What will happen to the transaction fee?

[ranochigo]

Neither am I. But would that not be basing the value of the transaction on dollars?
As I understand it, it is usually calculated per bytes and in BTC. So if the price of bitcoin rises, so does the value of the tx fee.

Although I remember back in October 2014:
1 BTC = $350 and tx fees was around .0001 = $.04 , yet now
1 BTC = $740 while the tx fees has doubled at .0002 = $.15

So, I just keep seeing it go up. I do hope it doesn't double again.

In the past, the size of the blocks were significantly smaller and miners have more capacity to include more transactions into their block. With the increasing transaction volume, blocks are getting extremely close to 1MB per and they simply don't have so much capacity and accept transactions with smaller fees. If the block size does increase or segwit works well, miners can accept more transactions.

Transactions with very low fee will still confirm, just over a long period of time.

Okay. Thanks, that helped. Since I must admit I didn't know one could actually send without fees.
Though you really should have included the link.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees
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Anyone tried this?

Transactions can be relayed if they fits under the free transaction policy. However, the transactions have a very low chance of getting confirmed over the next few blocks. The problem with this is that miners are choosing to accept the transactions with fees first and blocks are mostly filled with them. I sent a transaction without fee and it took weeks to confirm.

[jeraldskie11]

Transaction fee will be given when you transfer your money or convert into other wallet. Although the transaction fee is paid, it is also increasing the fee depends on value of the money you transact. In the other words, the transaction fee is deduct to your actual money you transact. Therefore, the amount of the transaction fee will be pay depend on the percent they want to get from you to be successful confirmed.

[Aamir1]

Ofcourse it is possible, the value of fees depend on the price of bitcoin, for example if now we pay 0.0005BTC for a transaction which lets suppose is equal to $0.3 and if the price of bitcoin gets doubled from what it is now and we pay 0.0005BTC for a transaction that would cost $3 for that, so it depends on the price of bitcoin.

[ranochigo]

Transaction fee will be given when you transfer your money or convert into other wallet. Although the transaction fee is paid, it is also increasing the fee depends on value of the money you transact. In the other words, the transaction fee is deduct to your actual money you transact. Therefore, the amount of the transaction fee will be pay depend on the percent they want to get from you to be successful confirmed.

The total transaction fee is the total outputs minus the total inputs. The miners will be able to claim them if they mined a block. The fee you pay can vary, miners look at the fees/kb or fees/b to ensure that they earn the most transaction fees for the block. You can choose your own transaction fees, the higher it is, the higher chance that the next miner would include it into their block.

[streazight]

Actually it is pretty simple, if the price of bitcoins is sky high then we pay fees accordingly and the miners being paid good since the value of bitcoins is high would happily continue to mine. Problem happens when the price is low and then miners want more fees.

[ivanst776]

I began to wonder what will happen with the amount of transaction fee in the future..

I mean, that transaction fee continues to grow, increasing also Bitcoin price.

Now optimal fee is ~19k satoshi, but what gonna happen in few years? How high can be transaction fee when Bitcoin price will be let say $10k?   

Is it possible that transaction fee in future will be for example $10 ? 

I think that the transaction fee should stay at $0.10 - $0.20 all the time whatever the bitcoin price will be.

If a transaction fee gets to $10 then it would be very hard to make transaction because they don't check if a transaction has a vlue of $1 or $1 million dollar, they check only the transaction size.

[clickerz]

Actually it is pretty simple, if the price of bitcoins is sky high then we pay fees accordingly and the miners being paid good since the value of bitcoins is high would happily continue to mine. Problem happens when the price is low and then miners want more fees.

That's right. Eventhough the fees had increased, still sending through bitcoin is the cheapest option in my opinion. Unless there is another popular coin to use that the community will support it. It is ok to increased for me, since the mining are also doing their share. If no miners,thransaction will be delayed. I think its a good option also.

