Monero's ANON FAIL !

[BuySomeBitcoins]

So i have a few questions..

If ANON was needed so badly why did the dev's not submit the idea to the Bitcoin core dev's foundation etc ?
Was it because they knew it would be rejected ?

Seems to me i am not the only one who has rejected this anon coin idea huh ?
Otherwise BTC would have anon code in it already mirroring what Monero is doing.

I love how they patronize everyone and say it's needed.. but the entire Bitcoin world rejects them.
Not just .. Spoetnik 

Instead they felt the need to create a NEW coin and tack on ANON features..
Rather than trying to get the ANON code integrated into BTC.

Hmm i wonder why ? Any idea why people ?
Why is it they would want to start a new coin ? hmmmm ? Maybe Risto can answer he bought LOTS of them and controls the coin.

Yeah.. the guy with the Pink Bentley who lives in a castle.

So what do we see bottom line ?
Want Morono's ? well guess what ? you need to buy them.. with Bitcoin 
Yup.. Bitcoin hahahhahahah

AND ...

You can line up at Poloniex the official shitcoin exchange for them to buy them clutching your picture ID.

So Profiteers.. do you see through this retarded little facade ?

Moral of the story, having a legendary account does not make you any smarter.

[jwinterm]

...

There's no 2k$ anon limit. Level 1 verification (2k$ limit) requires your name already. And even then you're pretty much at the mercy of Poloniex regarding when they will require full identification.

...

You can enter bugs bunny or whatever you want in the name field, just FYI, although your second point above is entirely correct.

I think another thing that boosts Poloniex position in volume is that many people use shapeshift now, and shapeshift buys their coins at the exchange with the best liquidity, so it's kind of a liquidity begets liquidity catch-22 at this point. Just the other day I read on reddit about some retard that was storing coins on poloniex using them as a wallet, and trying to convert them to different coins using shapeshift; like, wtf dude?

Anyway, I think bitfinex will probably start to pick up some more volume, and maybe then we'll see it added to btc-e or something which would further help.

[dinofelis]

Anonimity is not that important to me but even then an anon coin with its entire trading volume happening on one single US exchange is just trash to me.

If anonimity were more important to me, I'd much rather want to avoid using exchanges with FinCEN/AML/KYC first than just using full anon coins.

Anonymity is not directly "paying secretly the vile guys that are going to shoot the POTUS" or something.  We then get into debates about how it is impossible to achieve "perfect" anonymity.

No, the point is much more down-to-earth.  The problem with an open ledger like bitcoin is that there is essentially no privacy.  The pseudonymity thought off by Satoshi is simply not resistent to chain analysis.  The "web" of transactions propagates too much partial real-world knowledge, and allows it to be turned into an almost complete breakdown of the pseudonymity.   This was probably not anticipated by Satoshi.  We're not talking about law enforcement, but about almost everybody who can acquire some real-world knowledge and spend some money/effort on chain analysis.

Very simply put, it goes like this: If you, Joe, pay me, I consider it a break in privacy if you find out that I used that money to pay Mary.  You're not supposed to know about my relationship with Mary.

Now, how could you, Joe, know that I used your money to pay Mary ?  Suppose that you, Joe, are a guy who has a bar, and that I'm a plumber.  I'm repairing the toilets in your bar, and you pay me.  Nice.  Now, it is not a secret that you paid me for that work.  I pay my taxes, I don't have to hide that.  But Mary is my friend, and for her birthday, I give her some bitcoin.  And now, Mary comes and drinks a coffee in your bar, and pays you with her coins.

You can easily see that the coins Mary gives you for her coffee, are two transactions away from the transaction where you paid me.  So you know that Mary got those coins from me.   This is something I think is private and you shouldn't find out.  But I cannot avoid you finding out that Mary has the coins you paid me with.

Well, unless I use a mixer.  But then we're doing "anonymity" again.  And we're not talking about shady business.  We're talking about privacy.

With fiat, you wouldn't know.  Fiat is much more private than bitcoin.  With cash, that's pretty evident.  If you paid me in cash for the plumber job, and I gave some cash to Mary, you won't know that this is the same cash.  But even with bank accounts that doesn't work.  If I got money on my bank account from you for the plumber job, and then I sent some money to Mary's account, there's no way you can know that when she pays you from her account, that those funds came from me.  Yes, law enforcement could find out the transfers if they subpoena the bank, if they suspect me to be a criminal.  But you can't.  With bitcoin, all that private information is out for everyone to grab.

