You should never trust banks

[Ronaldcoin2017]

That's strange closing an account without any further information or reason why have they done that although i agree with you to not trust banks and i have never put money into any banks. You might have violated some of their rules and regulations or they've terminated your account because their in the verge of being bankrupt so they've steal people's money and told it's members that is terminated the reason maybe cause by the recent data breach that stole millions of cash from banks. That is why i dont trust my money to any of this banks that's centralized and many hidden fees that will losr your money.

yes i strongly agree on you.bank is operated by the person like us and as what we all have   known everybody has a differrent kinds of problem in life most of the problem is the problem about money ir financial problem.
If they do sindicate thier own bank for thier needs they can verry simple do that in time.because they can hack it anytime.that is why we dont trust anybody.just trust in your self.

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[Schuyler]

Love them or hate them, still, banks will always be there. They are the foundation of any financial institutions. I'm not saying that I'm pro or anti banks. It's just that we just need to learn and accept that banks will stand the test of time and not everybody are financial literate like us. Some people in this world are very conservative and their only outlet when it comes to handling their finances are banks. So we are very lucky that we have wider perspective and wider knowledge when it comes to our finances especially in investing - and hence, the power of bitcoin.

It can be hard to trust banks nowadays because even some bank officers are committing crimes by making deposits and loans on behalf of their clients. A recent news in the Philippines stated that a high ranking bank officer committed fraud and tried to heist a huge amount of money. To think that trust and security are why we do business with banks, then news like this comes out.

[Maslate]

That's strange closing an account without any further information or reason why have they done that although i agree with you to not trust banks and i have never put money into any banks. You might have violated some of their rules and regulations or they've terminated your account because their in the verge of being bankrupt so they've steal people's money and told it's members that is terminated the reason maybe cause by the recent data breach that stole millions of cash from banks. That is why i dont trust my money to any of this banks that's centralized and many hidden fees that will losr your money.

yes i strongly agree on you.bank is operated by the person like us and as what we all have   known everybody has a differrent kinds of problem in life most of the problem is the problem about money ir financial problem.
If they do sindicate thier own bank for thier needs they can verry simple do that in time.because they can hack it anytime.that is why we dont trust anybody.just trust in your self.

That's how bank manipulate that's why for me it's not good to invest in bank, what my relationship with bank is
I am only a depositor and I am confident that my money is safe as it's covered with insurance.

[deppil]

I hate bank ever since, It is because banks are so ridiculous. And for the sake of other's belief and idea about it,
all bank are involved in regulated industry or centralized system while was vice-versa of all banks.

They can control your money and they can freeze your account if you do not obey the rules, they also give the rules of money withdrawal every day, you can not withdraw all your money on the same day it is a system from bank, very different from bitcoin, that's why I Not saving a lot of money in the bank

[el kaka22]

Love them or hate them, still, banks will always be there. They are the foundation of any financial institutions. I'm not saying that I'm pro or anti banks. It's just that we just need to learn and accept that banks will stand the test of time and not everybody are financial literate like us. Some people in this world are very conservative and their only outlet when it comes to handling their finances are banks. So we are very lucky that we have wider perspective and wider knowledge when it comes to our finances especially in investing - and hence, the power of bitcoin.

Nobody refuse that the banks will remain exist and never be closed in future but it is also reality that if bitcoin introduced and recognized across the world legally and it may announced formally being a currency by any country so no doubt that educated people in that time who would know computer and internet will close their business with banks and banks will effected badly. I think no one can deny bitcoin as a future currency.

[hosseinimr93]

Love them or hate them, still, banks will always be there. They are the foundation of any financial institutions. I'm not saying that I'm pro or anti banks. It's just that we just need to learn and accept that banks will stand the test of time and not everybody are financial literate like us. Some people in this world are very conservative and their only outlet when it comes to handling their finances are banks. So we are very lucky that we have wider perspective and wider knowledge when it comes to our finances especially in investing - and hence, the power of bitcoin.

Nobody refuse that the banks will remain exist and never be closed in future but it is also reality that if bitcoin introduced and recognized across the world legally and it may announced formally being a currency by any country so no doubt that educated people in that time who would know computer and internet will close their business with banks and banks will effected badly. I think no one can deny bitcoin as a future currency.

Yes. Bitcoin can be the future currency and can replace traditional money . But I think There are two main condition that must be met. 1. Government have more control on bitcoin. Otherwise they will not let this happen. 2. Bitcoin value must be controlled and these fluctuations in price must be eliminated.
I think in this way Bitcoin may will replace traditional money in future.

