Monero exchance centralization... a danger?

[Hrumph]

The only Monero economy, which is still reliant on Poloniex and other exchanges for $Fiat value, seems to be CP and hard drugs.  What exactly is everyone's end game behind Monero?  Move to Colombia and become Crypto-Escobars? 

The end game is to create a fully fungible digital cash equivalent which can be used for legal or illegal activities. You might say that no one has any need of such a thing, but continuous government monitoring only happens because encryption isn't built into everything by default and the monitoring is therefore possible. With technology like Monero governments will have to return to honest law enforcement. Furthermore, sometimes you might have good cause to do something illegal. What if a pain medication that you need has been banned by the government but the only way you can get it is to buy it on a dnm? Just look at all the new efforts by governments to ban opiates. Chronic pain sufferers must be in a state of horror witnessing this. What if you support an illegal cause (Monero development might be illegal in the future)? You could donate with Monero, otherwise you might find it impossible to contribute.

[toknormal]

The end game is to create a fully fungible digital cash

I think you're mistaking "fungibility" for "obscurity". They are not the same thing.

Fungibility doesn't come at the expense of transparency (unless you're talking about fungibility of 'transaction IDs' )

[maku]

I see some very funny logical contradictions here - you guys are concerned of supposedly fully anonymous coin while trading on a exchange which collect your personal information?
You do realize that Monero was not created for exchange trading at all? If you use this coin to trade in this way then you don't care about coin roots, you just want to profit.

[iCEBREAKER]

The end game is to create a fully fungible digital cash

I think you're mistaking "fungibility" for "obscurity". They are not the same thing.

Fungibility doesn't come at the expense of transparency (unless you're talking about fungibility of 'transaction IDs' )

Fungibility and privacy are inexorably bound.  As Adam Back succinctly stated, "fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."

A coin cannot be partially fungible.  It's a binary property, and Dash cannot be half fungible any more than a woman can be half pregnant.

While Bitcoin certainly has important uses (super-money for institutional settlements, central bank forex reserve), its radical transparency is exactly what prevents it from being fungible/private.

Dash is a fork of Bitcoin, so it inherits that limitation.

Even worse, Dash has far fewer users and much less transaction volume so its smaller anonymity set is vastly more susceptible to blockchain analysis.

Worst of all, Dash's relative lack of devs makes it impossible for it to keep up with Bitcoin advancements such as RBF, CPFP, SEGWIT, tree signatures, Rootstock, side chains, Confidential Transactions, mimblewimble, tumblebit, and Lightning Network.

Dash is a shitty instamined scam coin.  That's why it was banned from Apple and will never be on Kraken, much less Coinbase.

[HCLivess]

munoro exchance centralicadion... an duncher!

[obit33]

The end game is to create a fully fungible digital cash

I think you're mistaking "fungibility" for "obscurity". They are not the same thing.

Fungibility doesn't come at the expense of transparency (unless you're talking about fungibility of 'transaction IDs' )

oh boy, here you are again with your inane theories about money...

in bitcoin, fungibility is broken because of transaction history, in xmr, fungibility works because of no transaction history aka what you call obscurity...

it's just that simple...

[toknormal]

Fungibility and privacy are inexorably bound.

Except something can be fungible AND public which, in terms of unbacked monetary properties is far more optimal than being fungible and obscure.

In bitcoin, every coin address is visible, its balance auditable and its continuity with every other address explicit. That transparency is UNIVERSAL and SYMMETRICAL. i.e. it isn't restricted to keyholders, everyone has the same view whether you're a payer, payee, network participant or non-participant.

That's fungibility.

Dash further enhances this almost-perfect monetary token so that the coin supply is highly resistant to regular pattern detection, thereby optimising transaction anonymity WITHOUT recourse to torpedoing the blockchain's transparency.

[obit33]

Fungibility and privacy are inexorably bound.

