Guy loses 240-600 BTC trying to short

[electronicash]

Forex is a hard thing to predict, some people has sucessfull transactions for a while, the question is for how long they will be able to keep into the gree light. I am following a thread that looks like the op has some knowledge and information to play and stay on green. But playing short at any currencie is the same to ask to loose your money, i do remember some broker i had used changes more then others brokers, and then i realized why, those broker were eating the short up and down. Even the expert traders loose, i do remember an etoro trader  that had 100 sucess trades and were stucked with one open trade at euro when it were 1.47 against dollar, those still open till today, soo if they fail to close their trading positions and do loose some money why others will only make money?

Forex is alot simplier actually the fact there there are indicators and economic news are sent online in seconds with the help of internet. The only thing that is hard to learn is when to exit a trade. And also a sudden news that can affect the market isn't something anyone can predict. no different to crypto but its more controlled by whales as of now.

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[manselr]

Forex is a hard thing to predict, some people has sucessfull transactions for a while, the question is for how long they will be able to keep into the gree light. I am following a thread that looks like the op has some knowledge and information to play and stay on green. But playing short at any currencie is the same to ask to loose your money, i do remember some broker i had used changes more then others brokers, and then i realized why, those broker were eating the short up and down. Even the expert traders loose, i do remember an etoro trader  that had 100 sucess trades and were stucked with one open trade at euro when it were 1.47 against dollar, those still open till today, soo if they fail to close their trading positions and do loose some money why others will only make money?

Forex is alot simplier actually the fact there there are indicators and economic news are sent online in seconds with the help of internet. The only thing that is hard to learn is when to exit a trade. And also a sudden news that can affect the market isn't something anyone can predict. no different to crypto but its more controlled by whales as of now.

Im yet to see someone with solid, year-after-year forex gains, or any gains at all if the person doing it is daytrading. I just don't believe in daytrading at all, I think it's pure luck. We can anticipate what's going to happen, but not exactly when, and daytrading is gambling with micromovements which is just market noise. It's not the same being in january 2015 when most smart people were telling other people to buy Bitcoin because it was super undervalued, it was predictable that we would sooner or later go to 1k+ again and hit a new ATH, but it's simply not possible to know what's going to happen in the small timelapses that daytraders play with.

[Mr.Nath]

https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/815598251319640064

Okcoin $BTCUSD Quarterly futures has liquidated a short position of 47857 contract at 1,065.58 - 2017-01-02 00:38:56

I tried to warm my friends on IRC about the dangers of shorting, but they wouldn't listen.. they think they can time the market, when this is impossible, you can only look forward to trying to predict the fundamentals, and the fundamentals are clearly telling us to buy and hold long term. People that bought every dip instead of trying to be the smartass that tries to short has made massive gains this year.

I think that guy was simply greedy on one part and on the other part, he's a great risk taker. Fear such people as they can bounce back anytime.....

He should have simply tested the market with at most 5BTC.

[deisik]

Forex is a hard thing to predict, some people has sucessfull transactions for a while, the question is for how long they will be able to keep into the gree light. I am following a thread that looks like the op has some knowledge and information to play and stay on green. But playing short at any currencie is the same to ask to loose your money, i do remember some broker i had used changes more then others brokers, and then i realized why, those broker were eating the short up and down. Even the expert traders loose, i do remember an etoro trader  that had 100 sucess trades and were stucked with one open trade at euro when it were 1.47 against dollar, those still open till today, soo if they fail to close their trading positions and do loose some money why others will only make money?

Forex is alot simplier actually the fact there there are indicators and economic news are sent online in seconds with the help of internet. The only thing that is hard to learn is when to exit a trade. And also a sudden news that can affect the market isn't something anyone can predict. no different to crypto but its more controlled by whales as of now.

Im yet to see someone with solid, year-after-year forex gains, or any gains at all if the person doing it is daytrading. I just don't believe in daytrading at all, I think it's pure luck. We can anticipate what's going to happen, but not exactly when, and daytrading is gambling with micromovements which is just market noise. It's not the same being in january 2015 when most smart people were telling other people to buy Bitcoin because it was super undervalued, it was predictable that we would sooner or later go to 1k+ again and hit a new ATH, but it's simply not possible to know what's going to happen in the small timelapses that daytraders play with.

