Bitcoin to hit +$10,000 on Bitstamp this weekend...

[Dragonkiller]

I've gone all BTC and transferred out for this reason. Probably unnecessary, but I'd rather play it safe.

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[theonewhowaskazu]

Any updates here? Once again CNBC is magically ignoring it, if this wont affect BTC price, then it definately will affect (for the worse) my XIV. Want to get out of there before the shit accidentally hits the fan.

[sickpig]

I've gone all BTC and transferred out for this reason. Probably unnecessary, but I'd rather play it safe.

I did the same, better to be on the safe side.

[ringsting]

Bummer I transferred 10k to BS an hour before reading this.  Last time I got same day processing, hope I can get it out quickly enough.

[kwest]

Latest news:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/12/markets--fed-tapering-slovenia-bank-clean-up-business-live


In its new report, just released, Slovenia's central bank gives some details of the €4.758bn cost of cleaning up the banking sector of its bad debts.

The country's biggest three banks need €3.12bn, which will be paid through government funds and bonds.

Another five banks need a total of €1.6bn - and have been given until June 2014 to raise the funds on the private markets.

Slovenia's central bank also said that the operation will take the country's national debt to 75.6% of GDP.

[knarzo]

Jörg Asmussen, a member of the executive board of the ECB, stated that if required a troubled bank needs to shut down over a weekend. Slovenian banking stress test incoming  

http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2013/12/11/asmussen-bank-muss-ueber-wochenende-abgewickelt-werden-koennen/

[kwest]

Slovenia's smaller lenders are starting to announce how much money they'll need to raise, under the recapitalisation plan being announced this morning.

Unicredit Slovenia needs an additional €14m.

[knarzo]

Unicredit Slovenia needs an additional €14m.

That's not that bad Austrian Hypo Alpe-Adria has ~€25bn of NPLs..

[thehun]

Just ic case, I've also taken all my $ and coins out

[kwest]

Seeing as I don't want to hold any more bitcoin while we are still in a downtrend, and I don't want to wait for the SEPA withdrawal process on Bitstamp, I've decided to sell some BTC through localbitcoins - and after every sale, immediately buy the same amount of BTC back at stamp with the dollars I have there. Hopefully I'll be able to get a decent amount of fiat out that way.

[oda.krell]

Seriously, this is getting real old. If the overall level of economic knowledge of your average BTC investor is really that superficial, I'm not too impressed...

I'm going to quote myself, because I've written the following summary over and over again in the past month(s), and it still applies:

[...]

1) Slovenia =/= Cyprus. Seriously, it's a worthwhile discussion to go through the details, but for several reasons I don't see Slovenia at a real risk for a "bail in". To name a few: bigger country, higher risk of domino effect. less foreign account holders than cyprus to my knowledge. EU already made an example of Cyprus.

2) even in cyprus, there was no "all banks bail in", I hope people know that. In particular this means that Unicredit Slovenia, a subsidiary of the Italian Unicredit, is nowhere near the level of risk of the Slovenian *state banks*, that are the main cause of the problem the Slovenian banking landscape faces.

That said, if you want to be safe, convert to btc. If you want to be really safe, withdraw those coins. Personally, I don't think it's necessary though.

Especially point 2) is something that is completely ignored, every single time this discussion comes up. Think what you want about how the EU handled Cyprus (disclosure: I think they did the right thing, all things considered), but the bail-in did *not* affect all Cypriot banks. So very little indicates that Unicredit Slovenia would be affected by a (far from certain) bail-in in Slovenia.

[oda.krell]

I think the same. If you want to be on the safe side just keep max 100000 euros on your account. In Cyprus they didn't touch the accounts below that amount.

Correct. And: Only holders at Laiki Bank and Bank of Cyprus were affected, the two banks that caused the entire crisis.

[kwest]

Seriously, this is getting real old. If the overall level of economic knowledge of your average BTC investor is really that superficial, I'm not too impressed...

Well, yes. In the grand scheme of things I'm a beginner, especially when it comes to things like bailouts/ins etc.. which leads to uncertainty when I have difficulty knowing if my interpretation of the information is correct. When it came out that Unicredit would only need 14 million, I felt better. But even in the light of that, I didn't trust myself enough to draw any final conclusions.

As a newbie I'm grateful for people like you though.. and you should rightfully not be impressed by me. Not at all.

[Dragonkiller]

Seriously, this is getting real old. If the overall level of economic knowledge of your average BTC investor is really that superficial, I'm not too impressed...

I'm going to quote myself, because I've written the following summary over and over again in the past month(s), and it still applies:

[...]

1) Slovenia =/= Cyprus. Seriously, it's a worthwhile discussion to go through the details, but for several reasons I don't see Slovenia at a real risk for a "bail in". To name a few: bigger country, higher risk of domino effect. less foreign account holders than cyprus to my knowledge. EU already made an example of Cyprus.

2) even in cyprus, there was no "all banks bail in", I hope people know that. In particular this means that Unicredit Slovenia, a subsidiary of the Italian Unicredit, is nowhere near the level of risk of the Slovenian *state banks*, that are the main cause of the problem the Slovenian banking landscape faces.

That said, if you want to be safe, convert to btc. If you want to be really safe, withdraw those coins. Personally, I don't think it's necessary though.

