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Author Topic: BITCOIN IS TOO SLOW TO EVER SUCCEED AS ONLINE CURRENCY  (Read 2489 times)
VeeMiner
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April 08, 2013, 06:35:12 PM
 #21

OP should learn how to write in lower case
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April 08, 2013, 06:37:35 PM
 #22

since the new client came out.. its not to bad.. beats having to wait a week to update if your a week behind.
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April 08, 2013, 06:42:18 PM
 #23

Actually bitcoinologist has a good point, so maybe he's not just jet another Rothschild henchman Smiley.
Tested bitcoin transaction speed on my wife and finally she grabbed my VISA card. As she said if
she wants something then she wants it right now. Not 10 minutes later, not 5 minutes later but
right NOW. Real inpatient daughter of Eve... Smiley
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April 08, 2013, 06:54:10 PM
 #24

Actually bitcoinologist has a good point, so maybe he's not just jet another Rothschild henchman Smiley.
Tested bitcoin transaction speed on my wife and finally she grabbed my VISA card. As she said if
she wants something then she wants it right now. Not 10 minutes later, not 5 minutes later but
right NOW. Real inpatient daughter of Eve... Smiley


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Point_of_sale_with_bitcoins_isn.27t_possible_because_of_the_10_minute_wait_for_confirmation

IMHO accepting credit cards is riskier than 0-confirmation bitcoin transactions (of course with a reasonable fee and listening a few seconds for double spends)

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April 08, 2013, 06:54:27 PM
 #25

Hi,

Well for all the plusses, all the hype, all the talk of global change. There is ONE SMALL chink in the bitcoin Armour. For all the zero transactions, anonymity, security etc etc

IT IS TOO DAMN SLOW  !!

Unless bitcoin can match paypal/credit card for speed of use, all the pluses will be forgotten as joe public is left waiting for 10 mins, 2 hours or even the next day wondering if his/her bitcoin transaction  has confirmed.

Seriously, in light of the massive surge in bitcoin, currently driven by hype and stock broker mentality buying and speculating. IF bitcoin is ever to take over paypal and its other cronies, we need to be as quick.

Or, it will forever flounder as an experiment, great for blackmarket, some merchants will offer it but...that will be its zenith reached.

The whole concept of online transactions is INSTANT. SPEED, ONE CLICK...JOB DONE.

Bitcoin cannot offer this as the current rate of how the block chain works.

Thank you for you purchase, you might have the auction you wanted, you may have got the domain you wanted but give us a few hours or well, could be 10 mins, could be tomorrow and we will let you know if your transaction completed in time to get the purchase you wanted.

Ya righty !!....Ill use paypal or credit card.


They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Wink

Firstly, I would suggest you read the original bitcoin whitepaper.  You'll notice that bitcoin is artificially limited.  If you want it to go faster, there is no reason why it can't, however, you will find that doing it before we have enough users, will make the cost of transactions higher.

The confirmation count is just best practice.  Paypal do this through insurance, hence the reason you can find the sale goes through instantly, but if something goes wrong, you lose your money at a later date.  E-commerce is well known for the fraud opportunity it offers, and how its the e-commerce owners who end up taking the hit - thanks to the credit card companies subtly changing their T&Cs over the years!

Bitcoin can make transactions a lot cheaper by removing credit card company fees and the speed of confirmations is a choice the retailers make - but its early days, they will learn that they can control their own risk vs speed of transactions, but its better to start by using best practice!

As I said, a little knowledge can be dangerous! Wink

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April 08, 2013, 08:24:40 PM
 #26

I greatly appreciate the subtle insults etc but as you say, a little knowledge is dangerous. Heroes and Full wrongly assume that because someone is "new" to here, they are new to the internet or eCommerce.

I am more than familiar with paypal, fiat currency, chargebacks and its weaknesses and am very much behind bitcoin and want to see it succeed and work. I have been an online merchant for over 20 years and bitcoin, for me, is more than brilliant. I want to incorporate into my own online business asap and I wish to apply my time, knowledge and efforts to pushing bitcoin to its full potential.