These are mostly HFT systems which are earning through arbitrage windows opening between exchanges that trade foreign currencies. The arbitrage opportunities typically last only a few seconds if not milliseconds, and the systems that are located closest to such an exchange (e.g. across the road) or at the exchange itself (e.g. in the same building) can get relatively small but steady profits by exploiting these opportunities at every price movement, however small it might be...

That's why real estate as well as renting is very expensive around major exchanges

[Chinesegandalf]

We trader one can predict where the market will go ,unless you are BP(WHALE) btc holder maybe you can give little Bit of impact on the flow of the market movement.
My 2cent. 😁

[Amph]

He didn't lose the money, he just sold and got nothing from it. He lost what he could've gained, money he never had in hand.
You could say you lost as well, because a week ago you could've sold everything you had, put money in bitcoin and profit

Mate, are you serious?

If he didn't lose any money, who has profited then? Shorting means that he first had to borrow bitcoins (read pay interest on borrowed funds), then he sold the borrowed bitcoins hoping that the price will fall (it is called short sell). When the price actually went up, he had to buy back all the bitcoins he had sold earlier, at a higher price. Doesn't it mean that to buy back the same number of bitcoins he had to pay more dollars? And that would constitute his loss (you can calculate the losses in bitcoins if you wish). If the price went down (as the dude expected), he would again buy back the bitcoins, now at a lower price with less dollars, and the difference would make up his profit (you can count the profits in bitcoins as well)

not really maybe he had those bitcoin, i mean those bitcoin were owned by him, and he was shorting(which is stupid, with a bull market) to make even more

so right now he simply can not re enter the market anymore without losing, but he can keep the funds and go away

Did you read the OP (and the twitter post linked in it)?

If he sold his own funds, it wouldn't be a short sell in the first place. It would be just a sell, as what thousands people are doing on a regular basis every day. If you read the opening post, you would get an idea that it was a futures market where you buy and sell contracts, not actual bitcoins. The only way he could sell a futures contract without going short is when he bought it before and sold it later thus closing his position either at a loss or profit. In this case, it would be profit, not loss, since the price is going up

if you are trading shorting simple mean to buy back after selling, it does not really matter if they are your funds or not, it doesn't make sense to say that you can't short with your money

the same for going long

[deisik]

Did you read the OP (and the twitter post linked in it)?

If he sold his own funds, it wouldn't be a short sell in the first place. It would be just a sell, as what thousands people are doing on a regular basis every day. If you read the opening post, you would get an idea that it was a futures market where you buy and sell contracts, not actual bitcoins. The only way he could sell a futures contract without going short is when he bought it before and sold it later thus closing his position either at a loss or profit. In this case, it would be profit, not loss, since the price is going up

if you are trading shorting simple mean to buy back after selling, it does not really matter if they are your funds or not, it doesn't make sense to say that you can't short with your money

the same for going long

Stop spreading misinformation. And as far as I remember, this is not the first time you are claiming something you don't know or use your understanding which has nothing with the established terminology. Technically, if you sell something which you own, you basically close your long position in that, about which I wrote right away in my post. As I once told you, you may think up anything you please, just don't tell this as if it were an accepted convention...

Short selling (from Wikipedia)

the practice of selling securities or other financial instruments that are not currently owned (usually borrowed), and subsequently repurchasing them ("covering")

Short selling (from Investopedia)

Short selling is the selling of a stock that the seller doesn't own. More specifically, a short sale is the sale of a security that isn't owned by the seller, but that is promised to be delivered

Though I don't think anyone would be interested in your definition since it obviously interferes with the accepted one

[Amph]

it doesn't make sense to me, the practice of shorting, it's selling because you think the price is going down, if it is your or other money shouldn't matter at all

it's not spreading misinformation, that was my definition of it since the beginning, i didn't even have a look at it to wikipedia, therefore i'm not in agreement with that definition

[Pursuer]

this is the problem that we see a lot in crypto currency markets, I am not specifically talking about the guy that OP is mentioning but more general thing.
there are lots of newbies who read something on the internet, learn it and then test it and since it works for them for a couple of times they think it can work forever so they go in big and take risks but they don't know everything because of being a newbie.
and there are many topics around that make this situation worse, they teach you these things without warning about things that can go wrong in trading and how to prevent them.