[jaysabi]

I guess you should rather try to defend your point

Instead of claiming that I don't understand (or misunderstand) something and should ask for help. You basically claim that Bitcoin has value because there is a working banking system (wtf, I seem to have repeated you words one by one). As to me, this is the point you should specifically address first (before asking me to go for help or elsewhere), namely, how can Bitcoin get its value from an existing banking system if Bitcoin itself is a banking system in its own right? In other words, it can exist even if the fiat banking system dies one day, and this is exactly what happened at Bitfinex. Anyway, this exchange is the largest Bitcoin exchange out there so you can't possibly discard it as a "small data point" (in short, the gods are closer to you than you think). If it really were so (as you speculate), we wouldn't see the Bitcoin price rising half a thousand dollars in a matter of two weeks (and then consolidating there). This you can't discard either and have to address as well. To sum it up, you can't discard reality for your wild fantasies

You didn't address anything of substance. You simply continued on without addressing the fact that you are claiming that trouble at bitfinex should tank bitcoin under my theory, which flat out isn't close to what I wrote. I said specifically, "when the next international financial crisis happens, people will flee bitcoin for safer assets, and the price will crash hard." You responded with 'but bitfiniex and price appreciation.'  So would you like to continue propagating the delusion that bitfinex constitutes a global financial crisis so you can try to conclude me theory to be inaccurate, or would you like to let a little more reality color your views?

It is not me who should address anything (in the first place)

It is you who said that "Bitcoin has value because there is already a robust international banking system" (as can be seen above). This is what I disagree with and which I made clear in my reply. Now you flip-flop and start claiming that "when the next international financial crisis happens..." and so on. I don't think you can jump from your first claim to the other as easily as you do (since this is not what my point is about). For example, it is like claiming that stocks derive their value from fiat (while it should be clear that their value comes from the success of the companies behind these stocks) and then proceeding to claim that when a crisis happens, the stocks will plummet. They will certainly do (and Bitcoin will likely crash too), but this, first, doesn't in the least prove that their value all of a sudden depends on "a robust international banking system" (at least, not in any meaningful degree). Second, fiat itself will likely get heavily wasted in such circumstances (in terms of its purchasing power) with the "international banking system" disintegrating (in the extreme case). And, finally, this is not what I challenge. Anyway, stocks had existed long before there was any international banking system (or just banking system, for that matter), so there is no reason to claim that "Bitcoin has value because there is already a robust international banking system". This is what you should prove, not that Bitcoin will crash in case of an economic meltdown. Hope this helps

As far as stocks go, since the market is a forward looking construct, stocks trade on anticipated future earnings. When a financial crisis hits and those future earnings are in doubt, stocks trade down towards their actual worth, and many times below book value. This is entirely different from bitcoin, the value of which is entirely made up of economic excess because there is no inherent value in bitcoin. The inherent value of the stock is the liquidation value. Trading above the liquidation value is speculative, which is why that excess disappears in a financial crisis. Bitcoin is entirely speculative. In a global financial crisis, the only people holding bitcoin will be those who can still afford to speculate, and stocks will trade near book/liquidation value, also with any excess by those who can still afford to speuclate on the recovery.

And how does that support you claim?

I don't get it, really. You basically say (in your previous posts) that a robust international banking system gives value to Bitcoin and stocks. I cannot possibly agree with this claim. As to me, it pretty much sounds like claiming that stocks and Bitcoin have value because an asteroid doesn't hit the Earth since otherwise (if it hit the Earth) the stocks (as well as Bitcoin) wouldn't have any value. Indeed, they would be quite worthless in that very case, but it doesn't in the least mean that asteroids give value to these assets

That whole paragraph is the support of the claim. To try and re-word it: a robust international banking system has created the wealth of our current globalized economy. The wealth and stability of our economy gives people the economic freedom and confidence to chase speculative investments (because they're not worried they need all their resources just to survive and can risk those assets to attempt to acquire more assets). If you withdraw economic confidence (such as in a massive recession/depression), all the speculative assets would decrease in value as people rush to protect their wealth against the backdrop of economic uncertainty. When the future is in doubt, there's outsized risk in speculation, so the only people speculating on risky assets are people who are not in financial jeopardy and can afford it. This contrasts to the current economic and market conditions where there are a lot of people who can afford to speculate.

