Bitcoin Forum
September 26, 2018, 01:58:18 PM *
News: ♦♦ New info! Bitcoin Core users absolutely must upgrade to previously-announced 0.16.3 [Torrent]. All Bitcoin users should temporarily trust confirmations slightly less. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Invest: Let's make the next Satoshi Dice together!  (Read 1903 times)
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 07, 2013, 04:19:46 PM
 #1

Mods, can you please lock this thread. This isn't happening and it appears Max has found a buyer by conventional means. Thanks.
1537970298
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537970298

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537970298
Reply with quote  #2

1537970298
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Deprived
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


View Profile
April 07, 2013, 04:58:20 PM
 #2

A more tempting offer than most we see.  I have a few questions:

1.  Have you verified the profits are what was claimed?  It looks like it should be fairly easy to confirm.
2.  Have you taken any legal advice on whether this would face any difficulties from the gambling element of it?  My guess is that these can be avoided by careful wording of what's offered - but basing an investment on a guess is always risky.
3.  Would investors be required to acquire "real" shares in their real identities?
4.  Do you have (or anticipate) escrow arrangements to be in place to ensure that you get the site after sending the BTC for it.

Nice to see a request for investment where I could immediately understand what was offered and what the potential upside was.
bumbo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 19
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 07, 2013, 05:25:37 PM
 #3

To keep the game accessible for people who want to bet amounts less than 100 USD, the bitcoin denominated value of bets would have to be lowered with a rising BTC price, which will reduce BTC profits.

"It's currently making about 15 BTC a month"

What you are saying is that bitcoingem made 15 BTC a month with an average of 50 USD per bitcoin in march. In april the average price may very well be 200 USD per bitcoin and most people expect it to rise even higher in the long-term.

So there are two possibilities:

A. Keep the BTC denominated bets the same and potentially lose a lot of players who wouldn't want to risk 200-500 USD in a single bet; or

B. Lower the BTC denominated bets and reduce BTC profits.

What are your thoughts on this?
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 07, 2013, 05:38:45 PM
 #4

A more tempting offer than most we see.  I have a few questions:

1.  Have you verified the profits are what was claimed?  It looks like it should be fairly easy to confirm.
2.  Have you taken any legal advice on whether this would face any difficulties from the gambling element of it?  My guess is that these can be avoided by careful wording of what's offered - but basing an investment on a guess is always risky.
3.  Would investors be required to acquire "real" shares in their real identities?
4.  Do you have (or anticipate) escrow arrangements to be in place to ensure that you get the site after sending the BTC for it.

Nice to see a request for investment where I could immediately understand what was offered and what the potential upside was.

Thanks for your constructive questions, it's hard to write a really comprehensive pitch/businessplan in one iteration Smiley

1.  Have you verified the profits are what was claimed?  It looks like it should be fairly easy to confirm.
Not yet, but this step will be taken before the purchase. I won't be taking any coins until I'm happy that the purchase can go through, potential investors obviously can help with some due dilligence that I may not be aware of, but as you say, profits should be fairly easy to confirm by following the bitcoin transactions.  If the seller is running a scam and all the transactions are his we have a problem, but I am not sure if there is any way we can protect against that? I think thats highly unlikely though.
2.  Have you taken any legal advice on whether this would face any difficulties from the gambling element of it?  My guess is that these can be avoided by careful wording of what's offered - but basing an investment on a guess is always risky.
The closest questionable thing this resembles is a Matrix Scheme, matrix schemes are not illegal in the UK. Gambling is also legal in the UK but you need a license if it is for real money. HMRC has confirmed that bit coins are currently "virtual currency" just like Facebook credits, etc, which would put us in the category of a Freemium game. No legal advice has been received but some FIAT funds should be available in case we need it.  Personally, I do not think it will be necessary as it is fairly clear to me that this would be no different than a standard game by Zynga. If the UK government were to declare bit coins legal tender/currency, then we would probably have to get a license to operate but this is a risk/opportunity for the future.
3.  Would investors be required to acquire "real" shares in their real identities?
Initially I tought that this would be best, but if people feel uneasy with this then we can consider the alternative which is listing on one of the share services for bitcoin businesses. A limited company would be best to protect liability?
4.  Do you have (or anticipate) escrow arrangements to be in place to ensure that you get the site after sending the BTC for it.
I am aware of the escrow thread here on the forums, and we would use one of those reputable members to do the transaction(s).

-D
maxmint
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 07, 2013, 05:40:19 PM
 #5

I might be biased (as I'm the one selling bitcoingem.com) but I can't see any decrease in interest over the last two months.
It seems that as the BTC price is climbing people see that they can win more money (in terms of dollars) when playing the gem.

