jasemoney
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1008
Forget-about-it
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
June 20, 2017, 01:55:44 AM |
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It is my understanding that if you bought the Monero with BTC then you have not made a conversion to fiat and it is not a taxable event. Best: George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThis is brilliant and the first time that I've seen a good answer on the crypto -> crypto currency conversion. Just to break this down further let's say someone does the following: 1) Acquire DCR (so cost basis is $10) 2) Trades the DCR for BTC after 1 year 3) Trades the BTC for ETH within 1 week 4) After 1 week sells the ETH for $500 Using the concept of "like kind" transaction is the only taxable event (4), when you convert the crypto over to $ for a profit of $490? Also since the period from (1) to (4) is >1 year is it seen as long-term capital gains? thanks! I appreciate the question and example however I am not a tax attorney and am not a CPA. You will have to go to one of them to figure this one out. Best: GDG
For what its worth, I did hire a tax advisor who specializes in cryptocurrencies and we used bitcoin.tax to compute the gain on every trade imported from all the exchanges I use, and manually input for ICO's and mining. The person i hired had done research and their conclusion was that like kind if you were to file that way may slide under the radar but probably would not hold up in court. so we did the damn thing and i paid on gains for every trade whether it ended the year as fiat or not. it sucked but conscience is clear and the government is paid.
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$MAID & $BTC other than that some short hodls and some long held garbage.
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achillez
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June 23, 2017, 02:07:20 AM |
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It is my understanding that if you bought the Monero with BTC then you have not made a conversion to fiat and it is not a taxable event. Best: George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThis is brilliant and the first time that I've seen a good answer on the crypto -> crypto currency conversion. Just to break this down further let's say someone does the following: 1) Acquire DCR (so cost basis is $10) 2) Trades the DCR for BTC after 1 year 3) Trades the BTC for ETH within 1 week 4) After 1 week sells the ETH for $500 Using the concept of "like kind" transaction is the only taxable event (4), when you convert the crypto over to $ for a profit of $490? Also since the period from (1) to (4) is >1 year is it seen as long-term capital gains? thanks! I appreciate the question and example however I am not a tax attorney and am not a CPA. You will have to go to one of them to figure this one out. Best: GDG
For what its worth, I did hire a tax advisor who specializes in cryptocurrencies and we used bitcoin.tax to compute the gain on every trade imported from all the exchanges I use, and manually input for ICO's and mining. The person i hired had done research and their conclusion was that like kind if you were to file that way may slide under the radar but probably would not hold up in court. so we did the damn thing and i paid on gains for every trade whether it ended the year as fiat or not. it sucked but conscience is clear and the government is paid. Did he say why it wouldn't hold up in court? It makes complete sense that crypto -> crypto is like kind. I searched the web - didn't find much but did find this article --> https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/74789/do-altcoin-trades-count-as-like-kind-exchanges-deferred-capital-gains-tax/81117#81117Btw, unless there's a short-term --> long-term difference the like-kind vs. not taxes should be near equivalent.
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jmh2267
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
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July 06, 2017, 12:23:46 PM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 07, 2017, 07:27:43 AM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
It is not illegal to take USD and invest in stocks for yourself. The source of your money should be legal of course. If you are investing cash for other people you then have legal and regulatory issues that must be addressed. As to the underlying crypto hedge fund, this really depends upon the amounts of money and the persons you are dealing with. There are AML/KYC issues with FinCEN. There may be state money transmission issues is you are dealing in cash at all. Even if you are only dealing in BTC/ETH and the like you must protect yourself from AML issues by registering with FinCEN and making a good faith effort to collect identities where needed and to report when required. You will of course be on safer ground as to money transmission laws if your hedgefund is opened with purely crypto and dividends paid purely in crypto and you are in a state that does not regulate that. Finally you are going to have banking issues. But everyone has that. I hope I answered your question. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.com
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jmh2267
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 07, 2017, 12:17:36 PM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
It is not illegal to take USD and invest in stocks for yourself. The source of your money should be legal of course. If you are investing cash for other people you then have legal and regulatory issues that must be addressed. As to the underlying crypto hedge fund, this really depends upon the amounts of money and the persons you are dealing with. There are AML/KYC issues with FinCEN. There may be state money transmission issues is you are dealing in cash at all. Even if you are only dealing in BTC/ETH and the like you must protect yourself from AML issues by registering with FinCEN and making a good faith effort to collect identities where needed and to report when required. You will of course be on safer ground as to money transmission laws if your hedgefund is opened with purely crypto and dividends paid purely in crypto and you are in a state that does not regulate that. Finally you are going to have banking issues. But everyone has that. I hope I answered your question. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThank you very much for the informative response. Just to be clear, as far as you know, it is legal to invest USD raised from a token sale into the US stock market as long as the fund is registered with FinCen and complies with AML/KYC regulation?
