The China Effect

[CyberKuro]

What is happening right now with the value of Bitcoin can all be partly traced to China. Chinese hold a big portion of the quantity of Bitcoin now circulating globally...they can manipulate its value and whatever they do that can affect Bitcoin will have a direct and indirect impact on its market value. Not to mention the fact that pronouncements from the China government in relation to Bitcoin can send the value of Bitcoin tumbling down or rolling up.

And this leads me into thinking...is Bitcoin now tied to China and is there something we can do about it?

As China miners possess higher percentage of bitcoin circulation so they could easily manipulated the market price
They get big profits to sell out at high price and then buy back at cheaper price, wth of bitcoin game.
Hopefully, bitcoin can spread more widely and has more bigger market cap.

[QuestionAuthority]

We can not do anything with bitcoin because chinese demand is too high and Once there are anything happened with bitcoin or chinese investors of bitcoins. that is very big problem because They owned biggest bitcoins in the world (90% bitcoin amount from China). I think we need another digital coin for the rest of the world.

Where did you get the source that 90% bitcoins are from China, that's an absurdly high number.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

[Xester]

China is not controlling the price of bitcoin but rather the increase in price as well as the decrease was majorly caused by the bitcoin activities in China. The activities of bitcoin in China especially that they own huge amount of bitcoin will play a huge impact on the market. This fact has caused some major panic to some bitcoin users knowing that China will soon launch its fiat digital currency, they are worried that China will dump huge volumes of bitcoin in the market that will cause a tremendous meltdown in bitcoins price.

[FandangledGizmo]

We can not do anything with bitcoin because chinese demand is too high and Once there are anything happened with bitcoin or chinese investors of bitcoins. that is very big problem because They owned biggest bitcoins in the world (90% bitcoin amount from China). I think we need another digital coin for the rest of the world.

Where did you get the source that 90% bitcoins are from China, that's an absurdly high number.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

That stat is misleading as they include Chinese exchanges with no trading fees which massively inflates trading volume.

[~Bitcoin~]

And this leads me into thinking...is Bitcoin now tied to China and is there something we can do about it?

I have also started thinking like this recently, price is dumping really hard just after Chinese yuan become stronger against USD which nobody have ever predicted before. There is only small rise in yuan value but that created the current chaos. However i am quite confident that this dumps are only temporary one and we may find $900 as new floor after this drama end.  

[Juggy777]

What is happening right now with the value of Bitcoin can all be partly traced to China. Chinese hold a big portion of the quantity of Bitcoin now circulating globally...they can manipulate its value and whatever they do that can affect Bitcoin will have a direct and indirect impact on its market value. Not to mention the fact that pronouncements from the China government in relation to Bitcoin can send the value of Bitcoin tumbling down or rolling up.

And this leads me into thinking...is Bitcoin now tied to China and is there something we can do about it?

I had this similar question on my mind when I had read Chinese news and knew the prices would tumble down and so did it. We are really helpless of you see as there's no way to fight it. They have cheapest electricity and have a major share of the Bitcoin in their hand. We all are just playing mere spectators and will have to watch as to how the Chinese government will further affect the Bitcoin prices.

[Tanic]

We can not do anything with bitcoin because chinese demand is too high and Once there are anything happened with bitcoin or chinese investors of bitcoins. that is very big problem because They owned biggest bitcoins in the world (90% bitcoin amount from China). I think we need another digital coin for the rest of the world.

Where did you get the source that 90% bitcoins are from China, that's an absurdly high number.

I think China has nothing with changing the price for bitcoin.

[talkbitcoin]

We can not do anything with bitcoin because chinese demand is too high and Once there are anything happened with bitcoin or chinese investors of bitcoins. that is very big problem because They owned biggest bitcoins in the world (90% bitcoin amount from China). I think we need another digital coin for the rest of the world.

Where did you get the source that 90% bitcoins are from China, that's an absurdly high number.

