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Author Topic: SegWit, are we sure about this?  (Read 1520 times)
Quantus (OP)
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November 16, 2016, 07:51:51 AM
 #1

 SegWit, are we sure about this? I'm embarrassed that I'm a little nervous.  Dose Bitcointalk have any doubts or are you guys pumped for SegWit?

(I am a 1MB block supporter who thinks all users should be using Full-Node clients)
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November 16, 2016, 08:46:26 AM
 #2

There are couple of good things that SegWit will bring to bitcoin.  Even if I am not in favor of this, I don't have the capability to contribute in bitcoin coding or propose and alternative solution to the current issue of bitcoin.  As I browse thru the benefits of SegWit, it will boost bitcoin useability, and even it will minimize the complexity of integrating smart contracts to bitcoin.  so all in all after SegWit activation, bitcoin as believed will be more open to future upgrades.
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November 16, 2016, 08:57:56 AM
 #3

What exactly are you worried about? Segwit is the most peer reviewed change to date.

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November 16, 2016, 09:16:50 AM
 #4

only time will tell. but i do hope for the best. we are at a point (and have been for some time) were bitcoin is so complex and big, that changes are slow and hard to see through. what is the worst that can happen? o yeah we burn a billion $$$ and learn a lesson. 

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November 16, 2016, 09:23:29 AM
 #5

I think it's about time we had smart contracts for the most widely used cryto currency on the planet!

Personally waiting to see several sites I am on dive into Segwit. Like most, I will only be a bystander though!

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November 16, 2016, 09:33:30 AM
 #6

we are at a point (and have been for some time) were bitcoin is so complex and big, that changes are slow and hard to see through.
Changes have to be slow, otherwise we are in for a ETH-like disaster where the only two choices are: 1) Accept a huge loss. 2) Become a bailout coin.

I think it's about time we had smart contracts for the most widely used cryto currency on the planet!
What are you talking about? Segwit has nothing to do with smart contracts. Look for Rootstock, that's where your smart contracts currently are/will be.


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November 16, 2016, 09:42:25 AM
 #7

we are at a point (and have been for some time) were bitcoin is so complex and big, that changes are slow and hard to see through.
Changes have to be slow, otherwise we are in for a ETH-like disaster where the only two choices are: 1) Accept a huge loss. 2) Become a bailout coin.
that is true and i do not want to suggest to rush things. my point was that even if everybody is on board with a decision it takes time to go through with it, but because of the many different opinions the process of agreeing on the way to go is a very slow one. 

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November 16, 2016, 01:35:39 PM
 #8

We have nothing better for now and SegWit is really good. So yes, we are sure this is the direction we're heading...
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November 16, 2016, 02:44:24 PM
 #9

I strongly support SegWit. It's a truly intelligent solution to enable scaling Bitcoin without sacrificing decentralization. It also fixes transaction malleability once and for all. So it's not only about scaling, but also about security. I already upgraded my node to 0.13.1 and given the adoption rate by other nodes, support is strong.

So I'm free of doubts and I'm confident that we will see SegWit activation by end of this year. Obstructionist racketeer Roger Ver will loose all what is left of his credibility and will be sidelined by the Bitcoin community.

ya.ya.yo!

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November 16, 2016, 06:24:47 PM
 #10

... Roger Ver ... credibility ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1YsMlrfF0

Grin
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November 16, 2016, 06:36:18 PM
 #11

I don't fully understand segwit but i could probably tell that it is good. Since we can simply monitor our outgoing transcations from the id and base on the veterans in this forum this is surely a good thing , we could try to at least innovate
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November 16, 2016, 07:00:00 PM
Last edit: November 16, 2016, 07:11:46 PM by franky1
 #12


he's reading from a script. not speaking from his heart.
like someone is telling him what to say.



now lets see gmaxwell talk about his companies agenda when someone mentions bitcoin having a dictating leader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SeHNXdJCtE

"for wallet behavior, clients non normative stuff, yes sure go fork, please go fork, stop bothering me." (context of the community wanting him to join consensus, and him saying no)