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 07, 2017, 04:26:26 PM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
It is not illegal to take USD and invest in stocks for yourself. The source of your money should be legal of course. If you are investing cash for other people you then have legal and regulatory issues that must be addressed. As to the underlying crypto hedge fund, this really depends upon the amounts of money and the persons you are dealing with. There are AML/KYC issues with FinCEN. There may be state money transmission issues is you are dealing in cash at all. Even if you are only dealing in BTC/ETH and the like you must protect yourself from AML issues by registering with FinCEN and making a good faith effort to collect identities where needed and to report when required. You will of course be on safer ground as to money transmission laws if your hedgefund is opened with purely crypto and dividends paid purely in crypto and you are in a state that does not regulate that. Finally you are going to have banking issues. But everyone has that. I hope I answered your question. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThank you very much for the informative response. Just to be clear, as far as you know, it is legal to invest USD raised from a token sale into the US stock market as long as the fund is registered with FinCen and complies with AML/KYC regulation? Are you trying to pin me down to a legal conclusion? Tell me, are you going to point a finger at me if my advice turns out not to be 100% correct? If you are going to manage others money and be an investor then you need to hire an attorney so you can get your "Just to be clear...." answers. I give only general advice here. In general, it's just not that simple. Sorry but we are in the real world and the real world is complex. That is why attorneys and CPA's devote much of their lives to understanding the complexities, then people pay them for advice they can rely upon. I'm beginning to tire of readers who think they are somehow entitled to have all of their problems solved without doing their own research and paying their way to solve the more complex issues. I don't mind your general questions but your "Just to be clear...." is a sign to me that you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is, all the while wanting to make money from other people's investments in you. IN GENERAL SIR, you need to be careful about the sources of your token income as well as declaring any income on your taxes once you have converted the tokens to dollars (hint...hire a CPA.) In addition you need to be mindful of state regulations as to money transmission. Another looming issue here is whether or not this new breed of crypto fund owner/managers needs to send out 1099's. When regulators catch up they may very well have to do so. To all readers; these issues cannot be simplified to a few words. There are no magic solutions as these areas of regulation and taxation are constantly evolving. George D. Greenberg, Esq. 7674 W. Lake Mead Blvd Suite 245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 www.attorneybitcoin.com
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JohnBitCo
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 09, 2017, 09:29:00 AM |
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Just spoke with another member and you need to watch for his post here, this guy has a few things going on at his local area that you guys will find very interesting. Take a look and do your own research on this attorney, especially in his local district
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darkangel11
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1358
Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 09, 2017, 08:40:31 PM |
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Just spoke with another member and you need to watch for his post here, this guy has a few things going on at his local area that you guys will find very interesting. Take a look and do your own research on this attorney, especially in his local district
Watch out, you might be starting something here ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Taken from George's website: This is a relatively small community and it only takes one or two harsh comments from credible players to hurt a business.Now, seriously, he's giving free legal advice and fishing for clients at the same time. Just business. All fine by me.
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| | . .Duelbits. | │ | ..........UNLEASH.......... THE ULTIMATE GAMING EXPERIENCE | │ | DUELBITS FANTASY SPORTS | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ████████████████▀▀▀ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | . ▬▬ VS ▬▬ | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | /// PLAY FOR FREE /// WIN FOR REAL | │ | ..PLAY NOW.. | |
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 10, 2017, 04:52:00 AM |
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Just spoke with another member and you need to watch for his post here, this guy has a few things going on at his local area that you guys will find very interesting. Take a look and do your own research on this attorney, especially in his local district
Really? How very cryptic. If you have anything you want to talk to me about please come to my office at 7674 W. Lake Mead Blvd. #245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 and say it to me face to face, man to man, or call me at 702 796 5221. I have no idea what you are referring to. My reputation is solid and I am an established 25 year attorney. If you have something to say come out and say it. Otherwise, please refrain from vague statements. And by the way, yes, please everyone research me. Unlike the statement above I put myself out there and am accountable for my statements and actions. George D. Greenberg, Esq.