As for your asteroid scenario, which takes the above to the extreme, you've basically got it except for the conclusion.  In this scenario, the future isn't just in doubt, its end is certain. So it's the lack of a society-ending asteroid (or any other doomsday scenario) that gives future-looking assets (stocks, speculative assets, real estate, just about everything and probably including all currencies of every kind) value. If we knew that an asteroid was going to strike the Earth in 7 days and it would wipe out civilization, everything would immediately be worthless. In that scenario, the asteroid doesn't give assets value; the lack of the asteroid does. It's because we're certain that there will be a future that anything has any value, because value is very future-dependent.

[deisik]

I guess you should rather try to defend your point

Instead of claiming that I don't understand (or misunderstand) something and should ask for help. You basically claim that Bitcoin has value because there is a working banking system (wtf, I seem to have repeated you words one by one). As to me, this is the point you should specifically address first (before asking me to go for help or elsewhere), namely, how can Bitcoin get its value from an existing banking system if Bitcoin itself is a banking system in its own right? In other words, it can exist even if the fiat banking system dies one day, and this is exactly what happened at Bitfinex. Anyway, this exchange is the largest Bitcoin exchange out there so you can't possibly discard it as a "small data point" (in short, the gods are closer to you than you think). If it really were so (as you speculate), we wouldn't see the Bitcoin price rising half a thousand dollars in a matter of two weeks (and then consolidating there). This you can't discard either and have to address as well. To sum it up, you can't discard reality for your wild fantasies

You didn't address anything of substance. You simply continued on without addressing the fact that you are claiming that trouble at bitfinex should tank bitcoin under my theory, which flat out isn't close to what I wrote. I said specifically, "when the next international financial crisis happens, people will flee bitcoin for safer assets, and the price will crash hard." You responded with 'but bitfiniex and price appreciation.'  So would you like to continue propagating the delusion that bitfinex constitutes a global financial crisis so you can try to conclude me theory to be inaccurate, or would you like to let a little more reality color your views?

It is not me who should address anything (in the first place)

It is you who said that "Bitcoin has value because there is already a robust international banking system" (as can be seen above). This is what I disagree with and which I made clear in my reply. Now you flip-flop and start claiming that "when the next international financial crisis happens..." and so on. I don't think you can jump from your first claim to the other as easily as you do (since this is not what my point is about). For example, it is like claiming that stocks derive their value from fiat (while it should be clear that their value comes from the success of the companies behind these stocks) and then proceeding to claim that when a crisis happens, the stocks will plummet. They will certainly do (and Bitcoin will likely crash too), but this, first, doesn't in the least prove that their value all of a sudden depends on "a robust international banking system" (at least, not in any meaningful degree). Second, fiat itself will likely get heavily wasted in such circumstances (in terms of its purchasing power) with the "international banking system" disintegrating (in the extreme case). And, finally, this is not what I challenge. Anyway, stocks had existed long before there was any international banking system (or just banking system, for that matter), so there is no reason to claim that "Bitcoin has value because there is already a robust international banking system". This is what you should prove, not that Bitcoin will crash in case of an economic meltdown. Hope this helps

As far as stocks go, since the market is a forward looking construct, stocks trade on anticipated future earnings. When a financial crisis hits and those future earnings are in doubt, stocks trade down towards their actual worth, and many times below book value. This is entirely different from bitcoin, the value of which is entirely made up of economic excess because there is no inherent value in bitcoin. The inherent value of the stock is the liquidation value. Trading above the liquidation value is speculative, which is why that excess disappears in a financial crisis. Bitcoin is entirely speculative. In a global financial crisis, the only people holding bitcoin will be those who can still afford to speculate, and stocks will trade near book/liquidation value, also with any excess by those who can still afford to speuclate on the recovery.

And how does that support you claim?

I don't get it, really. You basically say (in your previous posts) that a robust international banking system gives value to Bitcoin and stocks. I cannot possibly agree with this claim. As to me, it pretty much sounds like claiming that stocks and Bitcoin have value because an asteroid doesn't hit the Earth since otherwise (if it hit the Earth) the stocks (as well as Bitcoin) wouldn't have any value. Indeed, they would be quite worthless in that very case, but it doesn't in the least mean that asteroids give value to these assets

That whole paragraph is the support of the claim. To try and re-word it: a robust international banking system has created the wealth of our current globalized economy. The wealth and stability of our economy gives people the economic freedom and confidence to chase speculative investments (because they're not worried they need all their resources just to survive and can risk those assets to attempt to acquire more assets). If you withdraw economic confidence (such as in a massive recession/depression), all the speculative assets would decrease in value as people rush to protect their wealth against the backdrop of economic uncertainty. When the future is in doubt, there's outsized risk in speculation, so the only people speculating on risky assets are people who are not in financial jeopardy and can afford it. This contrasts to the current economic and market conditions where there are a lot of people who can afford to speculate

How can that possibly be?