Especially point 2) is something that is completely ignored, every single time this discussion comes up. Think what you want about how the EU handled Cyprus (disclosure: I think they did the right thing, all things considered), but the bail-in did *not* affect all Cypriot banks. So very little indicates that Unicredit Slovenia would be affected by a (far from certain) bail-in in Slovenia.

I think the same. If you want to be on the safe side just keep max 100000 euros on your account. In Cyprus they didn't touch the accounts below that amount.

Do you think Bitstamp has an individual account for each customer? No. They have one account which probably has millions of dollars.

[kwest]

Do you think Bitstamp has an individual account for each customer? No. They have one account which probably has millions of dollars.

See, now I feel uncertain again. It's very hard for someone like me to come to any hard conclusions... leading to "better safe than sorry" = cashing out.

[Dragonkiller]

Do you think Bitstamp has an individual account for each customer? No. They have one account which probably has millions of dollars.

See, now I feel uncertain again. It's very hard for someone like me to come to any hard conclusions... leading to "better safe than sorry" = cashing out.

I agree the risk is negligible, but if it's something that you can easily avoid, I don't know why anyone would take the risk.

[Dragonkiller]

Seriously, this is getting real old. If the overall level of economic knowledge of your average BTC investor is really that superficial, I'm not too impressed...

I'm going to quote myself, because I've written the following summary over and over again in the past month(s), and it still applies:

[...]

1) Slovenia =/= Cyprus. Seriously, it's a worthwhile discussion to go through the details, but for several reasons I don't see Slovenia at a real risk for a "bail in". To name a few: bigger country, higher risk of domino effect. less foreign account holders than cyprus to my knowledge. EU already made an example of Cyprus.

2) even in cyprus, there was no "all banks bail in", I hope people know that. In particular this means that Unicredit Slovenia, a subsidiary of the Italian Unicredit, is nowhere near the level of risk of the Slovenian *state banks*, that are the main cause of the problem the Slovenian banking landscape faces.

That said, if you want to be safe, convert to btc. If you want to be really safe, withdraw those coins. Personally, I don't think it's necessary though.

Especially point 2) is something that is completely ignored, every single time this discussion comes up. Think what you want about how the EU handled Cyprus (disclosure: I think they did the right thing, all things considered), but the bail-in did *not* affect all Cypriot banks. So very little indicates that Unicredit Slovenia would be affected by a (far from certain) bail-in in Slovenia.

I think the same. If you want to be on the safe side just keep max 100000 euros on your account. In Cyprus they didn't touch the accounts below that amount.

Do you think Bitstamp has an individual account for each customer? No. They have one account which probably has millions of dollars.

You might be right on this one. But still I don't see any bail-ins in Slovenia. They (the troika or whatever their name is) know that it would start a catastrophic bankrun in Europe.

Yeah I agree the risk is small, but it's still a risk you can avoid. There's a thread on the forum here, someone had around 700k euros taken from their account in Cyprus. Their lawyer, accountant etc had advised them that their money was safe.

[oda.krell]

Seriously, this is getting real old. If the overall level of economic knowledge of your average BTC investor is really that superficial, I'm not too impressed...

Well, yes. In the grand scheme of things I'm a beginner, especially when it comes to things like bailouts/ins etc.. which leads to uncertainty when I have difficulty knowing if my interpretation of the information is correct. When it came out that Unicredit would only need 14 million, I felt better. But even in the light of that, I didn't trust myself enough to draw any final conclusions.

As a newbie I'm grateful for people like you though.. and you should rightfully not be impressed by me. Not at all.

Apologies for sounding grumpy. :/


To summarize: it's never wrong to be safe (convert to btc, take them out), but realistically, there's a low chance that Unicredit account(s) will be hit by anything in the near future.

[meanig]

Panic over then. The government decided that general tax payers should foot the 4 billion euro bill rather than specific bank depositors. I'm aware that penalising Unicredit depositors would make little economic or moral sense, but equally it makes no sense for general tax payers to foot the bill either. I guess the government sensed general tax payers would take it up the ass without too much complaining.

Sending 4 billion euro into a banking black hole equates to 2000 euro per person or 10% of GDP. Can anyone from Slovenia comment on the mood of the people after the announcement. Are they relieved that their deposits are safe or are they fuming about the 4 billion euro bill?

Finally, as a loyal Bitstamp customer I'd like to thank all Slovenian tax payers for keeping my favourite exchange open for business 

[gotmilk_]

Panic over then. The government decided that general tax payers should foot the 4 billion euro bill rather than specific bank depositors. I'm aware that penalising Unicredit depositors would make little economic or moral sense, but equally it makes no sense for general tax payers to foot the bill either. I guess the government sensed general tax payers would take it up the ass without too much complaining.

Sending 4 billion euro into a banking black hole equates to 2000 euro per person or 10% of GDP. Can anyone from Slovenia comment on the mood of the people after the announcement. Are they relieved that their deposits are safe or are they fuming about the 4 billion euro bill?

Finally, as a loyal Bitstamp customer I'd like to thank all Slovenian tax payers for keeping my favourite exchange open for business 

People are not happy, but as usually on the end they (we) will pay, because they are blind. Long story short 
And you really shouldn't care for a Unicredit Slovenia... €14mil is nothing for them, beside they are not in a hands of state.