[PokerFace3]

I don't think the tx fee would ever increase to as high as $10, but I'm not quite aware of the workings of why it has been going up in the first place besides the increase in transaction load. I'm worried more about the size of the blockchain growing faster than Moore's Law.

Yes, I wonder the same, I am non technical and what I know is pay at least .0002 fees at least to make sure the confirmation occurs timely. Maybe the mining is less profitable with time due to difficult increase or something .. well while I am concerned it is increasing but I am not worried since the developers will sort it

[buwaytress]

Let's face it, the majority of miners (we must acknowledge the few who still volunteer their hashpower to nominal fee transactions) are in it for profit.

They first have to offset their mining costs (which is still mainly a fiat cost) and then think about a percentage to take as profit for their work.

Since most networks calculate transaction fee in the cryptocurrency itself, and as a percentage of the output size, then the coin's value obviously will come into play at some point. For example, if BTC drops to $100 today, the current minimum network fees would probably barely cover costs of most miners. It's possible increasing complexity has a bigger role in pushing up coin price than we estimate.

[ranochigo]

I don't think the tx fee would ever increase to as high as $10, but I'm not quite aware of the workings of why it has been going up in the first place besides the increase in transaction load. I'm worried more about the size of the blockchain growing faster than Moore's Law.

Yes, I wonder the same, I am non technical and what I know is pay at least .0002 fees at least to make sure the confirmation occurs timely. Maybe the mining is less profitable with time due to difficult increase or something .. well while I am concerned it is increasing but I am not worried since the developers will sort it

Miners do not care about the total fees you paid for the transaction. They care about the amount you pay PER fixed size. The higher it is, the more efficient they can use the 1MB block space.

Actually, most miners rely on block rewards for their income and they do not care a whole lot about transaction fees. However, the blocks are nearly filled to the brim as of now and they can only include that much transactions. And the transactions are mostly ranked from the highest fee to the lowest fee per byte.

[xvacator]

we should be thinking about moving the minimum fees down to 100sat/kb. when the fiat valuation rises.

but nah. core wants to push the fee war by introducing 0.0002 fall backs and then average fees etc
rather than letting transactions through and letting pools be instantly reactive to demand and open to decide,

so lets show a scenario where nodes AND pools used the "averaging" instead of reactive

in the future it wont matter what you set in your node. if someone else in the network had their relay fee set to "average" or say 0.00024. this will cause transactions to hop around the network of ethical nodes but then get dropped by the expensive node BEFORE even getting to a pool.

imagine there were 7 hops to reach a Pool from yoUr node, and each node in the relay set a different rate

U->0.00010->0.00012->0.00016->0.00018->0.00020->0.00022->0.00024->P

now imagine you have 1000tx of 0.00011 they get dropped here. and pool never sees it
now imagine you have 1000tx of 0.00019 they get dropped here. and pool never sees it
now imagine you have 1000tx of 0.00023 they get dropped here. and pool never sees it
now imagine you have 1000tx of 0.00024 they get through and pool sees it

whatever node has the highest rate between you and a pool becomes a gatekeeper, keeping cheap transactions from reaching the pool. forcing people to pay more just to be let past the gatekeeper to even be seen by the pool.
enforcing a fee war of a price rise just to be seen even during low demand.

also pools themselves wont just add any tx if demand was low not just because they are not even receiving tx's but also the "average fee" doesnt instantly react. but slowly reacts over a number of blocks. as they are no longer reactive to just add what they please, but now what gets added is based on an "averaging".

now continue imagining the pool only sees transactions over 0.00024(due to average previous demand). and an "average fee" of 3 hours (like 21.co uses) takes upto 18 blocks to bring the average down. meaning pools then makes empty blocks. until the average drops enough to see cheaper transactions

meaning if there were only 4000 sent in one 3 hours segment. where blocks allow 2500tx in per block
where the "average" network fee starts at 0.00024 due to previous demand

now imagine the 4000tx's vary in fee like this:
1000tx of 0.00011
1000tx of 0.00019
1000tx of 0.00023
1000tx of 0.00024