Note that I basically agree that a robust international banking system contributes greatly to the creation of wealth but to say that it is directly creating wealth is along the same lines as pretending that money itself creates wealth or is the wealth in its own right. In other words, if you had all the required facilities for the banking system to operate but without the actual factories, plants, and people working there, this system itself would never create a penny of wealth on its own. Without actual production it would be utterly useless and wasteful

In that scenario, the asteroid doesn't give assets value; the lack of the asteroid does. It's because we're certain that there will be a future that anything has any value, because value is very future-dependent.

But that's outright bullshit. It is like claiming that everything derives its value from the lack of something that would destroy this value. This is tautology at best and casuistry at worst

[jak3]

IN the ancient age when the banking system was first started it has faced so many failures and bankruptcy and eventually they become much stronger and for a very long time, they grew so big that there is no opponents compare to them. but now the time has changed finally and it has a worthy opponent. bitcoin has all the necessary features which banks can not or do not provides us. like the higher profit and higher production. let's see how long can this journey goes I am supporting bitcoin.

[Theb]

IN the ancient age when the banking system was first started it has faced so many failures and bankruptcy and eventually they become much stronger and for a very long time, they grew so big that there is no opponents compare to them. but now the time has changed finally and it has a worthy opponent. bitcoin has all the necessary features which banks can not or do not provides us. like the higher profit and higher production. let's see how long can this journey goes I am supporting bitcoin.

Banks before were more than fair they actually have schemes like "double your money in 1 year" which are really paying and also have higher interest yield, what they were actually doing is harboring enough cash to make them richer and have more liquid asset than before. In short we are the ones who fueled their business into becoming an empire. Right now I kind of agree with you that Banks are no longer counted as a form of investment compared to before. Banks are now taking advantage of your money and they are making more from it.

[Viscore]

IN the ancient age when the banking system was first started it has faced so many failures and bankruptcy and eventually they become much stronger and for a very long time, they grew so big that there is no opponents compare to them. but now the time has changed finally and it has a worthy opponent. bitcoin has all the necessary features which banks can not or do not provides us. like the higher profit and higher production. let's see how long can this journey goes I am supporting bitcoin.

Banks before were more than fair they actually have schemes like "double your money in 1 year" which are really paying and also have higher interest yield, what they were actually doing is harboring enough cash to make them richer and have more liquid asset than before. In short we are the ones who fueled their business into becoming an empire. Right now I kind of agree with you that Banks are no longer counted as a form of investment compared to before. Banks are now taking advantage of your money and they are making more from it.

I have not seen or heard a bank offers that kind of return in my entire life, that is not allowed in our country because it might
tag as a scam and since bank is regulated by the government, they might likely be penalized if they do that.

[yndye]

Recently, many banks are having some problems like unexplained reduction of the balances of the customers accounts, ATM card skimming and much worse is that the people working in banks have access to the accounts and can do whatever they want to the accounts so those who have bad intention can easily do it. Our money is not secured in banks anymore. Good thing there is bitcoin when you have control of your money and the start of blockchain technology can prevent this things happening if its totally implemented.

[Gaff]

IN the ancient age when the banking system was first started it has faced so many failures and bankruptcy and eventually they become much stronger and for a very long time, they grew so big that there is no opponents compare to them. but now the time has changed finally and it has a worthy opponent. bitcoin has all the necessary features which banks can not or do not provides us. like the higher profit and higher production. let's see how long can this journey goes I am supporting bitcoin.

Banks before were more than fair they actually have schemes like "double your money in 1 year" which are really paying and also have higher interest yield, what they were actually doing is harboring enough cash to make them richer and have more liquid asset than before. In short we are the ones who fueled their business into becoming an empire. Right now I kind of agree with you that Banks are no longer counted as a form of investment compared to before. Banks are now taking advantage of your money and they are making more from it.

Not really never but banks has also proven few things already in our society or in economy. Maybe for saving account bank is better but when it comes to interest now more or less its interest is 0.1% not so sure about this though. Yes I can see that bank becomes richer because or our monthly deposits and our maintaining balance is their one way of getting profit. For instance, one of the famous banks of my country has 5,000 maintaining balance so that the money I save won't be neglected and it is secured some ways but unfortunately it is not always the same because no matter how secured there are many probable cases that it won't be so the trust that you have given to the bank is now disappearing and difficult to trust again. That all depends if something happened which you won't like but not all banks are not worth to be trusted.