[deisik]

it doesn't make sense to me, the practice of shorting, it's selling because you think the price is going down, if it is your or other money shouldn't matter at all

it's not spreading misinformation, that was my definition of it since the beginning, i didn't even have a look at it to wikipedia, therefore i'm not in agreement with that definition

You are spreading misinformation because your "definition" has nothing to do with the long accepted and established one. Essentially, you are perverting the meaning of the term that had been in use long before your birth. It is no problem (as I said) if you use it to yourself, but English is not even your mother tongue, so why do you ever come down to telling this? Nevertheless, what is your definition for someone selling stocks, currency futures or whatever which he doesn't own?

What is your term for a short sell as everyone understands this?

[calkob]

Anyone who can bet $300,000 to $500,000 on a short probably has enough money to cover it.
Its still probably a big loss, but I'm assuming this person probably has made millions off Bitcoin already.

Personally I would never take a short against Bitcoin right now. Things have so crazy lately. The price seems to be going up with no signs of stopping.
(Although a slight drop in price could be just as likely, I guess.)

Yeah but it still gotta hurt, but then again in the mentality of someone like that they prob just think i will get it back easy.  I would never risk the bitcoin i have, but then again thats prob why i will never be a multi millionaire either. 

[RoommateAgreement]

this is a great lesson for everyone and it even deserves to be stickied here or in trading board preferably.
so that everyone can see trading is a risky job and you can not predict what is going to happen, you have to go in with amount that you can afford to lose not all you have, because incidents like this can really ruin lives.

[Telepo]

Wow, This guy will go to suicide. he lost too many bitcoins nearly 700,000usd. This is a big amount of money for me .
I have worked all my life , I can not have that amount like this. He was very hazardous.

[BillyBobZorton]

Bitcoin is going to 1000+ again, looks like a lot of short positions got cleared, expect a whole new list of people that went bankrupt recently trying to short the last dip, probably whalecalls twitter will announce it... that is why I just buy and hold. I bought more bitcoin on this dip and it felt great to be able to buy sub 1000 BTC again, it's time to stack up before 1000 solidifies as the new floor. Bitcoin has shown excellent performance everytime it dips.

[deisik]

Bitcoin is going to 1000+ again, looks like a lot of short positions got cleared, expect a whole new list of people that went bankrupt recently trying to short the last dip, probably whalecalls twitter will announce it... that is why I just buy and hold. I bought more bitcoin on this dip and it felt great to be able to buy sub 1000 BTC again, it's time to stack up before 1000 solidifies as the new floor. Bitcoin has shown excellent performance everytime it dips.

Between the cup and the lip a morsel may slip (or sleep)

What we just saw may be just a dead-cat bounce. When China wakes up later in the night today, the price may go down to sub-800 levels. I guess it is safe to say now that the current price gap over 1,000 dollars has been nothing more but a severe pump, and we may not yet have seen the dump phase of it. The market always fools the majority of players and wannabe traders. Now as they think they have seen the bottom and happily started to buy up



While the light might in fact well be a freight train coming

[SvenBomvolen]

   In this topic I learned that even for shorting, trader need to choose right moment, in case he borrowed bitcoins lose is huge. Confusing part is that he wanted to do this now when everyone expect rise, where he got idea about drop, why he expected that?
   I feel sorry for this guy, he lost a fortune. Trading is proven to be very risky investment once again, learn from this and try to not do the same. If this is me, I dont know how would I recover from this huge lose.

