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Author Topic: Bitcoin ETF: A Gamechanger?  (Read 3872 times)
Terpie
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June 15, 2011, 03:51:48 PM
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Consider the implications if a management firm such as Sprott (http://www.sprott.com/) were to set up a Bitcoin ETF that could be redeemed for actual bitcoins. This would be similar to their gold and silver ETFs (http://www.sprottphysicalsilvertrust.com/WhyInvest.aspx) that have been very popular. This would allow instant access to billions of investor capital that currently must go through a maze of intermediaries. It would also resolve security issues involved with securing personal wallets. Is this too far off at this point or could an innovative management firm do this soon? 
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Ukigo
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June 15, 2011, 04:45:04 PM
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1) Almost ANY ETF is a SCAM to some degree. From time to time happen
reverse splits of the ETF, that dilute its value.
2)Also PAPER gold and silver (ETFs too ) =/= REAL shiny metal (like coins, bars).
People buying metal derivatives will end up in tears, b/c ww financial
system is on the verge of collapse. Their paper "holdings" eventually disappear.

"...Enemies are everywhere ! Angka is all rage ! Be a good soldiers, blow everything... " <-- Pol Pot (C)
flug
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June 15, 2011, 05:13:26 PM
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Security of wallets is a real issue for me. I would pay for a trusted party to look after my bitcoins.
Terpie
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June 15, 2011, 05:20:54 PM
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1) Almost ANY ETF is a SCAM to some degree. From time to time happen
reverse splits of the ETF, that dilute its value.
2)Also PAPER gold and silver (ETFs too ) =/= REAL shiny metal (like coins, bars).
People buying metal derivatives will end up in tears, b/c ww financial
system is on the verge of collapse. Their paper "holdings" eventually disappear.

Read up on Sprott's Gold and Silver ETFs. Next tell me how the current system involving Dwolla, MtGox, Paypal, etc. is considered to incur less counterparty risk than a trusted financial management firm supervising a SEC-approved, NYSE-traded, bitcoin-backed, redeemable, ETF. I know some gold bugs are paranoid, but jesus, just don't invest then.
Andrew Vorobyov
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June 15, 2011, 05:30:17 PM
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This smells like a big money.... we definitely need try to do it.

flug
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June 15, 2011, 06:15:11 PM
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I believe that the Sprott funds are fully audited, and the fund makes its profit by charging an premium on the initial purchase (20%?).
Ukigo
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June 15, 2011, 06:31:52 PM
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I am not a gold bug at all. )
BUT true gold bugs purchase ONLY physical metal.
All paper gold  was, is and will be "gold of fools" ))

BTC, instead, is digital by nature and is good nuff in pure form.
No need to build ridiculous derivatives upon it.

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Terpie
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June 15, 2011, 06:47:42 PM
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I am not a gold bug at all. )
BUT true gold bugs purchase ONLY physical metal.
All paper gold  was, is and will be "gold of fools" ))

BTC, instead, is digital by nature and is good nuff in pure form.
No need to build ridiculous derivatives upon it.


What are you arguing? You don't think providing an alternative avenue for capital flows that would have easy access to hundreds of billions of dollars and provided by a truly trusted intermediary would work to increase access to bitcoin? Or you don't think it's necessary?
Lupus_Yonderboy
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June 15, 2011, 07:29:51 PM
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Actually the first firm that made this a reality will probably make a lot of profit from it. A known, trusted firm giving easy access to bitcoins for Wall St. investors is a big deal, and will lead to a lot of profit for everyone involved. A major influx of speculator capital into the bitcoin economy benefits us all.

@OP: If you are in position to sell this project to someone that can pull it off, then by all means do so. Just make sure that they know how volatile bitcoins are right now. While there are a number of anti-government cranks that frequent these forums, the potential for this application goes far beyond their petty politics. There are great profits to be had here, for those that have the courage, vision, and resources to pull it off.
Terpie
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June 15, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
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Actually the first firm that made this a reality will probably make a lot of profit from it. A known, trusted firm giving easy access to bitcoins for Wall St. investors is a big deal, and will lead to a lot of profit for everyone involved. A major influx of speculator capital into the bitcoin economy benefits us all.

@OP: If you are in position to sell this project to someone that can pull it off, then by all means do so. Just make sure that they know how volatile bitcoins are right now. While there are a number of anti-government cranks that frequent these forums, the potential for this application goes far beyond their petty politics. There are great profits to be had here, for those that have the courage, vision, and resources to pull it off.

Unfortunately there are only a few management funds in the world that would have the expertise and philosophical-alignment to undertake such a task. And it might still be too early in the game for even them. Second bit of misfortune, is that I have no connections to this area of finance, which is kind of ironic, because I have them everywhere else. I would have skipped the board entirely if I did have the connections, but I'm hoping someone else out there does and can act on this opportunity.
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June 15, 2011, 11:24:12 PM
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PHYS and PSLV are not ETFs.  They are CEFs.  Huge, huge difference.

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June 15, 2011, 11:42:13 PM
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Security of wallets is a real issue for me. I would pay for a trusted party to look after my bitcoins.

Cheesy You can trust me.  I'll keep your wallet so secure, even YOU can't get to it. Wink

Against my better judgement... 1ADjszXMSRuAUjyy3ShFRy54SyRVrNDgDc
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June 15, 2011, 11:45:54 PM
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If this is the route that allows Canadian speculators to shelter their bitcoin profits inside a tax free savings account then I would sign up.

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December 02, 2012, 10:31:19 AM
 #14

A Bitcoin ETF would indeed be an excellent idea. It would open the gates to billions of invested funds.

Has anything happened in this regard in the meantime?

Please let me know if you want to pull this off. Maybe I can help.

Residing in Switzerland? Then write me to join the Bitcoin Association Switzerland - the local chapter of the Bitcoin Foundation.
hazek
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December 02, 2012, 11:31:30 AM
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Security of wallets is a real issue for me. I would pay for a trusted party to look after my bitcoins.

It's likely about to get solved through two hardware wallets being developed.  Wink

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dacoinminster
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December 03, 2012, 04:34:12 PM
 #16

I've got a campaign going to try to get various ETF people to create a bitcoin ETF: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91262.0

Would be nice to put some of my IRA into bitcoin that way Smiley

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