How a cashless society could kill Bitcoin.

[danherbias07]

If the government came out today and declared that Bitcoin cannot be accepted as legal tender for purchases, I believe Bitcoin would find a way. It would find a way only because of the anonymity that today's cash affords people. Cash is the lovely bridge that people use in turning their Bitcoins into value.

Tomorrow though, when there is no longer cash and the only form of payment is electronic, and where all electronic payments are handled by auditable pools of companies, what will happen?

If you want to look how that might look in the future, look at a company that already functions are entirely electronic payments.
Take a look at Amazon: If Amazon was ordered not to accept Bitcoin, and cash no longer existed in the world, how would one be able to use Bitcoin to purchase things on Amazon?

In order for Bitcoin to work in a world that is hostile against it, it needs the anonymity of cash. What happens when that goes away?
Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this dilemma I've been having.

But that will take a big hit if the government will be the one telling that. A great value will be lowered with bitcoin. Some will not trust it anymore and might withdraw their coins. With that everything will come down. Until no one will support it anymore because of the big loss.

[Xenophoto]

I think if the whole world goes cashless, It would indeed help bitcoin adoption for Bitcoin is also a form of cashless payment.
Many opportunity will pop up for bitcoin with cashless society as traditional fiat system is a great hindirence for bitcoin.

I think you meant "hindrance" not "hindirence". I'd like to think that the world has become cashless because mass adoption has already happened. It would suck if the cashless society would be something that everyone's using credit card or ATM cards. That's still fiat money and the government are still in total control. It would take a lot of time before we will become a complete cashless society so it would really be rubbish if all those time weren't enough for the mass adoption of bitcoin to not happen.

[BitcoinPC]

Should think positively, bitcoin is not come tomorrow or today, it has been spend more than 7 to 8 years, it is a long time period, but still during that period, no one government argue with bitcoin or any other crypto currencies. So i don't think that in future, we will be seen that any other government not accept the bitcoin. I believe every country want to facilitate to their people, and bitcoin is one of them.  
Also, i don't think that cashless society could kill the bitcoin, because you see banks and government are using better schemes for cashless way.

[Zadicar]

I think if the whole world goes cashless, It would indeed help bitcoin adoption for Bitcoin is also a form of cashless payment.
Many opportunity will pop up for bitcoin with cashless society as traditional fiat system is a great hindirence for bitcoin.

I think you meant "hindrance" not "hindirence". I'd like to think that the world has become cashless because mass adoption has already happened. It would suck if the cashless society would be something that everyone's using credit card or ATM cards. That's still fiat money and the government are still in total control. It would take a lot of time before we will become a complete cashless society so it would really be rubbish if all those time weren't enough for the mass adoption of bitcoin to not happen.

Thats just a typo and its already understandable for me and yes its hindrance not hindrence. Cashless society would be possible but same as you said it would really took long time for it to be implemented since government would create such actions but people in the world got used to fiat currency physically.

[Reid]

I don't understand how cashless society could kill the Bitcoin. This has no sense because Bitcoin represents cashless society, it's digital currency that has no paper banknotes, it exists only virtualy. So Bitcoin can only profit from the cashless world but to my opinion we will have to wait for a while before cash disappears entirely.

Yeah I think that is the real point there.
Considering there are countries that haven't been upgraded with technology, bitcoin cannot be done there.
So those countries will just go on a rampage and might make something that will make bitcoin invaluable.
If ever a greater percentage of the world will be making huge updates with the way their transactions will work then it might work even if there will be some groups that will oppose it.

[bra4our]

Its the anonymity of bitcoin transaction that makes it very popular and keeps it going. Cashless society will not kill bitcoin its only it bitcoins doesnt become anonymous when people will stop using it.

[Wandering Soul~]

I don't understand how cashless society could kill the Bitcoin. This has no sense because Bitcoin represents cashless society, it's digital currency that has no paper banknotes, it exists only virtualy. So Bitcoin can only profit from the cashless world but to my opinion we will have to wait for a while before cash disappears entirely.

Yeah I think that is the real point there.
Considering there are countries that haven't been upgraded with technology, bitcoin cannot be done there.
So those countries will just go on a rampage and might make something that will make bitcoin invaluable.
If ever a greater percentage of the world will be making huge updates with the way their transactions will work then it might work even if there will be some groups that will oppose it.

A cashless society is just something thats too far to happen, I doubt that our generation will be able to witness it.  Don't worry, I think the government is not dumb enough to implement something that can't be used or might affect the economy . A cashless society will only be implemented if all countries agreed to it cause if its just a one or two, The economy will surely go down . If the cashless society ever happened, I'm sure there'll be a huge improvement on humanities technology and of course we should expect an internat connection worldwide (not just limited to someones house) for free .