Except something can be fungible AND public which, in terms of unbacked monetary properties is far more optimal than being fungible and obscure.

In bitcoin, every coin address is visible, its balance auditable and its continuity with every other address explicit. That transparency is UNIVERSAL and SYMMETRICAL. i.e. it isn't restricted to keyholders, everyone has the same view whether you're a payer, payee, network participant or non-participant.

That's fungibility.

no, it's not... how else do you explain coinbase deleting accounts because 'shade transactions'... aka, your coins are tainted, so we close your account... aka, the coin used in shade transaction != newly minted coin

I don't know my neighbours bank balance either, I don't get your fetish with transparancy and then building optimised anonimity on top of that because muh same view wether payer, ....

no no no, I won't be dragged into this again... good luck with your dash-fantasy

this topic is about exchange centralisation

bye

[toknormal]

how else do you explain coinbase deleting accounts because 'shade transactions'

By virtue of the fact that hiding blockchain properties is not the same thing as making monetary tokens "indistinguishable", no matter how much Monero shills try to conflate these two concepts.

Coinbase have a problem with the former, not the latter.

[dinofelis]

In bitcoin, every coin address is visible, its balance auditable and its continuity with every other address explicit. That transparency is UNIVERSAL and SYMMETRICAL. i.e. it isn't restricted to keyholders, everyone has the same view whether you're a payer, payee, network participant or non-participant.

That's fungibility.

Fungibility doesn't mean that *everyone* can see that coin 1 is different from coin 2.  Fungibility means that YOU cannot make the difference between someone offering you coin 1 or coin 2.

For instance, if ever some of Satoshi's bitcoins start to move, they may have "unique collector properties" which render them 20 times more expensive and valuable than your every-day Chinese mined coin.  The same way that a handkerchief used by Napoleon may be valued much, much more than your cousin's handkerchief.

[dinofelis]

By virtue of the fact that hiding blockchain properties is not the same thing as making monetary tokens "indistinguishable", no matter how much Monero shills try to conflate these two concepts.

monetary tokens can only be indistinguishable, if, well, we cannot distinguish one from another.  Now, monetary tokens that have a traceable history to them, will of course be distinguishable from tokens that have a different history to them.  Napoleon's handkerchief is different from another handkerchief, because once it belonged to Napoleon.  That sheer fact distinguishes this particular handkerchief from all other, similar, handkerchiefs.

[noise2]

how else do you explain coinbase deleting accounts because 'shade transactions'

By virtue of the fact that hiding blockchain properties is not the same thing as making monetary tokens "indistinguishable", no matter how much Monero shills try to conflate these two concepts.

Coinbase have a problem with the former, not the latter.

Please explain again how crypto doesn't have anything to do with cryptocurrencies. It probably makes as much sense as this one does.

[toknormal]

Fungibility doesn't mean that *everyone* can see that coin 1 is different from coin 2

I think you're engaging in your preferred pastime of philosophical indulgence again.

A gold coin looks, weighs and feels like a gold coin regardless of whether you happen to be the owner or not.

[Spoetnik]

You guys need a dedicated topic on Monero + Fungibility me thinks

GO GO GO hahaha  

[jwinterm]

More like a topic for pedantic pseudo-intellectual bullshit. Monero has a thread for Monero+fungibility, it's the ANN thread.

[Spoetnik]

@jwinterm
Fair enough and i liked your choice of words  
We got's plenty of backyard existentialist's in our midst.      

Existentialism is a philosophy that emphasizes individual existence, freedom and choice. It is the view that humans define their own meaning in life, and try to make rational decisions despite existing in an irrational universe.

On this topic i think it is what it is.. RIGHT NOW it *IS* heavily centralized on 1 exchange.
It WAS designed that way too because NOTHING was done early on to solve this INEVITABLE and PREDICTABLE problem.

Now ask yourselves did i just LIE ?
Did i just make that up to be a jerk ?
OR ?
Am i just saying the things no one wants to hear ?