And yes, I would love to create a payment service in bitcoin that does just that, anyone interested let me know. Paysius, Bitpay etc and current solutions are lacking in many areas and missing opportunity to get more merchants on board in a user friendly way.

For example: I am yet to see any "BTC" payment provider offer a simple copy/paste "buy now" button as structured as "paypal". Paypal is quite crap enough so if nobody can even offer a buy now button as flexible then room for improvement for sure.

That said, my point is simple; and it would seem many have missed it but quick to judge, slow to learn.

I am simply reminding us all that, of the 100'000's of online customers I have dealt with, and the many other online businesses I have dealt with all agree on one thing.

Customers are a pain in the ass Smiley..and online even more so, as they want instant. Not 5 mins, not even 1 min. CLICK DONE.

So whether it be new services, changes of merchant behavior or whatever, the fact still stands that the wider population of online spenders (yes there are millions online who do not use this forum) will want an Instant Click Done process before bitcoin can become mainstream online and surpass the other payment methods.

As to how this simple fact seems to have upset so many people is beyond me. If we are to support and drive bitcoin forward then these are some of the many issues we need to face and find solutions for.



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April 08, 2013, 08:36:45 PM
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I greatly appreciate the subtle insults etc but as you say, a little knowledge is dangerous. Heroes and Full wrongly assume that because someone is "new" to here, they are new to the internet or eCommerce.

I am more than familiar with paypal, fiat currency, chargebacks and its weaknesses and am very much behind bitcoin and want to see it succeed and work. I have been an online merchant for over 20 years and bitcoin, for me, is more than brilliant. I want to incorporate into my own online business asap and I wish to apply my time, knowledge and efforts to pushing bitcoin to its full potential.

And yes, I would love to create a payment service in bitcoin that does just that, anyone interested let me know. Paysius, Bitpay etc and current solutions are lacking in many areas and missing opportunity to get more merchants on board in a user friendly way.

For example: I am yet to see any "BTC" payment provider offer a simple copy/paste "buy now" button as structured as "paypal". Paypal is quite crap enough so if nobody can even offer a buy now button as flexible then room for improvement for sure.

That said, my point is simple; and it would seem many have missed it but quick to judge, slow to learn.

I am simply reminding us all that, of the 100'000's of online customers I have dealt with, and the many other online businesses I have dealt with all agree on one thing.

Customers are a pain in the ass Smiley..and online even more so, as they want instant. Not 5 mins, not even 1 min. CLICK DONE.

So whether it be new services, changes of merchant behavior or whatever, the fact still stands that the wider population of online spenders (yes there are millions online who do not use this forum) will want an Instant Click Done process before bitcoin can become mainstream online and surpass the other payment methods.

As to how this simple fact seems to have upset so many people is beyond me. If we are to support and drive bitcoin forward then these are some of the many issues we need to face and find solutions for.





CLICK DONE is possible with bitcoin too and with appropriate precautions (check for appropriate fee, listen for double spend) is less risky than accepting a credit card online where you risk fraud chargebacks. it's up to the merchant whether he/she will accept 0-confirmation transactions. are you aware that 0-confirmation transactions are instant?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Point_of_sale_with_bitcoins_isn.27t_possible_because_of_the_10_minute_wait_for_confirmation

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April 08, 2013, 09:02:44 PM
 #28

Yes thanks for that Smiley.

Just need to get more merchants and or systems that offer this. I'm yet to spend any BTC online and get a Click Done Purchase.
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April 08, 2013, 09:21:21 PM
 #29

I assume you've set up https://bitpay.com/

If you are a 20 year vet of e-commerce (!) then you would find they are exactly what you are looking for

works well with most of the big name e-commerce systems.

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April 08, 2013, 09:34:13 PM
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Unless bitcoin can match paypal/credit card for speed of use, .....

Ya righty !!....Ill use paypal or credit card.

You should compare MtGox (BitPay or whatever) to Paypal; or compare Bitcoin to Dollars.  You are comparing apples to oranges.  Bitcoin moves way faster than my dollars ever had.