My PGP-Key: 462D02D8
Verify my messages using keybase: https://keybase.io/maxmint
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 07, 2013, 05:44:08 PM
 #6

To keep the game accessible for people who want to bet amounts less than 100 USD, the bitcoin denominated value of bets would have to be lowered with a rising BTC price, which will reduce BTC profits.

"It's currently making about 15 BTC a month"

What you are saying is that bitcoingem made 15 BTC a month with an average of 50 USD per bitcoin in march. In april the average price may very well be 200 USD per bitcoin and most people expect it to rise even higher in the long-term.

So there are two possibilities:

A. Keep the BTC denominated bets the same and potentially lose a lot of players who wouldn't want to risk 200-500 USD in a single bet; or

B. Lower the BTC denominated bets and reduce BTC profits.

What are your thoughts on this?

This is one of the things that needs to be A/B tested, anything else is a hypothesis or educated guess that we can all make and any of us could be wrong. However, I would be inclided to say that smaller bets would probably do better as it will attract more traffic to the web site so B could potentially be the winner. However, as I said, hard numbers usually prove things better.

Obviously the biggest risk for the investors is that HOLDING their BTC's would appreciate in value to 10x much quicker than a return on the site, thats a real possibility every possible investor in this should be aware of, but is also out of our control. I hope this answered your question.

-D
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 07, 2013, 05:58:34 PM
 #7

I'm not here to comment on the bitcoingem or your proposal in itself, but I would advise you as someone working in the UK not to post crowdfunding or public offerings like this.

Can you advise me via PM on why, that would be very much appreciated. Thanks

-D
stenkross
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 330
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 07, 2013, 06:44:06 PM
 #8

So, initially 1 share = 1% of the company.
After each target is hit, a public share will be worth less and less % of the company (while you get more).
A person who buys 1 share in your game, will, once you hit target 3, own about 0.43% of the company?

It should be something like this:

Initial Investmet1.00%
Target 10.71%
Target 20.50%
Target 30.43%

Did I understand it correctly?
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 07, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
 #9

So, initially 1 share = 1% of the company.
After each target is hit, a public share will be worth less and less % of the company (while you get more).
A person who buys 1 share in your game, will, once you hit target 3, own about 0.43% of the company?

It should be something like this:

Initial Investmet1.00%
Target 10.71%
Target 20.50%
Target 30.43%

Did I understand it correctly?

That's correct.

-D
superbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 762
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 07, 2013, 08:07:52 PM
 #10

Why don't you list the proposal on one of the exchanges and raise the capital?

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
kakobrekla
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714
Merit: 500


Psi laju, karavani prolaze.


View Profile
April 07, 2013, 09:14:49 PM
 #11

We are not collecting any money here, this is an idea that will strictly use Bitcoins.

So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?

MPOE-PR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 07, 2013, 09:18:24 PM
 #12

See here.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
Pharaoh
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 24
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 08, 2013, 04:02:28 AM
 #13

How will we spend the raised capital?
50BTC will be to buy the game. 55 BTC will be to exchange to FIAT currency immediately to cover for server costs, company registration, shareholder agreement draft and have some capital in case we need to buy FIAT services for the web site.

Have you even seen the code of the game? How can you ascertain that the code is worth 50BTC? Also, 55BTC seems like a lot for server costs, company registration, shareholder agreement draft and misc services for the web site. Seriously, unless you plan on subcontracting out the development of the site, 10-15BTC should be more than enough.
TradeFortress
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4589356.0
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023


View Profile
April 08, 2013, 04:42:39 AM
 #14

The code isn't worth much, it's about the site and brand.

✳️✳️Did you lose money in CoinLenders or Inputs.io? Please contact me by Dec 31st, 2018 for a reimbursement | Hashie refunds ✳️✳️
Beware of impersonators! I will ONLY ever email you from admin+g [at] glados.cc or THIS bitcointalk account.
📈Trade on BitMEX with 100x leverage. Get 10% off fees with this link!
hiima
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 08, 2013, 05:30:49 AM
 #15

I would like to get some shares of this.

Whiskey Fund BTC 1K2SG4amzNrB7gUwf5braHuExqnQ5nEKZp LTC Lgoz9gb7q39FMAmBz8odfkx4YFhLeofCpc
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 08, 2013, 06:24:57 AM
 #16

How will we spend the raised capital?
50BTC will be to buy the game. 55 BTC will be to exchange to FIAT currency immediately to cover for server costs, company registration, shareholder agreement draft and have some capital in case we need to buy FIAT services for the web site.

