on some research glasses take f2pool. largest pool there is.. its hashpower is spread out across the world. its stratum servers are spread across the world. even the guy that runs the pool is not even in china he is in thailand Admin Name: Wang Chun Admin Organization: F2Pool Admin Street: Soi Naklua 16, Naklua Sub-District,, Admin City: Banglamung Admin State/Province: Chonburi Admin Postal Code: 020150 Admin Country: TH Admin Phone: +66.973040750 Admin Phone Ext: Admin Fax:+66.973040750 Admin Fax Ext: Admin Email: admin@f2pool.comeven their domain is not .cn so that the chinese cant even take the domain down. and dont bother replying with your 'evidence' of other racist opinions from other people that have not done any actual technical research again take off your racist hat and put on your research glasses and see the truth all your fearmongering has been mitigated ages ago. wake up and drop the racist card and start talking about the technical truth |
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 09:36:51 AM |
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 09:42:15 AM |
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china has less hash power then you think
wake up and drop the racist card and start talking about the technical truth
You're are so Stupid, you would not know the technical truth if it bit you in the ass. Why don't you say racist a few hundred more times, as if it makes any difference to a technical issue of 51% security attack. People see that China controls BTC , your BTC Devs can't even hard fork it to fix the transaction issues. SO QUIT LYING!!! Your Pitiful attempts at covering up a monumental issue are a waste of time. You know you lie so much , you must be a Lawyer.  FYI: Really , His Name is Wang Chung  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXu6QmxpJESounds like an 80s Rock Band, LOL, it is an 80s Rock Band |
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franky1
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November 13, 2016, 09:47:35 AM |
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waffle
hashpower distributed world wide statum servers distributed world wide domain names not .cn, but .com meaning not chinese administrators distributed world wide. you do realise that your concern is out dated. the pools mitigated your concern about 2 years ago. chinese government cannot take down the domains because they are not .cn chinese goverments cannot slap the admin because the admin are dotted around the world chinese goverments cannot take down the statum servers because they are dotted around the world chinese goverments cannot shut off 51%-90% of hashpower because 51%-90% of hash power IS NOT IN CHINA!! you are about two years too late. the so called chinese pools have already adapted and mitigated the risks. your issues have already been addressed and the issues you raise are resolved. you would actually have a valid point if: domains ended .cn stratum servers only existed in china farms were not in mongolia, Tibet, Finland, Iceland, and the Republic of Georgia and the rest of the world administrators were all in one building in china. but for all 4 points. those have been addressed ages ago |
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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BiTZeD
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November 13, 2016, 09:50:11 AM |
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A few things come my mind. How to know where the transaction comes from ? Also a transaction could be easily faked, even if the ability to know from where it does come by sending to an exchange and then withdrawing.
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 09:50:35 AM |
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waffle
hashpower distributed world wide statum servers distributed world wide domain names not .cn, but .com meaning not chinese administrators distributed world wide. you do realise that your concern is out dated. the pools mitigated your concern about 2 years ago. chinese government cannot take down the domains because they are not .cn chinese goverments cannot slap the admin because the admin are dotted around the world chinese goverments cannot take down the statum servers because they are dotted around the world chinese goverments cannot shut off 51% of hashpower because 90% of hash power IS NOT IN CHINA!! Chinese Government will not shut down the hashrate Stupid. They will use their over 51% control of the mining to Accept or Deny any transaction they see fit. Domain names have nothing to do with it, you're just showing how stupid you really are. |
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ranochigo
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November 13, 2016, 09:54:11 AM |
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It is almost impossible for miners to determine where the transaction comes from. Someone can connect from the US to a node in Australia to relay it. The IP address that you see on Blockchain.info is the node that first relayed the information to their node. The miners can however, try to compile a list of Bitcoin addresses that are linked to anyone or companies in the US and refuse to mine it. This is a really tedious process and it can be extremely inaccurate.
Take note that some of the miners are not located in China. The total hashing power originating from China is more like 60% as opposed to 90%,
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Jet Cash
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November 13, 2016, 09:54:34 AM |
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Wouldn't Bitcoin be a useful way for Chinese exporters to bypass sanctions?
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Offgrid campers allow you to enjoy life and preserve your health and wealth. Save old Cars - my project to save old cars from scrapage schemes, and to reduce the sale of new cars. My new Bitcoin transfer address is - bc1q9gtz8e40en6glgxwk4eujuau2fk5wxrprs6fys |
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deisik (OP)
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November 13, 2016, 09:55:29 AM
Last edit: November 13, 2016, 10:07:20 AM by deisik |
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How would they determine where the transaction originates?
Maybe, by web wallets from which the transaction is coming? I guess a lot of bitcoiners are using the Coinbase web wallet (I use it too, for the record) which is the US company, so the Chinese miners may just start rejecting all transactions that are coming from this wallet. I also suspect that a few other notable web wallets (Xapo anyone?) are primarily the US companies as well... There may also be American exchanges and mixers which could be heavily hit by this |
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 10:00:40 AM |
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How would they determine where the transaction originates?