I think China has nothing with changing the price for bitcoin.

actually they have lots to do with bitcoin price but not the way that people like OP are thinking or pretending.
Chinese like many other people in many other countries have been investing in bitcoin a great deal of money because they unlike many ignorant people have realized that bitcoin is potentially great for many things first of which is profit as an investment.
and in any kind of investment let it be bitcoin, gold or stocks of a company when prices go high this fast they are bound to come down to the normal levels.

[Catmony]

China is behind almost every pumps and dumps, we have heard about china banning bitcoin several times which have quickly created panic in bitcoin trading in past also. And now same rumor along with tight regulation on bitcoin trading platform creating another panic.

Right now all traders are looking towards chinese news to trade accordingly.

[QuestionAuthority]

We can not do anything with bitcoin because chinese demand is too high and Once there are anything happened with bitcoin or chinese investors of bitcoins. that is very big problem because They owned biggest bitcoins in the world (90% bitcoin amount from China). I think we need another digital coin for the rest of the world.

Where did you get the source that 90% bitcoins are from China, that's an absurdly high number.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

That stat is misleading as they include Chinese exchanges with no trading fees which massively inflates trading volume.

http://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/30d?c=e&t=a

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin/trading_exchanges

http://www.bitcoinwatch.com

[manselr]

What is happening right now with the value of Bitcoin can all be partly traced to China. Chinese hold a big portion of the quantity of Bitcoin now circulating globally...they can manipulate its value and whatever they do that can affect Bitcoin will have a direct and indirect impact on its market value. Not to mention the fact that pronouncements from the China government in relation to Bitcoin can send the value of Bitcoin tumbling down or rolling up.

And this leads me into thinking...is Bitcoin now tied to China and is there something we can do about it?

We already know that the china thing was just a rumor and was nothing to worry about, but even then it caused panic sell. "Sell the rumor..." it seems still applies, but the real question is: Would it have corrrected anything without the china government crap? Who knows, it may or may have.

The conspiracy theorist in my thinks that this was planned by the chinese government, they knew they would crash it, so they shorted positions then they made the shitty announcement of literally nothing happening other than warning about how unstable bitcoin price can be.

[btcmerich]

75-80% of worlds bitcoin is mined in China!  it would be naive saying they can not control the price. Miners are well orgenized  and have meetings. What do you think they talk about in this meetins , about Justin Beevers  latest hit? no , they talk about how to make best profit.To make best profit they need to control the price and so the market . they dump some of the coins they mined to start panic and then buy them back lower to bring up the price high then selling their bought coins + the mined coins.

This is one of the biggest flaws with bitcoin , POW besides the fact that it can handle 2-3 transactions per second. I love bticoin but it has not the future many think it will have. It did open doors and did open our eyes, it will be replaced as horses were replaced by cars



 

[alyssa85]

What is happening right now with the value of Bitcoin can all be partly traced to China. Chinese hold a big portion of the quantity of Bitcoin now circulating globally...they can manipulate its value and whatever they do that can affect Bitcoin will have a direct and indirect impact on its market value. Not to mention the fact that pronouncements from the China government in relation to Bitcoin can send the value of Bitcoin tumbling down or rolling up.

And this leads me into thinking...is Bitcoin now tied to China and is there something we can do about it?

There isn't anything we can do. Bitcoin mining is concentrated in China because the miners have deals to get free electricity from the chinese govt. There is no way that can be duplicated in the rest of the world.

The chinese exchanges are also odd, they don't apply trading fees, and there is a suspicion that their model isn't really about bitcoin (though they want people to deposit both bitcoin and fiat to their exchanges), but using the money that has been deposited to made shadow loans in the shadow banking system. When stuff is free, you are the product.  If you think about a normal bank, it takes in desposits from savers and then makes loans. Their chinese exchange model seems to be, get people to desposit both fiat and bitcoin, and keep their money on the exchange via no-fee trading, and meanwhile that money is being used as a base to lend out to the real economy via shadow banking at high interest rates.