[Baofeng]

Recently, many banks are having some problems like unexplained reduction of the balances of the customers accounts, ATM card skimming and much worse is that the people working in banks have access to the accounts and can do whatever they want to the accounts so those who have bad intention can easily do it. Our money is not secured in banks anymore. Good thing there is bitcoin when you have control of your money and the start of blockchain technology can prevent this things happening if its totally implemented.

Globally, this has been the issue of most banks. Hackers (sounds familiar isn't it) skimming and other schemes that fall to the category of like bank is stealing money from us. I still have funds in a bank and do regularly used it specially that my day job pays thru ATM's which is very convenient for most of us. But I do believed that most of the banks are really taking advantage of people like high interest rates, not giving enough time to people to pay loans and harassment if you haven't done your payment. But as financial institution, banks will remain here whether we like it or not.

[goldcoinminer]

Recently, many banks are having some problems like unexplained reduction of the balances of the customers accounts, ATM card skimming and much worse is that the people working in banks have access to the accounts and can do whatever they want to the accounts so those who have bad intention can easily do it. Our money is not secured in banks anymore. Good thing there is bitcoin when you have control of your money and the start of blockchain technology can prevent this things happening if its totally implemented.

Globally, this has been the issue of most banks. Hackers (sounds familiar isn't it) skimming and other schemes that fall to the category of like bank is stealing money from us. I still have funds in a bank and do regularly used it specially that my day job pays thru ATM's which is very convenient for most of us. But I do believed that most of the banks are really taking advantage of people like high interest rates, not giving enough time to people to pay loans and harassment if you haven't done your payment. But as financial institution, banks will remain here whether we like it or not.

That does not happen in our country, banks are more regulated than other lending business where they can easily harass those
who do not pay on time. Banks are following a uniform rules issued by the central bank and if they violate it they will be penalize.

[kuryadi]

Is it possible if the bank closes someone's account for no reason ?? Whether it's happening to you or to all bank customers ... if it happens to you .. maybe your account made a mistake or broke the terms of the bank. Usually the bank will give a warning to you before closing your account. But if the bank closes all bank customers .. it needs serious action .. banks should be responsible for the incident.

[Cocobrayy]

I hate banks because they take advantage or interest is very large, easy if apply for loan can be directly liquid or we buy goods through credit to the bank very easily, but they take 2x profit. How not pity the person who is entangled with the bank

[GoodLuck2]

IN the ancient age when the banking system was first started it has faced so many failures and bankruptcy and eventually they become much stronger and for a very long time, they grew so big that there is no opponents compare to them. but now the time has changed finally and it has a worthy opponent. bitcoin has all the necessary features which banks can not or do not provides us. like the higher profit and higher production. let's see how long can this journey goes I am supporting bitcoin.

Banks before were more than fair they actually have schemes like "double your money in 1 year" which are really paying and also have higher interest yield, what they were actually doing is harboring enough cash to make them richer and have more liquid asset than before. In short we are the ones who fueled their business into becoming an empire. Right now I kind of agree with you that Banks are no longer counted as a form of investment compared to before. Banks are now taking advantage of your money and they are making more from it.

Not really never but banks has also proven few things already in our society or in economy. Maybe for saving account bank is better but when it comes to interest now more or less its interest is 0.1% not so sure about this though. Yes I can see that bank becomes richer because or our monthly deposits and our maintaining balance is their one way of getting profit. For instance, one of the famous banks of my country has 5,000 maintaining balance so that the money I save won't be neglected and it is secured some ways but unfortunately it is not always the same because no matter how secured there are many probable cases that it won't be so the trust that you have given to the bank is now disappearing and difficult to trust again. That all depends if something happened which you won't like but not all banks are not worth to be trusted.

If we should not compare that cheap banks with bitcoin so it will be better in which manner we can consider bank with bitcoin? Bank is giving you a lot of hard time while bitcoin is giving you very good time bank is giving you loans to take double while you can earn bitcoin for free if you are not having bitcoin so i would say we should stay away from these types of situation.

[Hotel_Prodeo]

I still trust with the bank, all the financial statements are very transparent and the bank is fully supported by the state so I keep the bank as the main priority keep my money.

[reda]

I still trust with the bank, all the financial statements are very transparent and the bank is fully supported by the state so I keep the bank as the main priority keep my money.

ya correct but you will move wrong steps he will use to A/C fine and it will give profect detail. So don't do any wrong move ment for the bank pross. bank waiting for you wrong move ment