Have you even seen the code of the game? How can you ascertain that the code is worth 50BTC? Also, 55BTC seems like a lot for server costs, company registration, shareholder agreement draft and misc services for the web site. Seriously, unless you plan on subcontracting out the development of the site, 10-15BTC should be more than enough.

The code is definitely not worth 50BTC, its php and mysql though, something I have years of experience in. As someone else said its the brand and current traffic level that is worth the money. Regarding the extra bit coin, an emergency buffer and extra capital are always a good idea for any business plan.


kakobrekla/mpoe: What exactly is your point? That because I havent signed up for OTC yet or spent a full 6 months studying bitcoin, I am not qualified to run this? I'm a bit confused but thanks for the pointer.
Logik
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 315
Merit: 255



View Profile
April 08, 2013, 07:32:25 AM
 #17

Would you be offended if we assumed that you are incompetent or a scammer and asked for proof otherwise? It's not about you personally, but that's just what a lot of these offerings turn out to be. You need to prove that you know the Bitcoin business world well, and part of that means being happy to be treated like you're a scammer. Just roll with it. You need to prove everything you say, and if you don't prove it or it is ambiguous then we are going to assume the worst.

Now you might think "we'll that isn't fair; I'm not like those other people". And that might be true, but the point is that the correct attitude to have, in my opinion, is that even though you're not like those other people that you understand and respect the communities need to treat you that way regardless.


    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   
   ████████████████████████████████   
     ▀██████████████████████████▀     
        ▀████████████████████▀       
          ████████████████▀         
            █████████████           
            ▀████████████▀           
             ▀██████████▀             
              ██████████             
               ████████               
               ▀██████▀               
                ██████               
                 
.
trade.io.
██████
██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
██████

▄██████████████████▄
███       ▀███████
███       █████████
███       █████████
███       █████████
███              ██
███   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   ███
███   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   ███
███              ███
███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███
██████████████████▀

▄██████████████████▄
███████████▀ ███████
█████████▀   ███████
███████▀     ██▀ ███
███ ▀▀       █▄▄████
███          █▀▀▀▀██
███ ▄▄       ███████
██████▄     █▄ ▀███
█████████▄   ███▄███
███████████▄ ███████
▀██████████████████▀

▄██████████████████▄
████████████████████
███████████████▀▀ ██
█████████▀▀     ███
████▀▀     ▄█▀   ███
███▄    ▄██      ███
█████████▀      ▄██
█████████▄     ████
█████████████▄ ▄████
████████████████████
▀██████████████████▀
██████
██████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
██████
██████
.
.Join the Trading Revolution.
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 08, 2013, 08:45:56 AM
 #18

Would you be offended if we assumed that you are incompetent or a scammer and asked for proof otherwise? It's not about you personally, but that's just what a lot of these offerings turn out to be. You need to prove that you know the Bitcoin business world well, and part of that means being happy to be treated like you're a scammer. Just roll with it. You need to prove everything you say, and if you don't prove it or it is ambiguous then we are going to assume the worst.

Now you might think "we'll that isn't fair; I'm not like those other people". And that might be true, but the point is that the correct attitude to have, in my opinion, is that even though you're not like those other people that you understand and respect the communities need to treat you that way regardless.



Not offended at all, happy to prove my identity to someone thats trusted in the community somehow, after this project proves to be a go. Until no bitcoins have been collected and this is just an idea to see potential interest in the collaboration there is no need. Just to clarify, 0 bitcoins have been collected thus far.

I think my point about those threads linked above was, that there is some points such as "After completing step 1 spend at the very least six months learning *about bitcoin)" which I find just a tad overkill. Not everyone needs to spend 6 months learning something, although I did take a semester of cryptography during my bsc so maybe thats why I feel thats overkill ;-)

Anyway no point talking about scam, identity etc, just yet. This is still 50/50 on whether it will happen or not, and if it doesn't, then it was just a fun exercise in coming up with ideas, business plan, financial forecasts etc ;-)
simplydt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
April 08, 2013, 09:16:22 AM
 #19

Hi guys, this is not going to happen. Maybe another time in the future. The biggest deterrent is that UK limited companies cannot crowdfund currently and I am not too keen on running an offshore LTD as that is not where my experience lies. The tipping point came however when I got my leap motion dev kit today after a long wait (that made me forget i was gonna get one!). https://twitter.com/simplydt/status/321188201945509888/photo/1

Also, by the looks of things, BTC is going to appreciate to like a grand soon so thats probably a quicker ROI for everyone right now anyway ;-) Crazy increase from sunday to monday.

Take care and thanks to everyone for their advice/information while this thread lasted. I've learned a couple of things I didn't know and that's awesome.

-D
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!