What will happen in the end is that an alt with a different model (one that doesn't need so much electricity and equipment to mine) and one that is better distributed geographically, will come forward and take bitcoin's crown. The western exchanges are already thinking on these lines, that is why GDAX, Kraken, and so on offer alt trading. They have basically given up on bitcoin and are conscious that an alt might take it's place and they are getting ready by having alts on their exchanges, so it works smoothly with what they've already set-up with links to bank accounts, payment processors and so on.

[MatDerKater]

Question:  If it's China that's doing the selling and driving the price down,  who are they selling to?  And would that not lead to a redistribution of bitcoin?  Also, is there any proof of China as a whole being responsible for the drop?  I'll admit I read absolutely zero crypto news.

Bitcoin is ramped on CNY exchanges, with volume that is likely 95% fake, if not more.

Large quantities are then dumped on USD exchanges, which is what the Chinese Bitcoin Cowboys are really interested in...i.e. wealth out of the country, wash rinse repeat.

....except Western investment interest in Bitcoin is getting increasingly thin (just look at the cross exchange volumes), which means the Chinese Bitcoin Cowboys can offload increasingly less Bitcoin into USD with each manufactured pump n dump, but then there is only half the volume of Bitcoin being created now as there was before July 2016.

There is nothing that can be done about it, unless somewhere in the world, can offer miners even cheaper energy than is offered to miners in China. If that were the case then I suppose if a Western based cabal had the motivation to do so, then they could open up shop in this ultra cheap energy economy, and do exactly what the Chinese done. Namely, intentionally crash Bitcoin and keep it suppressed for long enough, to force miners with too expensive energy bills, to shut up shop, and then when all those guys are out the game, allow/force the market to rise again.

But even in the unlikely event that some western venture capitalist cabal had the means and the motivation to give the Chinese a taste of their own medicine, Bitcoin would still have the problem of being controlled by a very small interest group.

[yonton]

China makes up 90% of the Bitcoin trading. Doesn't mean they own 90% of the Bitcoin.

[manselr]

that is mostly FUD in my opinion. and China government has never shown any interest against bitcoin in the past 8 years and if you believe China is holding majority if bitcoins in circulation that means they are rich and rich people will do anything to change the government opinion if they decide to do anything against bitcoin even if it means buying the government.

The question is not wether China's government banning bitcoin is FUD or isn't but: what would happen if China went for a full blown ban. Let's just imagine that happens... what would happen to the price? My immediate intuition tells me it would insta dump. So how do we protect from that potential situation? I think it may eventually happen. Sure, China can put KYC laws on exchanges, but what will happen once we have decentralized exchanges that work thanks to the lightning network? most people will use those to avoid paying any taxes, or maybe not since I cant help of ways to move relevant amount of moneys off the banking system without gov noticing.... thought call.

[GMPoison]

75-80% of worlds bitcoin is mined in China!  it would be naive saying they can not control the price. Miners are well orgenized  and have meetings. What do you think they talk about in this meetins , about Justin Beevers  latest hit? no , they talk about how to make best profit.To make best profit they need to control the price and so the market . they dump some of the coins they mined to start panic and then buy them back lower to bring up the price high then selling their bought coins + the mined coins.

This is one of the biggest flaws with bitcoin , POW besides the fact that it can handle 2-3 transactions per second. I love bticoin but it has not the future many think it will have. It did open doors and did open our eyes, it will be replaced as horses were replaced by cars

Is there any data anywhere that breaks down in which country miners are located? Remember, just because Chinese pools represent most of the hashing power in the world, doesn't mean they're all Chinese miners. I live in the USA and I can easily contribute to that number by pointing to a Chinese pool.

