[CALLING Current Coin Makers] How was Casascius able to make his coins so cheap?

[monbux]

If you take a look at his original post, he sold the 1 BTC coins for 1.25 BTC, and that extra 0.25 BTC was about $2 at time of posting... How was he able to create and sell the coins so cheap?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41892.0

[1714906950]

1714906950

[Zepher]

If you take a look at his original post, he sold the 1 BTC coins for 1.25 BTC, and that extra 0.25 BTC was about $2 at time of posting... How was he able to create and sell the coins so cheap?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41892.0

If they are the brass ones, IIRC they were made at the same place that car wash token were made... brass token coins are not expensive to produce, especially in the large amounts that were made by him.

That really is the craziest thing.. the brass ones were indeed made by a car wash token manufacturer - hence them being so cheap to produce and sell. The security of these coins is down to the holograms, as I would imagine the brass tokens would be pretty easy to replicate.

The silver coins were produced by a mint (don't know which one) and were therefore of a much better quality. Again, the security of Casascius coins is the holograms. If those were easy to counterfeit, then I imagine we would have seen some a decent amount of fakes by now. There have been instances of fake holograms, but to the trained eye, they were easy to tell apart from genuine ones. Any Casascius collector would be able to tell the difference. The manufacturer of Casascius holograms is unknown (to me anyway), and I hope it stays that way actually.

[monbux]

If you take a look at his original post, he sold the 1 BTC coins for 1.25 BTC, and that extra 0.25 BTC was about $2 at time of posting... How was he able to create and sell the coins so cheap?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41892.0

If they are the brass ones, IIRC they were made at the same place that car wash token were made... brass token coins are not expensive to produce, especially in the large amounts that were made by him.

That really is the craziest thing.. the brass ones were indeed made by a car wash token manufacturer - hence them being so cheap to produce and sell. The security of these coins is down to the holograms, as I would imagine the brass tokens would be pretty easy to replicate.

The silver coins were produced by a mint (don't know which one) and were therefore of a much better quality. Again, the security of Casascius coins is the holograms. If those were easy to counterfeit, then I imagine we would have seen some a decent amount of fakes by now. There have been instances of fake holograms, but to the trained eye, they were easy to tell apart from genuine ones. Any Casascius collector would be able to tell the difference. The manufacturer of Casascius holograms is unknown (to me anyway), and I hope it stays that way actually.

That's crazy!  And yet, they are such valuable coins today.  Does anyone know how much casascius originally sold the coins produced by a mint for? 
It's just that the premiums coins sell for nowadays cost so much more than what Mike was selling them for.

[wheelz1200]

Hmmmm what if the casascius hologram maker kept the dies.......most of them do for reorders.  Has mike mentioned anything about this?

[OgNasty]

Personally, I take possession of my dies after coins are produced.  While I can't speak for Mike, given his stance on security, I would imagine he also took possession of his dies.

As for how he was able to sell them so cheap...  The brass is only worth about $0.05, I imagine it probably cost $1 per unit for the minting fee, and at $2 he could have been doubling his money (see my below post w/ link showing that his total cost could have actually been lower than $0.50 each).  The question you should be asking, is how are current coin producers able to get away with copying Casascius' idea and then charging a $75-$500 markup for what is essentially a knock off.

[monbux]

Personally, I take possession of my dies after coins are produced.  While I can't speak for Mike, given his stance on security, I would imagine he also took possession of his dies.

As for how he was able to sell them so cheap...  The brass is only worth about $0.05, I imagine it probably cost $1 per unit for the minting fee, and at $2 he could have been doubling his money.  The question you should be asking, is how are current coin producers able to get away with copying Casascius' idea and then charging a $75-$500 markup for what is essentially a knock off.

To be honest that was the point I was getting at.  Any idea, anyone?

[owlcatz]

Great points. Maybe some current physical coin producers can chime in? thanks!  

[ranlo]

On this topic, wondering who has the best prices for custom gold and silver rounds with holograms? Would love to price some out for promos.

[wheelz1200]

On this topic, wondering who has the best prices for custom gold and silver rounds with holograms? Would love to price some out for promos.

Golds are tough but silver....silver wallets are always a good choice and also i believe f*d has some silvers for a nice price.  I also think og has some nice silvers at a cheap price but without holos.

[ranlo]

On this topic, wondering who has the best prices for custom gold and silver rounds with holograms? Would love to price some out for promos.

Golds are tough but silver....silver wallets are always a good choice and also i believe f*d has some silvers for a nice price.  I also think og has some nice silvers at a cheap price but without holos.