That's where something like monero comes in handy: to restore about the same level of privacy as with fiat money.  Even somewhat better.  But not to pay the guys that will shoot the POTUS.  That's not what we're talking about.  

That said, there are also situations where a bitcoin like open ledger is what people want.  For instance, for charity.  If you give a donation in bitcoin to a charity, you want maybe to see what happens with the money.  There's no secret or privacy to be had with the account of a charitable organisation.

Well, depends.  Suppose that I'm the recipient of some charity.  Should the whole world know that I got some charity ?  That I'm a needy guy ?  On one hand, yes: the donors would like to be able to verify that I'm not some rich guy running away with the funds of charity.  On the other hand, maybe I would like some discreteness about my poverty.

But one can see clear usage of open, transparent ledgers.   But also of private ledgers with anonymisation.

[synthgauge]

So i have a few questions..

If ANON was needed so badly why did the dev's not submit the idea to the Bitcoin core dev's foundation etc ?

I dont understand the question. Maybe paraphrase in better english? Whos ur source suggesting "anon was needed"? Nobody has ever needed this shit, accept this and move on. Anonymity is a means of marketing and is widely used to justify the reasoning for pumps. See where it all comes from? Poloniex bear pit. Its where the calls for new fanky standards and metrics stem from. The idea is that the Core itself is not supposed to merge a true anonymous tech in its original binding into the underlying bitcoin protocol. What is believed by many to be a true anon designed to fully cloak ur transactions exists solely in the form of altcoin which is monero. Because of the implementation difficulties monero wasnt implemented on top of bitcoin protocol.

[Shiroslullaby]

Dinofelis gives a perfect example of a real-world example of how easy blockchain analysis can be done with just a little information.
There are many reasons to have anonymity built into a coin, instead of being forced to rely on outside services like mixers.
If you aren't a fan or don't think you have a need for this feature, vote with your money and don't buy it.
The market will decide in the long run if a feature is necessary or not.

[sui_generis]

Nice job rejecting it. Those who didn't reject Monero made roughly 10x profit over the course of a year. At this point you have to be willfully ignorant to claim that there is no use for privacy. Peoples' Coinbase accounts have been closed for handling tainted Bitcoins! These users may not have done anything shady themselves, but merely handled coins which were linked to gambling websites though chain analysis.

As to Monero's credibility, at this point several Bitcoin Core developers have said positive things about Monero. Gregory Maxwell has a Monero address on his profile! There's a significant number of intelligent, capable and successful people associated with Monero. Monero has PhD cryptographers working on it, and publishing articles in academic journals. To claim that Monero is a "fail" can only be envy or stupidity.

[propcorn]

sadly another FUD try post.... its easy to spread FUD with no knowage

[cryptimus prime]

If ANON was needed so badly why did the dev's not submit the idea to the Bitcoin core dev's foundation etc ?
Was it because they knew it would be rejected ?

Bitcoin struggles with even smaller updates like the blocksize.
Implementing anon would be probably equal to cold fusion for BTC devs. 

I think a good portion of users use BTC because of pseudoanonymity. Now they can have the real thing.

Monero is basically what BTC was meant to be.

[Spoetnik]

So Febo declared Bitcoin will never have ANON features added ?

I myself see no reason why this could not happen down the road.
Then what are you going to do with all those Monoro's your hoarding for profits ?
Dump them of course   ..eh Risto

Many of you claim ANON is NEEDED but the actual implementations are impossible.
Although Monero merch has proudly boasted secure and untraceble.
Which they better hope to hell they do not get hacked or worse..
Hackers find a crack in the armor and exploit it.

Anyone who says anything on the web is bullet proof is an idiot period .
If it runs it can be cracked.

All crackers and hackers do is look for the weak point in the system such as Poloniex and exploit it.
No matter how many times this is explained to Monero idiots they just deny it.
They are delusional.

You don't need to be hunted down like a dog with your picture ID.
All Poloniex has to do is hand over your trade info and IP address etc and then sit back & wait for the FBI at your door.

See ?

All they do is make stupid fucking excuses to perpetuate a false sense of security all over the value of their bags ..gauged against the value of Bitcoin.. which.. might indeed end up having ANON features implemented.