3000 would not even reach the pool straight away due to expensive relayers dropping the tx, treating it as third class citizens

it would look something like this:
block 450,000 - 1000tx (average already at 0.00024) <-the relay network only lets the 1000tx at 0.00024 to reach a pool
block 450,001 - 1000tx (average decreases to 0.00022667) <-the relay network only lets the 1000tx at 0.00023to reach a pool
block 450,002 - 0tx (average decreases to 0.00020148) <-the relay network hasnt let any tx to reach a pool
block 450,003 - 1000tx (average decreases to 0.00018889) <-the relay network only lets the 1000tx at 0.00019 to reach a pool
block 450,004 - 0tx (average decreases to 0.00016371) <-the relay network hasnt let any tx to reach a pool
block 450,005 - 0tx (average decreases to 0.00015111) <-the relay network hasnt let any tx to reach a pool
block 450,006 - 0tx (average decreases to 0.00013852) <-the relay network hasnt let any tx to reach a pool
block 450,007 - 0tx (average decreases to 0.00012593) <-the relay network hasnt let any tx to reach a pool
block 450,008 - 0tx (average decreases to 0.00013333) <-the relay network hasnt let any tx to reach a pool
block 450,009 - 0tx (average decreases to 0.00011334) <-the relay network hasnt let any tx to reach a pool
block 450,010 - 1000tx (average increases to 0.00010074) <-the relay network only lets the 1000tx at 0.00011 to reach a pool

but sticking with the "average" scenario.
ofcourse human emotion would see the 450,002 was empty so the 2000tx that got rejected for the 3rd time. would up their price to get into 450,003
block 450,003 - 2000tx (average decreases to 0.00018889) <-the relay network lets the 2000, >0.00019 tx to reach a pool
and bring the average over 0.00019000

however if pools were instantly reactive to demand. and the relay network was instantly reactive. instead of the stupid concept of averages.
in this low demand scenario all transactions would have been included in 2 blocks..
eg
block 450,000 - 2500tx - includes 1000 at 0.00024, includes 1000 at 0.00023, includes 500 at 0.00019,
block 450,001 - 1500tx - includes 500 at 0.00019, includes 1000 at 0.00011,

not 11 blocks with 7 blocks being empty if just left to wait for averages to drop, or 4 blocks if getting peed off to pay more due to emotional rejection and seeing an empty block

And it is what i was waiting for! Thank you franky1 !
I have to go sleep now because im tired a bit, but tomorrow i will read your text two times!
Thank you for your all effort!

geez its too complicated for me too understand and i am really confusing with this but its so completed for us to know about the fee. and you need two times, maybe i will need more than two times to understand this. but thank you franky1.

[gufpmvgw3334]

I began to wonder what will happen with the amount of transaction fee in the future..

I mean, that transaction fee continues to grow, increasing also Bitcoin price.

Now optimal fee is ~19k satoshi, but what gonna happen in few years? How high can be transaction fee when Bitcoin price will be let say $10k?   

Is it possible that transaction fee in future will be for example $10 ? 

Yes,this may be happen when the price reach a high value for example 10000$!

[arcanaaerobics]

I believe it would be fair for users and miners.

And if every world start to use the coin, for sure we will make changes in the code to find a solution to keep the low fair for all.

[deisik]

Transactions can be relayed if they fits under the free transaction policy. However, the transactions have a very low chance of getting confirmed over the next few blocks. The problem with this is that miners are choosing to accept the transactions with fees first and blocks are mostly filled with them. I sent a transaction without fee and it took weeks to confirm.

I once tried to withdraw 1 bitcoin from Bitfinex (August, 2015) seeking to catch an arbitrage opportunity, but the transaction didn't get confirmed for two days. It had too many inputs and the fee seemed to be too low for its size as I was told later. I saw quite a few empty blocks with only a block generating transaction in them, and it looked like miners deliberately refused to include my transaction in the blocks. It was really frustrating to watch all these empty blocks appearing on the blockchain...