"we are vulnerable to people wanting to jam bitcoin, either traditional money system or another cryptocurrency system" (context of dictatorship control)

and ofcourse gmaxwell loves his altcoins(monero) aswell as being paid to make hyperledger(bankers cryptocurrency system) and being part of the group that owns bitcoincore, bitcoinj XT, knots green address, bloq and many more bitcoin wallets



when the horses mouth(maxwell) is telling you that if you want change that is not dictated by those paid by bankers, requires forking off to an altcoin to get momentum.. you start to see the problem
What you are describing is what I and others call a bilaterial hardfork-- where both sides reject the other.
I tried to convince the authors of BIP101 to make their proposal bilateral

bitcoins single most best security feature is not the blockchain or PoW. its consensus.
the funny thing is gmawell hates consensus in bitcoin but loves it and concentrating on in in hyperledger
the funny thing is gmawell hates dymantic blocksize in bitcoin but loves it and concentrating on in in monero

funny how he pretends to say it keeps him up at night(context of banker takeover). yet he could always resign from blockstream and stop playing with altcoins and just do something positive for the bitcoin community. but im guessing he sleeps like a comforted baby and to use his words is looking forward to "the experiment failing".

he has lost all care for bitcoin and is happy in the banker camp of hyperledger who are slowly taking over and gaining ground with having ownership of well over 51% of code


as for segwit. its november 16th and after core said it needs 18 months for any other big thing to beactivated.. core are saying segwit by christmas. with code only pblicly usable ON BITCOINS MAINNET!! for a couple weeks.

as for the malleability fix.
does it fix double spends. nope. RBF, CPFP now allows double spends
did it ever have an issue for LN. nope because LN is a dual signing process. so a tx cannot just be manipulated after broadcast to then override the first tx. due to it needing second party signing on the second manipulated tx. thus the dual signing alone countered that.

as for linear/quadratic fix.
is there ever a need to have 1000 signatures in one tx? um no.. so limiting sigops could have solved it.

as for the 2mb debate.
is setwit preventing bloat to be well under 2mb. nope. it can go upto 4mb due to enough buffer space for payment codes and other features. BUT still hindering the transaction capacity growth.
yep 1.8mb block for ~4500 is the new expectation. the other 2.3mb buffer is for mondane non transaction capacity bloat features like confidential payment codes and mundate data to pair to a hyperledger sidechain

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 16, 2016, 07:02:24 PM
 #13

Does SegWit introduce known vulnerabilities? I imagine we can loosely say "maybe" for any change, but is there a pretty concrete risk associated with its code? Or are these just residual, vague concerns despite the peer review and testing to date?

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November 16, 2016, 07:19:05 PM
 #14

Does SegWit introduce known vulnerabilities? I imagine we can loosely say "maybe" for any change, but is there a pretty concrete risk associated with its code? Or are these just residual, vague concerns despite the peer review and testing to date?

oh you do know that 0.13.1 (released) is not fully segwit active. you will be required to download yet another version when active to actually use a segwit wallet features.

and then...

changing your funds from lagacy keypairs to new HD segwit compatible seeded addresses has risks
eg exchange/merchants needing to replace everyones deposit addresses and reaudit funds

changes to RPC calls has risks

this is why i laugh when people are screaming to just run segwit on mainnet and "trust" the devs have reviewed it. though only as an altcoin (testnet/segnet) not as a bitcoin mainnet node

dont expect smart people to run it blindly. they will all do independant tests. move funds, audit funds warn customers of different deposit addresses..

in short dont expect anything to change by christmas, or expect ~4500 instead of ~2500 transaction before spring.. well lets call it summer before anything actually starts to be noticable

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 16, 2016, 08:42:46 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2016, 03:45:23 PM by deisik
 #15

SegWit, are we sure about this? I'm embarrassed that I'm a little nervous.  Dose Bitcointalk have any doubts or are you guys pumped for SegWit?

As I got it from from the SegWit benefits (namely, from the part which I don't feel completely lost at), this update allows new nodes to raise the block size limit to about 4 MB (now it is 1 MB). If I'm not mistaken, larger blocks allow to accommodate more transactions, most likely 4 times the amount as of now. This has double benefit. First, it increases the network capacity to process more transactions and, second, the amount of miners fees will increase proportionately with the number of transactions when Bitcoin adoption eventually scales up...