Sorry Morono shills but your little facade / farce / charade has not worked so far and i see no real reason why things will change down the road.

You guys should just go back to bragging about being the official "coin" for pedo's and terrorists and Fentanyl dealers on dark-markets worlds wide.. YOUR BIG SELLING POINT.

I would love to see Bitcoin have major ANON features added.. it would render Morono dead instantly once and for all.. then we wouldn't have to drink their profiteer Kool-Aid anymore.

And Febo.. was that a defense ?
The guy says hey 98% of all coin activity is on Poloniex..
So you say..
Oh well.. they are just idiot profiteers shorting it for profits.
Uhmmm and THAT is a good thing ?
What is unique about that again ?
Sounds like what is going on with the other 6,000+ other ANN topics here.

PS:
If Satoshi wanted BTC to have major ANON functions he would have implemented them.
And i take HIS word over it vs noob accounts regged to defend Morono here.

If i were you Morono's baggies i would be worried about now.
Your Dark Market bullshit scheme failed so what next ?
And.. what the hell will you all do if BTC gets equivalent ANON capability added to it ?
What then ?

And you never did answer my question shill bitches..
Why did you not push to get ANON implemented on BTC ?
Why did you INSTEAD go and make a new coin ?

Care to answer that ? ..no i didn't think so  

[paratox]

Anyone who says anything on the web is bullet proof is an idiot period .
If it runs it can be cracked.

All crackers and hackers do is look for the weak point in the system such as Poloniex and exploit it.
No matter how many times this is explained to Monero idiots they just deny it.

Where do people deny that a potential weak spot couldn't be exploited or that something on the web is bullet proof?

You don't need to be hunted down like a dog with your picture ID.
All Poloniex has to do is hand over your trade info and IP address etc and then sit back & wait for the FBI at your door.

So then they know who have monero but not what they spent it on, or where they got it? As long as it isn't illegal to own monero, why would the FBI come to your door?

You guys should just go back to bragging about being the official "coin" for pedo's and terrorists and Fentanyl dealers on dark-markets worlds wide.. YOUR BIG SELLING POINT.

Where do you see this kind of bragging? Do you really believe that "privacy = illegal"?

I would love to see Bitcoin have major ANON features added.. it would render Morono dead instantly once and for all.. then we wouldn't have to drink their profiteer Kool-Aid anymore.

A lot of people would like more ANON features added to bitcoin. Sadly the possibilities are limited due to the underlying protocol of bitcoin. We can at least hope for CT to be implemented in the not to distant future and maybe more after that.

PS:
If Satoshi wanted BTC to have major ANON functions he would have implemented them.
And i take HIS word over it vs noob accounts regged to defend Morono here.

Actually, satoshi was interested in making it more anon. If you follow the link you will see that he is talking about "group signatures" which is the predecessor of "ring signatures".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770.msg9074#msg9074

And.. what the hell will you all do if BTC gets equivalent ANON capability added to it ?
What then ?

That would be great.

Why did you not push to get ANON implemented on BTC ?
Why did you INSTEAD go and make a new coin ?

Care to answer that ? ..no i didn't think so  

Are you serious? People demand more anonymity features from BTC devs all the time. Beside that, making an altcoin can be a good way to test features that are too experimental for direct implementation into bitcoin.

[jjacob]

Bitcoin has value because "trust" is worth something.

And nothing says "trust" like a 100% mathmatically proveable immutable transparent ledger.

Why would you want to trade your paycheck for Fedcoins or Zcash if you don't even know how many of them exist?

OP is talking about Monero's fail here. If I really wanted to hide my stash of cash, I would prefer coins that give me much better anonymity than Bitcoin.
If indeed I wanted to store Bitcoins, I would have to run it through multiple mixers to anonymise my coins.

[KenR]

Exactly. Bitcoin will never have anonymity feature. that is why coins as Monero brought something to the Crypto table.

That's not true.Any coin after it reaches a certain level of achievement like bitcoin did with it's peeking prices,it will start to get less anonymous.Not because of the way coin was designed but the commercial factors will slowly degrade the tech aspects resulting in turning your coin into a commercial pile of shit,just like bitcoins.

[dadon]

So i have a few questions..

If ANON was needed so badly why did the dev's not submit the idea to the Bitcoin core dev's foundation etc ?
Was it because they knew it would be rejected ?

