Post your SegWit questions here - open discussion - big week for Bitcoin!

[achow101]

I had plans to buy a Trezor and I came across their blog[1] post regarding Litecoin SegWit new addresses. Do I understand from this that bitcoin is going to have addresses that start with other then "1" and "3" as well? If that's the case, is it possible to choose? or the new addresses are going to be the only ones (means the old will be invalid)

[1] https://blog.trezor.io/litecoins-new-p2sh-segwit-addresses-843633e3e707

Litecoin's thing is completely unrelated and irrelevant to Bitcoin. The current addresses will work and continue to work; making them not work would be a backwards incompatible change. Segwit will eventually have its own addresses which you can choose to use if you wish, but for now, segwit will work via P2SH addresses (3... addresses) instead of a native segwit address.

[Bergmann_Christoph]

That is even better for decentralized off-chain, because the Nash-Equilibrium for a 2way payment channel is trivial.
2 parties
cheat/try to gain an advantage = loose everything

Could my grandma cheat accidentally?

I'm disappointed to see this brillant question not answered.

Did someone ever discuss this whole class of attacks on LN?

Can some bug in a root service, like a 2yk or a big number bug, make someone accidently send an old channel tx? I guess it is possible.

Can someone write a malware tricking a LN client into releasing an old tx? I guess it is possible.

And, something else: Does a LN client need to keep its private keys in memory to serve as a hub for other payments? If not, he must manually approve every transaction made through his channel.

[Wind_FURY]

There is some mention of Flexbile Transactions as an alternative to Segwit among the BitcoinCash crowd. They claim it is better than Segwit and that soon it will be included as an upgrade in BCC.

This is what they claim. I am not a coder or a technical person so please tell us if what they claim is true or untrue.

Feature   SegWit   FlexTrans
Fixes Malleability   ✅   ✅
Linear scaling of hashing   ✅   ✅
Hardware wallet Support   ✅   ✅
Makes transactions smaller   ❌   ✅
Supports the Lightning Network   ✅   ✅
Signatures can be pruned (in future)   ✅   ✅
Double Spend Proofs   ❌   ✅
Support future script versions   ✅   ✅
No "two buckets" economics   ❌   ✅

[achow101]

There is some mention of Flexbile Transactions as an alternative to Segwit among the BitcoinCash crowd. They claim it is better than Segwit and that soon it will be included as an upgrade in BCC.

Flextrans is not better than segwit and that table you posted is very miseleading. Flextrans has several problems. You can read explanations for why segwit is better than flextrans here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1822954.0

[bitblackred]

There is some mention of Flexbile Transactions as an alternative to Segwit among the BitcoinCash crowd. They claim it is better than Segwit and that soon it will be included as an upgrade in BCC.

Flextrans is not better than segwit and that table you posted is very miseleading. Flextrans has several problems. You can read explanations for why segwit is better than flextrans here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1822954.0

do u want to say what segwit doesnt have the same problems?

[MarketMagic]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

[OmegaStarScream]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

[hv_]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

[cr1776]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

The answer to the "WTF" is in the comments on github and the dev mail list if you wish to understand more of the issues.

[classicsucks]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

[hv_]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

Divide&Control-Maximalists, rather than Bitcoin-Maximalists ? What is the signal to the miners or even all alt-coiners ?

[Rahar02]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

[MarketMagic]

Bitcoin ABC has no plans to activate Segregated Witness whatsoever.I think if Segwit2x follows through with the 2x part there will be no further split but if not there will be on account of BCC/BCH not ever activating segwit.

[classicsucks]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

I agree. The miners were smarter this time however - they don't say it, but the implicit threat of Bitcoin Cash is that if the 2x hard fork is not honored, the miners will switch to the Bitcoin Cash chain. If 60% of hashpower switched to mining Bitcoin Cash overnight (for example), it would essentially be the end of Core's bitcoin - the lingering difficulty would cause blocks to be mined every 12 hours. This would cause a situation where Core Bitcoin is marginally useful and worth far less than its current inflated value...

[neurotypical]

I have been in bitcoin for years and i have never been more excited to see a feature added than segwit, because it will allow for a lot of other things. But something that keeps worrying me is, I have heard quite a lot of people talking about a potential vulnerability that could be exploited by malicious miners, that could steal the money held in segwit format addresses creating a "DAO type" event, as in all these addresses could become a nice price pot for attacker.

I don't know the details but I would like some input on this, if you need more info I will try to find it, I don't remember right now who wrote this, but it had something to do with a DAO style disaster with segwit.