[deisik]

I don't understand how cashless society could kill the Bitcoin. This has no sense because Bitcoin represents cashless society, it's digital currency that has no paper banknotes, it exists only virtualy. So Bitcoin can only profit from the cashless world but to my opinion we will have to wait for a while before cash disappears entirely.

Yeah I think that is the real point there.
Considering there are countries that haven't been upgraded with technology, bitcoin cannot be done there.
So those countries will just go on a rampage and might make something that will make bitcoin invaluable.
If ever a greater percentage of the world will be making huge updates with the way their transactions will work then it might work even if there will be some groups that will oppose it.

A cashless society is just something thats too far to happen, I doubt that our generation will be able to witness it.  Don't worry, I think the government is not dumb enough to implement something that can't be used or might affect the economy . A cashless society will only be implemented if all countries agreed to it cause if its just a one or two, The economy will surely go down . If the cashless society ever happened, I'm sure there'll be a huge improvement on humanities technology and of course we should expect an internat connection worldwide (not just limited to someones house) for free

The economy is already mostly cashless

So going totally cashless can't possibly make it any worse. In fact, cashless transfers made it possible to boost the economy since you don't have to wait when your counterparty from another part of the world brings you a pile of cash in half a year. Apart from that, you are obviously considering an extreme case with no paper money around altogether. But this is not what governments want because that would be prohibitively expensive to set up presently. And using payment cards (which basically serve to solve the "lat mile problem") are more handy overall than bills

[batang_bitcoin]

Its the anonymity of bitcoin transaction that makes it very popular and keeps it going. Cashless society will not kill bitcoin its only it bitcoins doesnt become anonymous when people will stop using it.

The same thing as what I'm thinking, cashless society won't kill bitcoin. Instead bitcoin will inspire for us to have cashless society. I knew it that this will happen but just like what is happening now. The people are starting to look for more convenient transactions and that is because of the start of crypto currency specifically with bitcoin, this will start the legacy of cashless society.

[RodeoX]

The more I think about it, a cashless society would be the greatest thing to ever happen to bitcoin. Other than cash, no option is as cheap, fast, and secure as bitcoin.  It would be the most preferred payment method on the planet.

Spoiler alert: Cash is not going away. 

[webtricks]

The more I think about it, a cashless society would be the greatest thing to ever happen to bitcoin. Other than cash, no option is as cheap, fast, and secure as bitcoin.  It would be the most preferred payment method on the planet.

I agree, instead of declaring cashless society to be bane for bitcoin, it is actually boon for it. It is not the form of currency but the concept of currency which distinguish fiat money and bitcoin. So a cashless society, in place of discouraging bitcoin movement, will help it by removing biggest obstacle in its path i.e. Digital Illiteracy. If person knows how to use money on mobile, etc., he will sure gonna know how to use Bitcoin.

[jak3]

well in india this scenario is happening in actual, government is taking actions so that everyone in country can go cashless, they are really working hard to develop each and every payment  method in India to become cashless even they changed the currency recently. they recently declared bitcoin ban in india because of the amount of people getting scammed but still we think bitcoin is needed for the society

[Betwrong]

well in india this scenario is happening in actual, government is taking actions so that everyone in country can go cashless, they are really working hard to develop each and every payment  method in India to become cashless even they changed the currency recently. they recently declared bitcoin ban in india because of the amount of people getting scammed but still we think bitcoin is needed for the society

A final decision about bitcoin’s legality will hardly be made even on April 20 when a special committee created by the Indian government will be discussing the subject. Right now Bitcoin buying, selling, trading or mining is not illegal by any law in India.

As for the cashless society, this will never happen, not in our lifetime anyway.

[olubams]

Over here, a new cashless policy has just being implemented where it becomes more expensive to hold cash but after a careful study of this, I dont see its effect on bitcoin simply because most of the trades concerning buying and selling or bitcoin still revolves around a cashless society where you dont collect raw cash rather bank transfer and same thing the cashless policy is proposing to the society...

[andrew24p]

Bitcoin's strength isnt in doing daily payments that I could use a credit card or in the future digital fiat currency for. Bitcoin's strength is in censorship resistance and store of value, things that the government would have a very hard time shutting down. If they wanted to, the most effective method would be to go after exchanges and making it impossible for any company to do business with them. The vast majority of people dont want to keep their money in bitcoin forever.