[Amph]

it doesn't make sense to me, the practice of shorting, it's selling because you think the price is going down, if it is your or other money shouldn't matter at all

it's not spreading misinformation, that was my definition of it since the beginning, i didn't even have a look at it to wikipedia, therefore i'm not in agreement with that definition

You are spreading misinformation because your "definition" has nothing to do with the long accepted and established one. Essentially, you are perverting the meaning of the term that had been in use long before your birth. It is no problem (as I said) if you use it to yourself, but English is not even your mother tongue, so why do you ever come down to telling this? Nevertheless, what is your definition for someone selling stocks, currency futures or whatever which he doesn't own?

What is your term for a short sell as everyone understands this?

as i said shorting is selling when you speculate on the price going down, selling just to take the money and go away is dumping for me

and again is not misinformation, i'm not doing it on purpose to make other belive what iw ant, it's just my view on the matter

otherwise how do you call someone who is selling his money to buy back?

[deisik]

   In this topic I learned that even for shorting, trader need to choose right moment, in case he borrowed bitcoins lose is huge. Confusing part is that he wanted to do this now when everyone expect rise, where he got idea about drop, why he expected that?
   I feel sorry for this guy, he lost a fortune. Trading is proven to be very risky investment once again, learn from this and try to not do the same. If this is me, I dont know how would I recover from this huge lose.

In fact, it is not even for shorting, it is specifically for shorting that you need to choose the right moment with a surgical accuracy. As I explained above and others basically said the same, your losses can be virtually unlimited since you win when the price goes down, and, consequently, lose when it goes up, and there is no limit to the upper side ("to the moon"). Add to this that shorting technically is carried out on borrowed funds and you get an understanding how dangerous it is. Regarding why some took to shorting, they obviously expected the price to start massively correcting after reaching the 1,000 dollar level...

But it didn't happen, and the price went another 100 dollars up over $1,100

You are spreading misinformation because your "definition" has nothing to do with the long accepted and established one. Essentially, you are perverting the meaning of the term that had been in use long before your birth. It is no problem (as I said) if you use it to yourself, but English is not even your mother tongue, so why do you ever come down to telling this? Nevertheless, what is your definition for someone selling stocks, currency futures or whatever which he doesn't own?

What is your term for a short sell as everyone understands this?

as i said shorting is selling when you speculate on the price going down, selling just to take the money and go away is dumping for me

I'm asking what is your term for short selling as it is understood by everyone and his dog (i.e. selling something you borrowed with the intention of buying it back when the price goes down)?

[davis196]

https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/815598251319640064

Okcoin $BTCUSD Quarterly futures has liquidated a short position of 47857 contract at 1,065.58 - 2017-01-02 00:38:56

I tried to warm my friends on IRC about the dangers of shorting, but they wouldn't listen.. they think they can time the market, when this is impossible, you can only look forward to trying to predict the fundamentals, and the fundamentals are clearly telling us to buy and hold long term. People that bought every dip instead of trying to be the smartass that tries to short has made massive gains this year.

Bitcoin price decreased from $1130 to $946 recently.

Shorting can be profiable if done at the right time.

I was expecting that bitcoin price correction.

[deisik]

https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/815598251319640064

Okcoin $BTCUSD Quarterly futures has liquidated a short position of 47857 contract at 1,065.58 - 2017-01-02 00:38:56

I tried to warm my friends on IRC about the dangers of shorting, but they wouldn't listen.. they think they can time the market, when this is impossible, you can only look forward to trying to predict the fundamentals, and the fundamentals are clearly telling us to buy and hold long term. People that bought every dip instead of trying to be the smartass that tries to short has made massive gains this year.

Bitcoin price decreased from $1130 to $946 recently.

Shorting can be profiable if done at the right time.

I was expecting that bitcoin price correction.

Now people will start massively claiming that they have foreseen this price correction

If you really expected it, why didn't you short Bitcoin after all? Those who actually expected it, poured their money into shorts. Not surprising that they mostly lost their coins. It is easy to be wise after the event. Folks had been expecting correction since the price reached 800 dollars per coin and so what? Market manipulators waited until people started to really put their money where their mouth is and then grabbed all their dough (as they always do)



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