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 10, 2017, 04:56:43 AM |
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Just spoke with another member and you need to watch for his post here, this guy has a few things going on at his local area that you guys will find very interesting. Take a look and do your own research on this attorney, especially in his local district
Watch out, you might be starting something here ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Taken from George's website: This is a relatively small community and it only takes one or two harsh comments from credible players to hurt a business.Now, seriously, he's giving free legal advice and fishing for clients at the same time. Just business. All fine by me. Thank you Sir. Not only have I given free advice from this site but from people who have called from my web site. I have done so for the past 2 years. I have paid my dues, contributed to the community and have earned the right to charge for my time and advice which has kept many out of trouble and saved many more, thousands of dollars. Respectfully: GDG
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jmh2267
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 10, 2017, 07:08:38 AM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
It is not illegal to take USD and invest in stocks for yourself. The source of your money should be legal of course. If you are investing cash for other people you then have legal and regulatory issues that must be addressed. As to the underlying crypto hedge fund, this really depends upon the amounts of money and the persons you are dealing with. There are AML/KYC issues with FinCEN. There may be state money transmission issues is you are dealing in cash at all. Even if you are only dealing in BTC/ETH and the like you must protect yourself from AML issues by registering with FinCEN and making a good faith effort to collect identities where needed and to report when required. You will of course be on safer ground as to money transmission laws if your hedgefund is opened with purely crypto and dividends paid purely in crypto and you are in a state that does not regulate that. Finally you are going to have banking issues. But everyone has that. I hope I answered your question. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThank you very much for the informative response. Just to be clear, as far as you know, it is legal to invest USD raised from a token sale into the US stock market as long as the fund is registered with FinCen and complies with AML/KYC regulation? Are you trying to pin me down to a legal conclusion? Tell me, are you going to point a finger at me if my advice turns out not to be 100% correct? If you are going to manage others money and be an investor then you need to hire an attorney so you can get your "Just to be clear...." answers. I give only general advice here. In general, it's just not that simple. Sorry but we are in the real world and the real world is complex. That is why attorneys and CPA's devote much of their lives to understanding the complexities, then people pay them for advice they can rely upon. I'm beginning to tire of readers who think they are somehow entitled to have all of their problems solved without doing their own research and paying their way to solve the more complex issues. I don't mind your general questions but your "Just to be clear...." is a sign to me that you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is, all the while wanting to make money from other people's investments in you. IN GENERAL SIR, you need to be careful about the sources of your token income as well as declaring any income on your taxes once you have converted the tokens to dollars (hint...hire a CPA.) In addition you need to be mindful of state regulations as to money transmission. Another looming issue here is whether or not this new breed of crypto fund owner/managers needs to send out 1099's. When regulators catch up they may very well have to do so. To all readers; these issues cannot be simplified to a few words. There are no magic solutions as these areas of regulation and taxation are constantly evolving. George D. Greenberg, Esq. 7674 W. Lake Mead Blvd Suite 245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 www.attorneybitcoin.comI'm really uncertain about the connotation you seem to give to "just to be clear." I was simply clarifying your advice. Certainly, I was not and am not going to be taking any of your advice as matter of fact. Of course I wouldn't as you are merely a "bitcoin" lawyer behind a screen somewhere who knows...
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JohnBitCo
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 10, 2017, 04:08:48 PM |
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Just spoke with another member and you need to watch for his post here, this guy has a few things going on at his local area that you guys will find very interesting. Take a look and do your own research on this attorney, especially in his local district
Really? How very cryptic. If you have anything you want to talk to me about please come to my office at 7674 W. Lake Mead Blvd. #245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 and say it to me face to face, man to man, or call me at 702 796 5221. I have no idea what you are referring to. My reputation is solid and I am an established 25 year attorney. If you have something to say come out and say it. Otherwise, please refrain from vague statements. And by the way, yes, please everyone research me. Unlike the statement above I put myself out there and am accountable for my statements and actions. George D. Greenberg, Esq. Just a heads up, and I have said nothing bad here, just to check things out for yourself and make your own choices based on what you find out about anyone and his personal business dealings. I am just saying for those who have not deal with you yet that do your own research and you can't go wrong from there. As far as i am concern, recently do not need any legal advice, but when i do, i will surely consult you because i think you are providing good services.