[BobK71]

We can only hope that by the time they consider bitcoin a real treat, our technology is robust enough, and private enough that we can bypass all the government 1984 tier surveillance. Make no mistake, it is only a matter of time until US, EUR China and Russia start banning bitcoin, some other places may follow. Governments hate to not have control of the monetary policy, they will not give up without a fight, so bitcoin and its community must remain strong in order for freedom to finally win.

Thanks for the encouragement, but I really believe that the top elites are smarter than to try to kill gold or Bitcoin.

As I mentioned originally, the elites themselves know better than others that their system is inherently unstable (because of the incentives it offers to the elites.)  So, yes, they try to manipulate things to create demand for their money and debt, and, yes, they will suppress gold (and probably Bitcoin too in future) to minimize the competition.

But, in the end, they realize that they need gold and Bitcoin.  If and when confidence collapses completely in their system, their last hope for keeping their power will be to peg their money to gold and/or Bitcoin.

Before imperial China went to physical silver, the country had lived through several centuries of paper money, and the entire monetary system was on the verge of collapse from inflation, even though the law was that anyone not using the state money was punishable by death.

[BobK71]

To address the original point on its own terms (i.e. the idea that if the government ends cash, there will be no anonymity in trading Bitcoin:)

We can take a lesson from major events in history.  During the postwar Bretton Woods period, Western countries had free trade with each other, but there were tight capital controls (to keep exchange rates constant.)  So an American could buy German goods, but couldn't buy German currency (marks) or bonds, for example.

What import/export traders did was to build personal relationships, and then, say, sell something worth $20,000 at the price of $25,000.  The extra $5000 the American paid was used by his German friend to buy German marks for him. (The German could legally exchange all the dollars he got for marks, as part of the free trade system.)  And they would of course do this for themselves as well as wealthy people trying to bypass the capital controls.

The same thing has been happening with China.  So China's attempts to control capital flight is also leaky.  And I'm pretty sure many poor countries who trade with the West would love to stop their citizens from buying dollars and euros with their own currencies, but can't, because an importer can legally buy just a little more dollars than is really needed, after his American exporter friend increases the invoice price a little.

Take this to the personal level -- when all money is electronic, I pay my friend the shopkeeper $25 to buy something really worth $20.  For the extra $5, my friend will move some Bitcoin from an (already anonymous) Bitcoin address to my own anonymous address.  Thus, a market and price system for Bitcoin is born.

(This is a big topic in monetary economics.  The economists have basically concluded that 'if countries open up their current accounts, it's impossible to keep their capital accounts closed for long.')

[HarringtonStark]

I theorize that the payment method would be by a chip worn as a bracelet and you sync it to a scanner and the transaction is complete. It will then be embedded in the human body, fusing man and machines. Bitcoin will still exist and there would be such wearable hardware wallets. There would still be companies who exchange bitcoins for electric fiat currency.

[Monnt]

To address the original point on its own terms (i.e. the idea that if the government ends cash, there will be no anonymity in trading Bitcoin:)

We can take a lesson from major events in history.  During the postwar Bretton Woods period, Western countries had free trade with each other, but there were tight capital controls (to keep exchange rates constant.)  So an American could buy German goods, but couldn't buy German currency (marks) or bonds, for example.

What import/export traders did was to build personal relationships, and then, say, sell something worth $20,000 at the price of $25,000.  The extra $5000 the American paid was used by his German friend to buy German marks for him. (The German could legally exchange all the dollars he got for marks, as part of the free trade system.)  And they would of course do this for themselves as well as wealthy people trying to bypass the capital controls.

The same thing has been happening with China.  So China's attempts to control capital flight is also leaky.  And I'm pretty sure many poor countries who trade with the West would love to stop their citizens from buying dollars and euros with their own currencies, but can't, because an importer can legally buy just a little more dollars than is really needed, after his American exporter friend increases the invoice price a little.

Take this to the personal level -- when all money is electronic, I pay my friend the shopkeeper $25 to buy something really worth $20.  For the extra $5, my friend will move some Bitcoin from an (already anonymous) Bitcoin address to my own anonymous address.  Thus, a market and price system for Bitcoin is born.

(This is a big topic in monetary economics.  The economists have basically concluded that 'if countries open up their current accounts, it's impossible to keep their capital accounts closed for long.')

So what I think if the world stops using cash and go back to the old days just like you said, is that everyone will race to get as much as the y can with any way possible to get the current way to pay for things just to dominate the world and become the most powerful, and that is going to create a conflict which will lead to war, kind of what is happening to oil right now, countries rush to get as much as they can from it.

[CODE200]

Well definitely a cashless society will totally kill bitcoin because we all knew that money is involved even not in a real time it would be much easier to attract or invite a single person to be part of any online transaction businesses and bitcoin is one of an online part time full time business transaction.