Maybe, by web wallets from which the transaction is coming? I guess a lot of bitcoiners are using the Coinbase web wallet (I use it too, for the record) which is the US company, so the Chinese miners may just start rejecting all transactions that are coming from this wallet. I also suspect that a few other notable web wallets (Xapo anyone?) are also primarily the US companies... There may also be American exchanges and mixers which could be heavily hit by this All Exchanges keep track of your Name / Email Address /IP Address , even if you use a fake name and email, using cross reference techniques your location can be determined by your IP alone. All China has to do is get an approved list of BTC address from the Chinese Exchanges and just block the rest. EASY. |
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 10:04:21 AM |
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@franky1, You want to call this article a racist , it admits Chinese have more than 51% mining. https://cointelegraph.com/news/chinese-mining-pools-propose-alternative-8-mb-block-sizeFive of China's biggest mining pools — AntPool, F2Pool, BTCChina, BW Mining, and Huobi — have mutually agreed to a raise of the block size limit to 8 MB.
In a statement sent to CoinTelegraph and posted today on the Bitcoin subreddit, they collectively rejected Bitcoin core developer Gavin Andresen's proposal to raise the limit from 1 MB to 20 MB, and instead presented a compromise.
The mining pools came to the agreement at the National Conference Center in Beijing last Thursday. As they jointly account for some 55% to 60% of all hashing power on the Bitcoin network, it may now be increasingly unlikely that a consensus among the global Bitcoin community can be found on a block size increase to 20 MB
FYI: I have personally watched the BTC hash rate over the past year and saw just 3 of the Chinese Mining Pools with over 70% a few times. |
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deisik (OP)
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November 13, 2016, 10:05:32 AM |
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Chinese miners are rich. Begin rich means they have power, also in China.
Satoshi always assumed rational miners, the miners need American transactions, without them their block reward will be worth less money. Less money for the miners means other miners take over, their 90% hasing power goes down, and Bitcoin becomres more decentralized again.
The Chinese government cannot control Bitcoin.
You don't take into account that in this case the Chinese government could support their miners or even start mining bitcoins themselves by establishing new pools or directly taking control over existing ones. They have all the resources, and they certainly have the equipment (just look here). Personally, I don't think that it will ever come to this, but, on the other hand, the miners could just raise the fees for the American transactions. That seems to be the most rational reply to Trump raising tariffs on the Chinese goods. As I said elsewhere, the rumors of the Chinese authorities going to implement Bitcoin controls might not have been rumors at all... In fact, they might have been a warning |
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ranochigo
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November 13, 2016, 10:13:31 AM |
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How would they determine where the transaction originates?
Maybe, by web wallets from which the transaction is coming? I guess a lot of bitcoiners are using the Coinbase web wallet (I use it too, for the record) which is the US company, so the Chinese miners may just start rejecting all transactions that are coming from this wallet. I also suspect that a few other notable web wallets (Xapo anyone?) are also primarily the US companies... There may also be American exchanges and mixers which could be heavily hit by this All Exchanges keep track of your Name / Email Address /IP Address , even if you use a fake name and email, using cross reference techniques your location can be determined by your IP alone. All China has to do is get an approved list of BTC address from the Chinese Exchanges and just block the rest. EASY. So everyone else but China will get their transactions confirmed slowly? Slowing down the adoption rate and crash the price? Wow. Chinese miners who are looking for profit will DEFINITELY agree to this. |
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 10:17:44 AM |
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How would they determine where the transaction originates?
Maybe, by web wallets from which the transaction is coming? I guess a lot of bitcoiners are using the Coinbase web wallet (I use it too, for the record) which is the US company, so the Chinese miners may just start rejecting all transactions that are coming from this wallet. I also suspect that a few other notable web wallets (Xapo anyone?) are also primarily the US companies... There may also be American exchanges and mixers which could be heavily hit by this All Exchanges keep track of your Name / Email Address /IP Address , even if you use a fake name and email, using cross reference techniques your location can be determined by your IP alone. All China has to do is get an approved list of BTC address from the Chinese Exchanges and just block the rest. EASY. So everyone else but China will get their transactions confirmed slowly? Slowing down the adoption rate and crash the price? Wow. Chinese miners who are looking for profit will DEFINITELY agree to this. Are you Married? Have a kid? Do you think those guys running the mining pools , don't have someone they love in China? Do you really not understand the Chinese Officials will harm or in prison their loved ones.
Grow the F. UP !https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1799086/former-prisoners-reveal-horrific-torture-taking-place-in-chinese-prisons/ FYI: If you don't know there are more important things in life than Profit, then I pity you. |
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kiklo
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November 13, 2016, 10:26:30 AM |
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@franky1 You will want to call this article racist too, they also state China has more than 51% . https://www.hobbymining.com/bitcoin-mining-in-china/Bitcoin Mining in China
China is a world leader in Bitcoin mining and trading.
Chinese mining pools control more than 60% of the network hash rate.
Massive mining farms are located in China and pointed at these mining pools. |
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