[flibbr]

 

[dave111223]

lol, I was thinking the exact same thing about 5 minutes ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170864.0

[bg002h]

This sounds childish. The foundation has zero authority. Zero. As in none. The foundation exists to get money from lots of people and give it to few people so they can make Bitcoin better. It's rather simple.

Supporting the foundation is supporting Bitcoin, not some authority. If you are like nearly everyone on this forum, you either never contributed code to Bitcoin or you were never paid for whatever it is you have done to advance Bitcoin. Consequently, very few people have dedicated their careers to the Bitcoin protocol We can't keep hoping that the important work on Bitcoin keeps getting done for free (or quickly...during someone else's nights, weekends, and vacations). 

And you worry about authority? Yes, board members decide how the donations are spent. If you don't like that, all you can do is to be a part of changing it. But you can't do that from the outside.

[DannyHamilton]

If you like the idea of a monopolistic elite at the top, please add your comments also.

As long as they don't make any changes that I disagree with, I don't really care if a few people who know each other want to give themselves a fancy name and try to get others to donate money to their cause.

You are welcome to join together with a few of your own friends and create the "Bitcoin Institute" if you like.  You can create your own bitcoininstitute.org web page and fork your own copy of the reference client in git.  You can put out your own updates to the software and see if you can get donations to support the development work you are doing.

If changes are made that I disagree with, I'll probably find others with my point of view and do the same.

Fancy names don't give power to people.  People give power to people.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
And you worry about authority? Yes, board members decide how the donations are spent. If you don't like that, all you can do is to be a part of changing it. But you can't do that from the outside.

Actually there are two other options.

One: don't donate.  Then you don't have to worry about how "your" money is being spent.

Two: Create your own organization.  Then you get to choose where your organization's money is spent.

[bg002h]

This sounds childish. The foundation has zero authority. Zero. As in none. The foundation exists to get money from lots of people and give it to few people so they can make Bitcoin better. It's rather simple.

Supporting the foundation is supporting Bitcoin, not some authority. If you are like nearly everyone on this forum, you either never contributed code to Bitcoin or you were never paid for whatever it is you have done to advance Bitcoin. Consequently, very few people have dedicated their careers to the Bitcoin protocol We can't keep hoping that the important work on Bitcoin keeps getting done for free (or quickly...during someone else's nights, weekends, and vacations).  

And you worry about authority? Yes, board members decide how the donations are spent. If you don't like that, all you can do is to be a part of changing it. But you can't do that from the outside.

The foundation is a joke and it is sad that they have conned so many people into paying for something. Obviously Gavin's heart was never into bitcoin, cause if he is just looking for a pay check which is the main reason the foundation was setup, then he shouldn't be writing the code.

Have you quit you job to work on Bitcoin? Did your wife approve? Did you worry about saving for your daughters college fund...her wedding...your retirement?

Real people with real lives and real talent need more than "heart" to make life happen.

[tvbcof]

When the foundation was in 'request for comment' phase only a minority of people were leery about it.  ~theymos and myself are two that I remember.  My argument was that it created a vector for attacks of one form or another.  I don't remember ~theymos's but it it's public record.

I'm not and never was virulently against the foundation and have come close (in some ways) to donating to it.  My belief is that the foundation is the PRIMARY reason we are enjoying the present spike in valuations for those who feel that that is important.  It would be a lie to pretend that I am not delighted about that myself.

My personal belief is that the foundation is forming a fortress and echo-chamber within which 'bad ideas' are being amplified, and I think that it will ultimately destroy Bitcoin if it has not already.  This was not my original concern about the construct though.  I must qualify 'destroy' as being in my own perception of it's potential, and also that I may well be wrong.

Time will tell...

[Elwar]

It sucks that the decentralized Internet only has one search engine: Yahoo.

--Internet user (1994)

[bg002h]

This sounds childish. The foundation has zero authority. Zero. As in none. The foundation exists to get money from lots of people and give it to few people so they can make Bitcoin better. It's rather simple.

Supporting the foundation is supporting Bitcoin, not some authority. If you are like nearly everyone on this forum, you either never contributed code to Bitcoin or you were never paid for whatever it is you have done to advance Bitcoin. Consequently, very few people have dedicated their careers to the Bitcoin protocol We can't keep hoping that the important work on Bitcoin keeps getting done for free (or quickly...during someone else's nights, weekends, and vacations).  

And you worry about authority? Yes, board members decide how the donations are spent. If you don't like that, all you can do is to be a part of changing it. But you can't do that from the outside.

The foundation is a joke and it is sad that they have conned so many people into paying for something. Obviously Gavin's heart was never into bitcoin, cause if he is just looking for a pay check which is the main reason the foundation was setup, then he shouldn't be writing the code.