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 10, 2017, 08:34:42 PM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
It is not illegal to take USD and invest in stocks for yourself. The source of your money should be legal of course. If you are investing cash for other people you then have legal and regulatory issues that must be addressed. As to the underlying crypto hedge fund, this really depends upon the amounts of money and the persons you are dealing with. There are AML/KYC issues with FinCEN. There may be state money transmission issues is you are dealing in cash at all. Even if you are only dealing in BTC/ETH and the like you must protect yourself from AML issues by registering with FinCEN and making a good faith effort to collect identities where needed and to report when required. You will of course be on safer ground as to money transmission laws if your hedgefund is opened with purely crypto and dividends paid purely in crypto and you are in a state that does not regulate that. Finally you are going to have banking issues. But everyone has that. I hope I answered your question. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThank you very much for the informative response. Just to be clear, as far as you know, it is legal to invest USD raised from a token sale into the US stock market as long as the fund is registered with FinCen and complies with AML/KYC regulation? Are you trying to pin me down to a legal conclusion? Tell me, are you going to point a finger at me if my advice turns out not to be 100% correct? If you are going to manage others money and be an investor then you need to hire an attorney so you can get your "Just to be clear...." answers. I give only general advice here. In general, it's just not that simple. Sorry but we are in the real world and the real world is complex. That is why attorneys and CPA's devote much of their lives to understanding the complexities, then people pay them for advice they can rely upon. I'm beginning to tire of readers who think they are somehow entitled to have all of their problems solved without doing their own research and paying their way to solve the more complex issues. I don't mind your general questions but your "Just to be clear...." is a sign to me that you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is, all the while wanting to make money from other people's investments in you. IN GENERAL SIR, you need to be careful about the sources of your token income as well as declaring any income on your taxes once you have converted the tokens to dollars (hint...hire a CPA.) In addition you need to be mindful of state regulations as to money transmission. Another looming issue here is whether or not this new breed of crypto fund owner/managers needs to send out 1099's. When regulators catch up they may very well have to do so. To all readers; these issues cannot be simplified to a few words. There are no magic solutions as these areas of regulation and taxation are constantly evolving. George D. Greenberg, Esq. 7674 W. Lake Mead Blvd Suite 245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 www.attorneybitcoin.comI'm really uncertain about the connotation you seem to give to "just to be clear." I was simply clarifying your advice. Certainly, I was not and am not going to be taking any of your advice as matter of fact. Of course I wouldn't as you are merely a "bitcoin" lawyer behind a screen somewhere who knows... I do not hide behind any screen Sir. You may see me in person at 7674 West Lake Mead #245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 or call me at 702 796 5221 anytime. I'm here every day of the week.
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KGambler
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 14, 2017, 08:59:38 PM |
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Thank you for doing this. Free information from a knowledgeable professional is much appreciated.
I have read that many states require that a bitcoin seller be licensed and bonded as a money transmitter. With regards to my particular state, New Jersey, my googling has failed to turn up any such information.
My questions:
1. Assuming that NJ does not yet require a seller to be a licensed money transmitter, does this mean that anyone could set themselves up as a buyer/reseller?
2. How would you recommend going about finding out what the relevant laws are for my state? What type of agency would have the information?