There are probably other benefits associated with raising the block size limit

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November 16, 2016, 08:49:07 PM
 #16

100 or so developers are surely gonna know more than i ever will about what's best for bitcoin. considering what's at stake these days then they must be very confident. i guess no upgrade is 100% impregnable but sometimes you need to take a step up whatever.
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November 16, 2016, 10:29:04 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2016, 05:07:26 AM by franky1
 #17

SegWit, are we sure about this? I'm embarrassed that I'm a little nervous.  Dose Bitcointalk have any doubts or are you guys pumped for SegWit?

As I got it from from the SegWit benefits (namely, from he part which I don't feel completely lost at), this update allows new nodes to raise the block size limit to about 4 MB (now it is 1 MB). If I'm not mistaken, larger blocks allow to accommodate more transactions, most likely 4 times the amount as of now.

you got it wrong..
thats 4mb of data.. not 4x transactions.

the baseblock is still 1mb... and still limits capacity..

which if utilising segwit converts to about a maximum expectation of about 1.8mb of complete transaction data at best.

expect the average ~2500 transactions per block now. to be ATBEST ~4500 transactions.

the 4mb total weight is 1mb base and 3mb separate section(partly used by segwit signatures(the 0.8mb accounted for in the underline above))
the rest of the 2.2mb empty buffer space which core are allowing is not for more transactions. but other mundane data and features later on.

later on when new features are added.
it will still be ~4500 transactions but room to include payment codes and mundane data in that transaction.
eg
legacy 1mb= txid - inputs - outputs - value - signature  = total 1mb of 1mb for 2500tx
segwit 1mb= txid - inputs - outputs - value... 0.8mb -Witnesstxid - signature  = total 1.8mb of 4mb for 4500tx
future 1mb= txid - inputs - outputs - value... 0.8mb -Witnesstxid - signature... 2.2mb otherfeatures = total total 4mb of 4mb for 4500tx

you wont see the red (baseblock) change to allow more than 1mb.

though many would wish for:
segwit 2mb= txid - inputs - outputs - value... 1.5mb -Witnesstxid - signature  = total 3.5mb of 4mb for 9000tx
future 2mb= txid - inputs - outputs - value... 1.5mb -Witnesstxid - signature... 0.5mb otherfeatures = total total 4mb of 4mb for 9000tx

but that would require core to join a logical consensus and not back out and prevent that.. with something like 'we paid for the consensus round table to discuss possible bips, we organised who gets to attend. we even called it consensus, but when we turned up we pretended to just be janitors that cant code a solution so that after the agreement we didnt have to do what had been agreed at the consensus discussion'

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 17, 2016, 06:01:34 AM
 #18

Does SegWit introduce known vulnerabilities? I imagine we can loosely say "maybe" for any change, but is there a pretty concrete risk associated with its code? Or are these just residual, vague concerns despite the peer review and testing to date?

oh you do know that 0.13.1 (released) is not fully segwit active. you will be required to download yet another version when active to actually use a segwit wallet features.

and then...

changing your funds from lagacy keypairs to new HD segwit compatible seeded addresses has risks
eg exchange/merchants needing to replace everyones deposit addresses and reaudit funds

changes to RPC calls has risks

this is why i laugh when people are screaming to just run segwit on mainnet and "trust" the devs have reviewed it. though only as an altcoin (testnet/segnet) not as a bitcoin mainnet node

dont expect smart people to run it blindly. they will all do independant tests. move funds, audit funds warn customers of different deposit addresses..

in short dont expect anything to change by christmas, or expect ~4500 instead of ~2500 transaction before spring.. well lets call it summer before anything actually starts to be noticable


It should be that way. For me, I personally want it to go as slowly but surely as possible. There is no need for a rush here unless there is a Bitcoin doomsday saying that the core developers must hurry up or else Bitcoin will break. The big blockers should also have the same view and must also be willing to criticize both segwit/LN and BU/big block implementation from an objective point of view.

Speaking of the Bitcoin doomsday, did Mike Hearn mention that unless Bitcoin hard fork's to XT, it will die by this time in his time frame? I was lurking this forum at that time so I am not sure.

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November 17, 2016, 02:30:50 PM
 #19

I was just requested by my mobile client's automatic fee calculation to spend 17 cents as fee to have my transaction included in the next block. I hope OP is transacting now and is thanking for the creation of SegWit Cheesy And we aren't even too congestioned.
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November 17, 2016, 02:45:57 PM
 #20

Does anyone know if Segwit will cause compatibility issues with APIs and payment systems?



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