Jeez people you act like i am hanging around trying to take down crypto.
I want to see it improved.
It won't be if we stuff our head in the sand forever.

You all have to agree with me the traditional exchanges we have used for years were never a good solution for long term success.
They served their purpose but eventually they need to go.
A decentralized replacement NEEDS to be put in place.
And if these guys running a BUSINESS making profit from shitcoins do not have the fore sight to go and invest in getting that created ahead of time then tough fucking titty.. drown assholes.
What is it you all think they do with their shitcoin BUSINESS profits ?
Invest in the advancement of Crypto ? or crack & hookers ?

[bbc.reporter]

The only Monero economy, which is still reliant on Poloniex and other exchanges for $Fiat value, seems to be CP and hard drugs.  What exactly is everyone's end game behind Monero?  Move to Colombia and become Crypto-Escobars? 

Well the end game for most Monero supporters and holders is to sell and hold everything back in bitcoins. I said this before and I will say it again now. All of the altcoiners are really bitcoiners but they do not know it yet. Why do I say this? Because there will be a time that they will convert their coins back to bitcoin. Welcome back!

[Spoetnik]

The only Monero economy, which is still reliant on Poloniex and other exchanges for $Fiat value, seems to be CP and hard drugs.  What exactly is everyone's end game behind Monero?  Move to Colombia and become Crypto-Escobars? 

Well the end game for most Monero supporters and holders is to sell and hold everything back in bitcoins. I said this before and I will say it again now. All of the altcoiners are really bitcoiners but they do not know it yet. Why do I say this? Because there will be a time that they will convert their coins back to bitcoin. Welcome back!

I think i am in agreement with you sir.

I have tried to lecture the people behind coins that the supporters they attract etc
..are no good for them.

THEY PLAN ON DUMPING .

And i missed TaunSew's comment
No matter what side your on you have to admit that was some top-shelf FUD right there !
I tip my Crypto-Troll-Hat to you sir.. well played.. well played indeed !

[dinofelis]

The only Monero economy, which is still reliant on Poloniex and other exchanges for $Fiat value, seems to be CP and hard drugs.  What exactly is everyone's end game behind Monero?  Move to Colombia and become Crypto-Escobars?  

Well the end game for most Monero supporters and holders is to sell and hold everything back in bitcoins. I said this before and I will say it again now. All of the altcoiners are really bitcoiners but they do not know it yet. Why do I say this? Because there will be a time that they will convert their coins back to bitcoin. Welcome back!

And what is everyone's end game behind bitcoin ?   As it is now, it is also to sell and hold everything back in fiat.  Although there IS for the moment a small amount of transactions (as compared to total volume) and HENCE a small part of the bitcoin market cap that is sustained from "buying goods and services", it is also quite minuscule, so this is NOT the finality of most bitcoin holders.  Most bitcoin holders are, probably like many monero holders, just speculating on "higher fiat value to cash out one day", NOT to "buy server time services with bitcoin".
As such, one can also say that "all of the bitcoin holders are really fiat holders, but they don't know it yet.  Why ?  Because there will be a time that they will convert their bitcoins back to fiat".

[Zadicar]

If Poloniex goes out of course, there will be more important to worry about than whatever quantity of Monero you will buy. Poloniex is the king of the altcoins exchange, storing incredible amounts of money. If Poloniex gets taken down by an attack, I think you can say that all altcoins of the platform except maybe Litecoin or Ethereum will be deceased with the platform. I am not a Monero specialist and I do not have an opinion on it so talking about Monero's problems preciously can not be done with me.

This is really true,Poloniex doesnt only a somehow storage for monero coin trading but most of all alts that exist on the market especially on the most potential coins and which means not only monero would be affected but all those alts which are being traded their.We all know polo is one of the biggest exchange as far as i know because of its volumes and if it is hacked then many coins will surely suffer.