Have you quit you job to work on Bitcoin? Did your wife approve? Did you worry about saving for your daughters college fund...her wedding...your retirement?

Real people with real lives and real talent need more than "heart" to make life happen.

Bitcoin is my career. I am only 23 so I don't have a family, but I own my own apartment because I work hard on bitcoin. I ask every company I use to accept bitcoin. I been contributing my share to the bitcoin community. If Gavin can't work on bitcoin then it isn't for him, he should move on, or get a paying gig, but to have the foundation pay for open source work is INSANE!!!!!!!!!

Open source programming isn't worth paying for?

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
to have the foundation pay for open source work is INSANE!!!!!!!!!

It's not insane, it's capitalism.

There is no reason that someone shouldn't profit from their efforts if someone else is willing to pay them for those efforts.

Nobody is forcing anybody to donate the the foundation.  It is voluntary.  It might be insane for others to make donations, but as long as they are willing to I don't see anything insane about being willing to accept those donations.

[tvbcof]

- snip -
to have the foundation pay for open source work is INSANE!!!!!!!!!

It's not insane, it's capitalism.
...

It's not 'insane', not 'capitalism', and not 'uncommon'.  The FreeBSD foundation comes to mind.

[Insu Dra]

The foundation exists to get money from lots of people and give it to few people so they can make Bitcoin better. It's rather simple.

This sums up our entire economic system tbh, I'm glad to see bitcoin settled in and feels at home.
And with asic there about to pull the plug on decentralized mining so hey it's win win for all.

[DannyHamilton]

Not beta software, and software were features and request are shot down with no vote or looking into. As I said obviously Gavin can't handle it, not to mention the fork was easily detected in test, yet no one tested it.

So start your own fork of the source.  That way you can make sure that features and requests are not shot down.  You can also make sure that changes are well tested before being released as an official update.  As far as I know there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from doing this.  The foundation only has as much power as we allow them to have.

[DannyHamilton]

You do know that is impossible,

Why do you say that?

I wish I could go make java client that would have all my features,

Yeah, replicating the current code exactly in another language like java would not be easy.

but I want a full node. Right now that is impossible to have a full node that is a 100% aligned with the bitcoin-qt

No it isn't.  You just have to use the current codebase.  Then you can add features to that code however you like.

and there no documentation so it even harder.

If documentation is what you want, then create it.

So I am locked into this fork.

Only because you choose to be.

[DannyHamilton]

You do know that is impossible,

Why do you say that?

I wish I could go make java client that would have all my features,

Yeah, replicating the current code exactly in another language like java would not be easy.

but I want a full node. Right now that is impossible to have a full node that is a 100% aligned with the bitcoin-qt

No it isn't.  You just have to use the current codebase.  Then you can add features to that code however you like.

and there no documentation so it even harder.

If documentation is what you want, then create it.

So I am locked into this fork.

Only because you choose to be.

Many core developers and Mike Hearn

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155476.msg1715356#msg1715356

And rather than creating your own documentation, you choose to accept their statements as an excuse to complain.  Regardless, there is nothing preventing you from copying the current codebase and creating your own fork.

[DannyHamilton]

I have tried to create my own fork in java, and it didn't go so well, it is too much trial and error.

Agreed.  It is likely to be very difficult to re-implement bitcoin in another language right now.

Also i don't know C++ and python as good as they do so copying the current codebase is not an option.

Sounds like a great educational opportunity to me.

Believe me I have done a lot more then just complain I explore so many ways to make the full node more my own and it can only work to a certain part. I think complaining is allowed in this situation.

Certainly, you are allowed to do as much complaining as you like.  Just like I get to complain about your complaining. 

[DannyHamilton]

Yeah after I write code in PHP, then check on my Java trading bot and add somethings to that, I so want to work on learn C++ and python LMAO

Skip the PHP and the Java trading bot.  Just stick with the C++.

From what I hear you can earn a living programming a bitcoin client in C++.

[DannyHamilton]

Yeah after I write code in PHP, then check on my Java trading bot and add somethings to that, I so want to work on learn C++ and python LMAO

Skip the PHP and the Java trading bot.  Just stick with the C++.

From what I hear you can earn a living programming a bitcoin client in C++.

Give me another 20 years I be able to take Gavin spot of lead developer and then I be on the other side and I be recruiting members for the foundation.

Do that, and I just might joint your organization as a developer. 

[alex_fun]

Foundation lol a forbes columnist on it. Interesting. Also Mtgox. The people who contributed to btc tanking. I agree with gweedo if someone is not interested they can work at paid gig and contribute a bit in spare time. Gweedo +1

[Severian]

Supporting the foundation is supporting Bitcoin

I'm a lifetime member. I joined to support Gavin's work and to ensure that he gets paid.

The business interests on the board - Mark Karpeles, Charlie Shrem and Peter Vessenes - need to leave the board.