[hv_]

I have been in bitcoin for years and i have never been more excited to see a feature added than segwit, because it will allow for a lot of other things. But something that keeps worrying me is, I have heard quite a lot of people talking about a potential vulnerability that could be exploited by malicious miners, that could steal the money held in segwit format addresses creating a "DAO type" event, as in all these addresses could become a nice price pot for attacker.

I don't know the details but I would like some input on this, if you need more info I will try to find it, I don't remember right now who wrote this, but it had something to do with a DAO style disaster with segwit.

I understand most of that 'feature' and deployment hype. But a feature (for one group) could be a anti-feature or harm for the other. There is always a trade off and no free lunch.

And we can all see, one group see rather the harm. So what should we (Coders) do i.o. to reach Nakamoto Consensus?

Force?


What is good practice to solve stalling?

[JayJuanGee]

Will bitcoincore accept segwit 2x or will this cause another hard fork later?

We will probably see another fork and bitcoin core 0.15.0 won't support SegWit2x, It will actually disconnect nodes running that proposal from what I read on Reddit.

Yeah. WTF

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10982

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

I think that there is a whole hell-of-a lot less justification for the 2x part of segwit2x, after the lunatic renagade hardforkers decided to fork and to attempt to undermine bitcoin - so whether they are all part of the same 2x team or not - they essentially undermined and sabatoged the 2x portion of the segwit2x deal by engaging in unilateral premature forking.. those forkers!!!!  

So fuck the 2x part.  Let's stick with 2x, and if they want to fork again for another dumb-ass and lame coin, then so be it.  Bitcoin will move on and be stronger for not jumping to rash conclusions, sticking with the better technological choices, and not giving into terrororists and hostage takers. If down the road, 2 years or more, there is some kind of actual technical justification for the 2x portion of segwit2x, then that can be addressed down the road when there is an actual justification for such measures..,. don't be wasting time adding 2x features, when they seem to be absolutely unneeded and the 2mb limit increase seems blikely to cause more problems and issues than it would actually solve... so fuck the forkers and fuck the big blockers, their arguments are neither factually nor logically persuasive.  

[Rahar02]

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

I agree. The miners were smarter this time however - they don't say it, but the implicit threat of Bitcoin Cash is that if the 2x hard fork is not honored, the miners will switch to the Bitcoin Cash chain. If 60% of hashpower switched to mining Bitcoin Cash overnight (for example), it would essentially be the end of Core's bitcoin - the lingering difficulty would cause blocks to be mined every 12 hours. This would cause a situation where Core Bitcoin is marginally useful and worth far less than its current inflated value...

Honestly, I don't think miners or majority hashrate will switch to bitcoin cash, bitcoin segwit or segwit2x are better than bcash according to the nodes and business acceptance. Bcash will rise, maybe in one or two months later but the situation will be the same, people will sell bcash to convert into bitcoin, there will always one bitcoin, not 2 or 3.

[suvo05]

I am not a technical person. So I am still confused about SegWit. I have still no clue what actually it is. The only thing I know that it helped the BTC value rise. Can anyone describe easily what SegWit  actually is?

[classicsucks]

They really are THAT stupid. Don't they know that they'll just drive more users to BCC/BCH/Bitcoin Cash?

I still believe that segwit2x is a bait to activate segwit and core won't support 2Mb hard fork obviously, and we don't know yet, how many miners will support this hard fork or how long it could fulfill the threshold. Segwit2x or 2Mb hard fork has been scheduled to take place in November but Bitcoin Core 0.15.0 will automatically disconnect nodes running Bitcoin ABC and the segwit fork. So, the answer is, hard fork unlikely to happen. Or, maybe I am wrong about it, let's see what will happen in November.

I agree. The miners were smarter this time however - they don't say it, but the implicit threat of Bitcoin Cash is that if the 2x hard fork is not honored, the miners will switch to the Bitcoin Cash chain. If 60% of hashpower switched to mining Bitcoin Cash overnight (for example), it would essentially be the end of Core's bitcoin - the lingering difficulty would cause blocks to be mined every 12 hours. This would cause a situation where Core Bitcoin is marginally useful and worth far less than its current inflated value...

Honestly, I don't think miners or majority hashrate will switch to bitcoin cash, bitcoin segwit or segwit2x are better than bcash according to the nodes and business acceptance. Bcash will rise, maybe in one or two months later but the situation will be the same, people will sell bcash to convert into bitcoin, there will always one bitcoin, not 2 or 3.

Have you any idea how easy it is to re-provision the existing BTC infrastructure for BCC?  Let's put it this way, it's probably 100 times easier to migrate to BCC than it is to code up Segwit transaction support in every exchange site, vendor app, etc. And remember that Segwit software utility support is still below 50%...

If the SHTF with Segwit2x vs. Segwit, things can start happening fast again, like they did in late July...