Looking for custom, though, as opposed to those they already made. The thought is to get some made for promoting a couple sites, with unique rounds that can't be bought, only won, .

[miffman]

They were cheap for the above reasons (cheap metal and made as a car wash token) but also because so many were produced. I'm not sure of the mintage of each year respectively, but there are about 20000 brass 1BTC coins in total. Correct me on the estimate. I imagine he actually purchased more though.

[OgNasty]

They were cheap for the above reasons (cheap metal and made as a car wash token) but also because so many were produced. I'm not sure of the mintage of each year respectively, but there are about 20000 brass 1BTC coins in total. Correct me on the estimate. I imagine he actually purchased more though.

If the car wash token story is legit (I had no idea) then this might be relevant.

tokensdirectstore.com/.....

Those original coins could have been made for close to $0.25 each...

[AT101ET]

I think it's quite simple really. Mike started Casascius as a means of showing that BTC wasn't limited to something digital but was something you could also put in your pocket and hold (correct me if I'm wrong).
Today's coin producers have nothing to prove and most of them are in it purely for the business aspect of it, hence the high markups.
I just think that Mike wasn't looking to make a lot of money on it. It was his personal project for something he genuinely believed in.

Just my 2 satoshis...

[bitkilo]

Personally, I take possession of my dies after coins are produced.  While I can't speak for Mike, given his stance on security, I would imagine he also took possession of his dies.

As for how he was able to sell them so cheap...  The brass is only worth about $0.05, I imagine it probably cost $1 per unit for the minting fee, and at $2 he could have been doubling his money.  The question you should be asking, is how are current coin producers able to get away with copying Casascius' idea and then charging a $75-$500 markup for what is essentially a knock off.

To be honest that was the point I was getting at.  Any idea, anyone?

And i thought the idea for the thread was that you may be looking to produce your own coins soon 

[digicoinuser]

If the car wash token story is legit (I had no idea) then this might be relevant.

tokensdirectstore.com/.....

Those original coins could have been made for close to $0.25 each...

That's really cheap and looks pretty neat, are car wash tokens still used at car washes?

Mike did something special with these coins and I always look forward to future innovations by any user.  

[SaltySpitoon]

People are weird. I've been a numismatist in non Bitcoin collectibles for a while now, and the premiums associated with Bitcoin collectibles is unheard of. The most valuable silver coin I've ever gotten a hold of was one of seven that existed, it was produced by a government mint in a pretty collectible series, graded MS70, and it sold for ~$300 over spot. Tuvalu isn't a super well known mint, but I'd conservatively estimate there are at least 100,000 people that collect their coins world wide.There are ancient roman/greek silver coins graded and with historical significance that sell for less than that of what mint produced silver blank pressed physical BTC are selling for.

The free market is what it is, obviously a business is going to charge the most it can while maintaining its customers patronage, but if you try to explain the Bitcoin collectibles market to someone who deals in rare coins, they will just look at you dumbstruck when you start talking about the prices. I've seen the same baffled look three or four times now.

Just FYI, you can contact Sunshine Mint, OPM, or any number of generic bullion mints and get a quote for a run of custom coins. Depending on the complexity of the coin and the min order size, you could probably pay as little as $2 over spot / oz + $200-300 for the dies.

[Hox]

the premiums associated with Bitcoin collectibles is unheard of.

I think a lot of this is to do with the wealth effect. I also think physical bitcoin collectors generally think 1BTC = 1BTC regardless of the current USD value. So the premiums in USD are much higher today but in terms of BTC they're pretty much the same (BTCC 1BTC has a .15BTC premium for example)

I think the premiums measured in USD are going to get even crazier if BTC goes to the moon.

[miffman]

the premiums associated with Bitcoin collectibles is unheard of.

I also think physical bitcoin collectors generally think 1BTC = 1BTC regardless of the current USD value.

This applies to me. I don't consider the USD value of premium on a coin too much when buying physical btc. I buy in BTC with hopes to get it sold for BTC, and never fiat. Of, course it helps to look at the USD price to follow up on how other people will buy or sell.

[Xboxthreefixme]

1BTC = 1BTC 

[Lauda]

Today's coin producers have nothing to prove and most of them are in it purely for the business aspect of it, hence the high markups.

That's what happens in a free market when you have people fueled by greed. Absurd markups. There are very few creators/series that do not do this.
Don't even try to tell me that slapping a stupid sticker (that you bought on ebay for <20$) on a coin magically makes it worth 3x the spot price (or worse). Numbers in the previous sentence are obvious arbitrary.