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mammabitcoin2u
Sr. Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Don't follow the herd~make your own path
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 14, 2017, 11:54:58 PM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
It is not illegal to take USD and invest in stocks for yourself. The source of your money should be legal of course. If you are investing cash for other people you then have legal and regulatory issues that must be addressed. As to the underlying crypto hedge fund, this really depends upon the amounts of money and the persons you are dealing with. There are AML/KYC issues with FinCEN. There may be state money transmission issues is you are dealing in cash at all. Even if you are only dealing in BTC/ETH and the like you must protect yourself from AML issues by registering with FinCEN and making a good faith effort to collect identities where needed and to report when required. You will of course be on safer ground as to money transmission laws if your hedgefund is opened with purely crypto and dividends paid purely in crypto and you are in a state that does not regulate that. Finally you are going to have banking issues. But everyone has that. I hope I answered your question. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThank you very much for the informative response. Just to be clear, as far as you know, it is legal to invest USD raised from a token sale into the US stock market as long as the fund is registered with FinCen and complies with AML/KYC regulation? Are you trying to pin me down to a legal conclusion? Tell me, are you going to point a finger at me if my advice turns out not to be 100% correct? If you are going to manage others money and be an investor then you need to hire an attorney so you can get your "Just to be clear...." answers. I give only general advice here. In general, it's just not that simple. Sorry but we are in the real world and the real world is complex. That is why attorneys and CPA's devote much of their lives to understanding the complexities, then people pay them for advice they can rely upon. I'm beginning to tire of readers who think they are somehow entitled to have all of their problems solved without doing their own research and paying their way to solve the more complex issues. I don't mind your general questions but your "Just to be clear...." is a sign to me that you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is, all the while wanting to make money from other people's investments in you. IN GENERAL SIR, you need to be careful about the sources of your token income as well as declaring any income on your taxes once you have converted the tokens to dollars (hint...hire a CPA.) In addition you need to be mindful of state regulations as to money transmission. Another looming issue here is whether or not this new breed of crypto fund owner/managers needs to send out 1099's. When regulators catch up they may very well have to do so. To all readers; these issues cannot be simplified to a few words. There are no magic solutions as these areas of regulation and taxation are constantly evolving. George D. Greenberg, Esq. 7674 W. Lake Mead Blvd Suite 245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 www.attorneybitcoin.comI'm really uncertain about the connotation you seem to give to "just to be clear." I was simply clarifying your advice. Certainly, I was not and am not going to be taking any of your advice as matter of fact. Of course I wouldn't as you are merely a "bitcoin" lawyer behind a screen somewhere who knows... I do not hide behind any screen Sir. You may see me in person at 7674 West Lake Mead #245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 or call me at 702 796 5221 anytime. I'm here every day of the week. There's always someone around the corner looking to discredit someone ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) @JohnBitCo AttorneyBitcoin/GDG- Nice to see you offering some helpful advice to the forum and for FREE?!! Thanks again and Best Wishes in your practice.
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TheGodson
Full Member
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Offline
Activity: 383
Merit: 161
https://nitrogensports.eu/r/4896627
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
July 15, 2017, 06:42:35 AM |
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Hi George,
I'm interested in starting up a website where people can gamble with bitcoins. The game is similar to a "heads or tails" game. In my website there is no specific account where people sign up for. When they want to bet they send their money to one bitcoin address for "heads" and another for "tails". At the end of the week one side wins and the other side loses. The winning side gets slightly shy of double their money. The losing side gets nothing. I collect the remainder.
Since Bitcoin isn't technically recognized by the US as a currency does this even count as gambling? I live in Michigan if that changes anything.
1) Is this legal? 2) If it is illegal what are the consequences and likelihood of those consequences occurring?
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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July 15, 2017, 07:15:39 AM |
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First of all, thank you very much for hosting this forum. I find it very helpful.
My question is, lets say I have a fund with which I raise money in Bitcoin, Ethereum or other altcoins. I issue shares of the fund to the investors who will then get dividends from my fund (think hedgefund) Can I use the money raised in crypto, convert it to USD and invest it on the stock market? In other words, are you aware of any regulation which prohibits you from investing in the stock market with funds raised from cryptocurrency?