Seems to me i am not the only one who has rejected this anon coin idea huh ?
Otherwise BTC would have anon code in it already mirroring what Monero is doing.

I love how they patronize everyone and say it's needed.. but the entire Bitcoin world rejects them.
Not just .. Spoetnik 

Instead they felt the need to create a NEW coin and tack on ANON features..
Rather than trying to get the ANON code integrated into BTC.

Hmm i wonder why ? Any idea why people ?
Why is it they would want to start a new coin ? hmmmm ? Maybe Risto can answer he bought LOTS of them and controls the coin.

Yeah.. the guy with the Pink Bentley who lives in a castle.

So what do we see bottom line ?
Want Morono's ? well guess what ? you need to buy them.. with Bitcoin 
Yup.. Bitcoin hahahhahahah

AND ...

You can line up at Poloniex the official shitcoin exchange for them to buy them clutching your picture ID.

So Profiteers.. do you see through this retarded little facade ?

yes that is the precise reason anon coins have value..BTC will never go anon lol it would never go mainstream if it did, and the core btc devs know this..if they even suggested it the blowback would be huge.

[cryptimus prime]

Problem with BTC is too much transperancy even for the mainstream. Big corporations do not wann their accounts and transactions revealed to everybody.

Regarding Satoshi even he was interested in more privacy protection. We dont know If Nicolas van Saberhagen was just another pseudonym of Satoshi.

[DrkLvr_]

Sputnik is a fucking retard

[Cryptotraider16]

real real interesed read...i love it

[Febo]

And Febo.. was that a defense ?
The guy says hey 98% of all coin activity is on Poloniex..
So you say..
Oh well.. they are just idiot profiteers shorting it for profits.
Uhmmm and THAT is a good thing ?
What is unique about that again ?
Sounds like what is going on with the other 6,000+ other ANN topics here.

That is how it is, it is nor good or bad. I guess it is good for those traders there, since if it would not be they would stop doing it. Unless it is an addiction like the gamblers have.

You don't need to be hunted down like a dog with your picture ID.
All Poloniex has to do is hand over your trade info and IP address etc and then sit back & wait for the FBI at your door.

I dont know how is in your country. But in my country no one will come to knock on my doors if i bought an untraceable asset on Poloniex. I dont need to pay any tax for it unless i cash it out physically ( no crypto here is cash) in my country. So tax guys have no interest about it.
I am sure none other government paid repressive organisation would do anything like that either since they have lots other things to do and would never get court permission to be even allowed to knock ( I guess laws change from country to country)  and in countries where they might. what they would do?  with deleted private keys no one can see any transactions. So even if you finance Trump campaign and after Hilary revolution no one can prove you did it and cant sentence you to death with hanging.

[toknormal]

Suppose that you, Joe, are a guy who has a bar, and that I'm a plumber...Mary comes and drinks a coffee in your bar, and pays you with her coins

You're describing blockchain transparency. The very reason bitcoin has value as an unbacked monetary asset.

If an asset has value, people will soon find a way to keep their ownership of it private. But building obscurity into the asset itself amounts to signing it a slow death warrant since "privacy" was never a monetary property in its own right.

Encrypted messaging systems (which is what Monero is) are useful for hiding stuff. But they are not 'the future of money'.

[jwinterm]

..."privacy" was never a monetary property in its own right...

Can you distinguish one ounce of gold from another? One stack of $100 bills from another? (Not really.) The point is that you can distinguish one bitcoin from another, as lots of folks that have been banned from Coinbase have found out, and that is a problem. With Monero this is much less of or not a problem at all.

[Spoetnik]

Dinofelis gives a perfect example of a real-world example of how easy blockchain analysis can be done with just a little information.
There are many reasons to have anonymity built into a coin, instead of being forced to rely on outside services like mixers.
If you aren't a fan or don't think you have a need for this feature, vote with your money and don't buy it.
The market will decide in the long run if a feature is necessary or not.

analysis *IS* done commonly by simply tracking end points.
The bullshit in the middle is called security.. AKA: all your anon tech schemes.

Not sure how many times i can possibly explain cross referencing to a bunch of "experts"

Let me try AGAIN for the 666th time in the last couple years.. with my cracker / hacker experience knowledge i earned with real life.

If you had a system that encrypted snail mail and made it 100% uncrackable..
And you wanted to exploit the system to get the contents..
You could hypothetically intercept or control or manipulate the end points.
I could for example simply wait for your mail to be delivered.