Actually I say lets have a race!  Bitcoin vs PayPal.  I bet Paypal is slower to show your updated balance if I sent you money.
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April 08, 2013, 09:45:51 PM
 #31

Yes, still waiting for response from bitpay about their button system, hoping they can advance beyond a one product based concept. Often merchants need various shipping rates, sizes, colors, options etc which so far I have not found a "buy now" button that can do that. If there is, please let me know.

And the share number of posts about transaction times in bitcoin, people waiting hours for confirmations etc should somewhat balance the simple point I am making. Still baffled how easily offended it would seem some bitcoin supporters are.



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April 08, 2013, 09:47:50 PM
 #32

Yes, still waiting for response from bitpay about their button system, hoping they can advance beyond a one product based concept. Often merchants need various shipping rates, sizes, colors, options etc which so far I have not found a "buy now" button that can do that. If there is, please let me know.

And the share number of posts about transaction times in bitcoin, people waiting hours for confirmations etc should somewhat balance the simple point I am making. Still baffled how easily offended it would seem some bitcoin supporters are.





The advanced api lets you add virtually any item at any price.. Its not really that complex.. Pm me if you need help. Also google for bitpay api.

Payment takes literally less than 15 seconds after the tx is broadcast..

Of course thats because they use zero confirmarions to notify the buyer.

For the merchant to actually have guarantee of payment, would take about an hour... But it takes 90 days on paypal, so its much better.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
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April 08, 2013, 10:00:08 PM
 #33

Some food for thought:
https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-confirmation-time

Average confirmation time appears to be going down over time.

That said, I once had a BTC transaction take nearly a month to get confirmed. Special case, but still.
bitcoinologist
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April 08, 2013, 10:12:25 PM
 #34

Nice one thanks, have PM you.

What I am looking for is simply a "paypal" style buy now button for bitcoin. Bitpay is very lacking in options etc.

We are not willing to invest heavy in carts etc for bitcoin so we want test is the most cost effective way we can. Copy paste buy now and promote accepting bitcoins and see just how many sales we actually get. Of course if goes well, worth investing in full system to manage.

Also likely offer discount to any customer that pays in BTC, cash always talks Smiley.
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April 08, 2013, 10:16:36 PM
 #35

I will tell You this: I'm waiting 6 days and counting for PayPal withdrawal to Visa card.

OP is either fool or spreading FUD.

A thousand times this.

For the merchant to actually have guarantee of payment, would take about an hour... But it takes 90 days on paypal, so its much better.

And this. How's those confirmation times looking now?

Also, wikileaks has had great success using Paypal and credit cards.

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April 09, 2013, 06:46:32 AM
 #36

Average confirmation time appears to be going down over time.

It's a side effect of extensive growth of miners population. It can't last forever.
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April 09, 2013, 07:35:24 AM
 #37

a frontend like ripple solves this easily, no?

BTC.sx - Leveraged Bitcoin Trading. Simply use Bitcoin to take advantage of a rising or falling Bitcoin price.
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April 09, 2013, 11:37:28 AM
 #38

I suggest reading this article:

http://people.scs.carleton.ca/~clark/biblio/bitcoin/Karame%202012.pdf
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April 09, 2013, 11:48:39 AM
 #39

I don't mind it being a bit slow at all.
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April 09, 2013, 12:06:27 PM
 #40

Confirmation time can only really be an issue when you spend money on the high street - online retailers are happy to wait 1 hour before they ship something to you. Even on the high street I can't see it being a problem either, consider examples like this:

If you buy a takeaway coffee for 10mBTC, chances are that most cafes will be happy to let you leave with a 0-confirmation sale - the probability of fraud is very low, and the impact of the fraud is only the price of a cup of coffee.
At the other end of the scale, if you're buying a car from a dealer for 150BTC, you will have already filled in a load of forms with your name and address, and probably shown ID, so the dealer will also probably be happy seeing you leave with zero confirmations.

Other things to point out - you could easily buy a car with a credit card, then call up your bank and say that you didn't make that purchase, and they'll cancel the transaction. You'll probably go to jail, but why wouldn't you also go to jail if you did the equivalent with Bitcoin?
We could also just use small-denomination private keys as hard currency (physical Bitcoins) for buying small things like coffee.
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