[QuestionAuthority]

75-80% of worlds bitcoin is mined in China!  it would be naive saying they can not control the price. Miners are well orgenized  and have meetings. What do you think they talk about in this meetins , about Justin Beevers  latest hit? no , they talk about how to make best profit.To make best profit they need to control the price and so the market . they dump some of the coins they mined to start panic and then buy them back lower to bring up the price high then selling their bought coins + the mined coins.

This is one of the biggest flaws with bitcoin , POW besides the fact that it can handle 2-3 transactions per second. I love bticoin but it has not the future many think it will have. It did open doors and did open our eyes, it will be replaced as horses were replaced by cars

Is there any data anywhere that breaks down in which country miners are located? Remember, just because Chinese pools represent most of the hashing power in the world, doesn't mean they're all Chinese miners. I live in the USA and I can easily contribute to that number by pointing to a Chinese pool.

That is true. You can mine at a pool located anywhere but the pool operator controls the rules you mine under. If you mine at AntPool, F2Pool, BTCChina, BW Mining, and Huobi then you agree to mine 8 mb blocks. Even if you prefer to mine 20 mb blocks you aren't in control of anything, the pool operator is.

[GMPoison]

75-80% of worlds bitcoin is mined in China!  it would be naive saying they can not control the price. Miners are well orgenized  and have meetings. What do you think they talk about in this meetins , about Justin Beevers  latest hit? no , they talk about how to make best profit.To make best profit they need to control the price and so the market . they dump some of the coins they mined to start panic and then buy them back lower to bring up the price high then selling their bought coins + the mined coins.

This is one of the biggest flaws with bitcoin , POW besides the fact that it can handle 2-3 transactions per second. I love bticoin but it has not the future many think it will have. It did open doors and did open our eyes, it will be replaced as horses were replaced by cars

Is there any data anywhere that breaks down in which country miners are located? Remember, just because Chinese pools represent most of the hashing power in the world, doesn't mean they're all Chinese miners. I live in the USA and I can easily contribute to that number by pointing to a Chinese pool.

That is true. You can mine at a pool located anywhere but the pool operator controls the rules you mine under. If you mine at AntPool, F2Pool, BTCChina, BW Mining, and Huobi then you agree to mine 8 mb blocks. Even if you prefer to mine 20 mb blocks you aren't in control of anything, the pool operator is.

True indeed, but is it not fair to then say that if you have the ability to mine at any pool, then the miners really are the ones in control as they could just as easily point themselves to different pools than those?

[QuestionAuthority]

75-80% of worlds bitcoin is mined in China!  it would be naive saying they can not control the price. Miners are well orgenized  and have meetings. What do you think they talk about in this meetins , about Justin Beevers  latest hit? no , they talk about how to make best profit.To make best profit they need to control the price and so the market . they dump some of the coins they mined to start panic and then buy them back lower to bring up the price high then selling their bought coins + the mined coins.

This is one of the biggest flaws with bitcoin , POW besides the fact that it can handle 2-3 transactions per second. I love bticoin but it has not the future many think it will have. It did open doors and did open our eyes, it will be replaced as horses were replaced by cars

Is there any data anywhere that breaks down in which country miners are located? Remember, just because Chinese pools represent most of the hashing power in the world, doesn't mean they're all Chinese miners. I live in the USA and I can easily contribute to that number by pointing to a Chinese pool.

That is true. You can mine at a pool located anywhere but the pool operator controls the rules you mine under. If you mine at AntPool, F2Pool, BTCChina, BW Mining, and Huobi then you agree to mine 8 mb blocks. Even if you prefer to mine 20 mb blocks you aren't in control of anything, the pool operator is.

True indeed, but is it not fair to then say that if you have the ability to mine at any pool, then the miners really are the ones in control as they could just as easily point themselves to different pools than those?

That's right but I think that's why most people believe the Chinese are controlling mining. Westerners believe in the decentralization of Bitcoin. If we had the power to do it we would, as you say, point our machines to non Chinese pools. So reasonable deduction would lead us to believe most of the individuals mining for the Chinese pools must live in China and trust the Chinese pools.