Thanks a lot
It is not illegal to take USD and invest in stocks for yourself. The source of your money should be legal of course. If you are investing cash for other people you then have legal and regulatory issues that must be addressed. As to the underlying crypto hedge fund, this really depends upon the amounts of money and the persons you are dealing with. There are AML/KYC issues with FinCEN. There may be state money transmission issues is you are dealing in cash at all. Even if you are only dealing in BTC/ETH and the like you must protect yourself from AML issues by registering with FinCEN and making a good faith effort to collect identities where needed and to report when required. You will of course be on safer ground as to money transmission laws if your hedgefund is opened with purely crypto and dividends paid purely in crypto and you are in a state that does not regulate that. Finally you are going to have banking issues. But everyone has that. I hope I answered your question. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.comThank you very much for the informative response. Just to be clear, as far as you know, it is legal to invest USD raised from a token sale into the US stock market as long as the fund is registered with FinCen and complies with AML/KYC regulation? Are you trying to pin me down to a legal conclusion? Tell me, are you going to point a finger at me if my advice turns out not to be 100% correct? If you are going to manage others money and be an investor then you need to hire an attorney so you can get your "Just to be clear...." answers. I give only general advice here. In general, it's just not that simple. Sorry but we are in the real world and the real world is complex. That is why attorneys and CPA's devote much of their lives to understanding the complexities, then people pay them for advice they can rely upon. I'm beginning to tire of readers who think they are somehow entitled to have all of their problems solved without doing their own research and paying their way to solve the more complex issues. I don't mind your general questions but your "Just to be clear...." is a sign to me that you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is, all the while wanting to make money from other people's investments in you. IN GENERAL SIR, you need to be careful about the sources of your token income as well as declaring any income on your taxes once you have converted the tokens to dollars (hint...hire a CPA.) In addition you need to be mindful of state regulations as to money transmission. Another looming issue here is whether or not this new breed of crypto fund owner/managers needs to send out 1099's. When regulators catch up they may very well have to do so. To all readers; these issues cannot be simplified to a few words. There are no magic solutions as these areas of regulation and taxation are constantly evolving. George D. Greenberg, Esq. 7674 W. Lake Mead Blvd Suite 245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 www.attorneybitcoin.comI'm really uncertain about the connotation you seem to give to "just to be clear." I was simply clarifying your advice. Certainly, I was not and am not going to be taking any of your advice as matter of fact. Of course I wouldn't as you are merely a "bitcoin" lawyer behind a screen somewhere who knows... I do not hide behind any screen Sir. You may see me in person at 7674 West Lake Mead #245 Las Vegas, Nevada 89128 or call me at 702 796 5221 anytime. I'm here every day of the week. There's always someone around the corner looking to discredit someone ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) @JohnBitCo AttorneyBitcoin/GDG- Nice to see you offering some helpful advice to the forum and for FREE?!! Thanks again and Best Wishes in your practice. Thank you for the kind and supportive words of appreciation. Best: GDG
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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July 15, 2017, 07:23:05 AM |
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Hi George,
I'm interested in starting up a website where people can gamble with bitcoins. The game is similar to a "heads or tails" game. In my website there is no specific account where people sign up for. When they want to bet they send their money to one bitcoin address for "heads" and another for "tails". At the end of the week one side wins and the other side loses. The winning side gets slightly shy of double their money. The losing side gets nothing. I collect the remainder.
Since Bitcoin isn't technically recognized by the US as a currency does this even count as gambling? I live in Michigan if that changes anything.
1) Is this legal? 2) If it is illegal what are the consequences and likelihood of those consequences occurring?
Dear TheGodson: Sure, it's legal if gaming is legal in your state and you have a gaming license in your state and you limit the wagering to people in your state. That is unlikely so the answers are: 1) It is probably illegal, and; 2)You can face criminal prosecution. I'm sorry I don't have better news for you. If you want to explore a gaming site online you might look into my home State of Nevada. You would have to live here though, get a gaming license here, and limit the gaming to in-state wagering. Honestly it doesn't sound very promising. Keep looking for opportunities to make use of Bitcoin and other cryptos in business and best of luck to you Sir. George D. Greenberg, Esq. www.attorneybitcoin.com
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mrmimer
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July 15, 2017, 07:09:45 PM |
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Dear BTC/Crypto Legal Forum: As an experienced BTC attorney I'm happy to answer all questions here. I have noticed some misinformation in some answers here. When it comes to taxes, laws and regulations, guessing or opinions are not helpful and can easily lead to problems. Most solutions to all the questions here can be summed up in a few short answers. I can only give legal advice to laws in the United States but can discuss other countries in general terms. I've been involved as an attorney and a miner in BTC and Crypto's for 3 years. During that time I have represented many client's involved in our crypto world. Happy Mining! George D. Greenberg, Esq. AttorneyBitcoin Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A. www.attorneybitcoin.comHi! I was wondering if you could put me in the right direction here. Seeing as you are an actual attorney is a plus, seeing that you are located in Las Vegas makes you seem even more qualified to answer my question! So I am part of a small team (people who work at facebook/fitbit/salesforce) that is developing a new gambling based cryptocurrency. My question is, is how do we go about incorporating a business offshore for the purpose of accepting payments through our ICO? Is that even necessary and should we just incorporate in Nevada seeing as cryptocurrenices are not securities but personal property? Thank you for your time, I appreciate it, and we would love to talk to you more as a team if you would be willing to give us of it outside of replying to my post right now.
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AttorneyBitcoin (OP)
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July 15, 2017, 08:32:10 PM |
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Your questions will require in depth discussions. Please PM me. Thank you for writing.
George Greenberg
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