Social engineering for example has been responsible for a LOT of hacks.
As well as other methods such as US Marshall arrest warrants when the show up at your door.
Turning on VPN logging for 2 years running while allowing the service to continue to run.

Or the obvious phone up some provider and bullshit them and get the passwords etc.

Or be in control of all inputs and outputs of the internet in North America like the US govt is in fact..
I seen a report over a decade ago that mentioned the US govt controls the back bones relay servers.
It was alleged that the first hop on a trace route leaving your ISP would be landing on a US govt controlled machine.
So i did a check even though i am in Canada.
So what did i see when looking up the first hop on my trace ?
The first IP was registered online to the USA DOD ..dept of defense.
Same group of guys that used BRIBERY to get a phone number to nab Bin Laden
..that cost them buying a rat in the middle east a Lambo.

Since i don't know if it is still regged to the DOD ..if they were smart they obfuscated the matter.
I would not want it broadcast it's a US govt IP with plain text.
Nothing like a false sense of security .. as printed on Monero Hoodies to placate the masses  

So a Lambo huh ?
How many of these greedy services in Crypto exist that would happily rat you out for a chunk of cash .. or Lambo from the CIA ?
Especially when they are confronted with a warrant anyway..

Most ..that is what !

Any site i used my email address inexplicably sent me malware in Crypto.
The trusted are in reality not trust worthy in the slightest..
Why does that matter ?
Your information is guarded by pools or exchanges etc.

Funny story.. Mullick had no idea how a user was regged here to Troll me using my Cryptsy Registration first and last name.
Kind of funny how "Trust Worthy" they are yet somehow my fucking full name got leaked to a Troll mouthing me off on the forum here.  

Not only does Poloniex and Coinbase and others collect your info but they do rat you out too.
Coinbase and Cryptsy admitted it already.
And no you don't NEED to be verified.. having them hand over all your trade info and IP address can often be damning *enough*

So to the snotty little fuckhead having a jab at me earlier..
"Moral of the story" ?

Yeah, i will tell you what it is.. the ANON shit is an illusion (a false sense of security)

Controlling the start point and end point renders the bullshit in the middle irrelevant most often.
I know i am a long time cracker and i have the mentality and the experience to back it up.
Do you shitcoin'ers ?
What is your experience ?
You learned c/c++ after showing up here 2 years ago and now your a world "expert" ?
Or you read news stories on the web before ?
Hey fuckheads.. my old buddy who hacked a world famous company and made headlines news more than once was popped by the FBI.
I barley got by.. lucky for me my buddy said what he was doing was too risky and said don't bother helping.
Or i would be in jail too. (i offered to help him on our PC game cracking group IRC channel)
You ?
You mouthy idiots read about the story of me and my friends on the news.. I WAS THE NEWS DUMB CUNTS.

over what ?

Hacking and Cracking and coding.

I have my name mentioned in the original credits for example on about a half dozen different Valve Steam cracks.
I was one of the very first guys to code emulators.. a creative attack.
I pioneered a whole shitload of ways of exploiting the program known as Steam and half the fucking planet had my code and PC Games on their machines.
Further more the current one people use now is based off of my work and my names is credited for it too.

It was easy.. a kid in the candy store.
I looked at my target and had a blast thinking of all the endless ways to exploit Steam.
And hell yeah i found many  
Doug and Gabe etc know my name well LOL
You guys ? hahahha


This was not the point to the topic i made though.
My first post went on about other aspects.. such as the relation or comparison to Bitcoin.
And why they did not even TRY to push the ANON concept to the Bitcoin system.
They didn't ..they simply made ANOTHER coin.

Pretty obvious why huh ?

Don't forget people Gavin A. had a request by the FBI to have a little pow-wow meeting.. he did.
NO he never did say what happened.
Back then he was paid almost a million dollars a year salary by the BTC Foundation.

Trust ?
Did i... or did i not already mention how Risto spent MEW money from his employee / treasurer ?
Unaccounted for.
How do you trust people who operate in shady ways ? Such as the whole Monero crew.
You don't.. unless your a fucking idiot.

Did they ever explain the French Police fraud drama and arrests and Monero Marketing Company that does not exist by not employee's who really are employees ?

Trust ?
I would base that on the ACTIONS of users around here.. not an abused Trust Rating system.
Talk vs actions people.