Though I got better exchange rate in the end since the price had changed more in my favor during those two days of waiting

geez its too complicated for me too understand and i am really confusing with this but its so completed for us to know about the fee. and you need two times, maybe i will need more than two times to understand this. but thank you franky1.

If you see a lot of words, don't expect many of them to make any sense

[katrimans]

I began to wonder what will happen with the amount of transaction fee in the future..

I mean, that transaction fee continues to grow, increasing also Bitcoin price.

Now optimal fee is ~19k satoshi, but what gonna happen in few years? How high can be transaction fee when Bitcoin price will be let say $10k?  

Is it possible that transaction fee in future will be for example $10 ?  

Transaction fees has become a serious issue and for this same reason people are using wallets like xapo or directbet casino wallet because they don't charge fees. Actually this was a major reason why sites those chain based games were closed since people can not bear so much fees. Maybe that's why luckyb.it is getting less popular .. ?

[buwaytress]

keyscore indeed, the vast majority of users are still people who own less than 1 bitcoin like myself so even a transaction fee of 20k satoshi feels like a hit to me. The fact is, more and more users are choosing a wallet based on network fee rather than security or ease of use.

Imagine that web based or micro wallets are now the choice as you mentioned.

[TastyChillySauce00]

Transaction fees has become a serious issue and for this same reason people are using wallets like xapo or directbet casino wallet because they don't charge fees. Actually this was a major reason why sites those chain based games were closed since people can not bear so much fees

yeah that's the hassle of using chain based games,can't store the bitcoin on the account's balance therefore paying fees for every transaction,it's not going to be a problem when the value of bitcoin is just about $500 but now it's about $700 and maybe will be going to the moon
even though if we're using it for only usual transaction the fees still can be considered as normal

[ranochigo]

Transactions can be relayed if they fits under the free transaction policy. However, the transactions have a very low chance of getting confirmed over the next few blocks. The problem with this is that miners are choosing to accept the transactions with fees first and blocks are mostly filled with them. I sent a transaction without fee and it took weeks to confirm.

I once tried to withdraw 1 bitcoin from Bitfinex (August, 2015) seeking to catch an arbitrage opportunity, but the transaction didn't get confirmed for two days. It had too many inputs and the fee seemed to be too low for its size as I was told later. I saw quite a few empty blocks with only a block generating transaction in them, and it looked like miners deliberately refused to include my transaction in the blocks. It was really frustrating to watch all these empty blocks appearing on the blockchain...

Though I got better exchange rate in the end since the price had changed more in my favor during those two days of waiting

Possible. However, there are other possibilities. For example, the reference node has a policy of only relaying blocks that has at least 0.0001BTC/kb of fees in the past (currently 0.00005BTC/kb, adjustable) if it does not fit under the free transaction policy. If that transaction is below that fee, miners will not be able to see it and thus they won't be able to mine it.

[ipanks]

I believe it would be fair for users and miners.

And if every world start to use the coin, for sure we will make changes in the code to find a solution to keep the low fair for all.

i am sure that the transaction fee will be increase too since there are more people start to use bitcoin and the transaction itself is increase in total number in a day. and i think its fine when we see in someday the transaction fee is not the same as before.

[iqlimasyadiqa]

I began to wonder what will happen with the amount of transaction fee in the future..

I mean, that transaction fee continues to grow, increasing also Bitcoin price.

Now optimal fee is ~19k satoshi, but what gonna happen in few years? How high can be transaction fee when Bitcoin price will be let say $10k?   

Is it possible that transaction fee in future will be for example $10 ? 

I think it will not happen. because basically the greater the number of transactions that we send, the greater the amount of the fee we have to pay. was reasonable, because it can give us a faster time in sending bitcoin to others.