Bitcoin Forum
December 16, 2017, 06:27:17 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Ripple: A Distributed Exchange for Bitcoin  (Read 66222 times)
themusicgod1
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 253


View Profile
November 05, 2013, 07:00:26 PM
 #361

In order to support exchange functionality between Ripple currencies and real-world currencies, Ripple needs the a non-revolving credit line, but it doesn't have one. Nobody is going to be able to implement a successful P2P currency exchange on Ripple, because of this infinite inflation feature.

How is this different from Mt Gox or Bitstamp? By that reasoning they couldn't exist, but they do.
Are Mt Gox or Bitstamp P2P currency exchanges?


Since bitstamp is on the ripple network and uses ripple to allow people to both fund and withdraw funds (at least for verified users...)
1513405637
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513405637

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513405637
Reply with quote  #2

1513405637
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513405637
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513405637

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513405637
Reply with quote  #2

1513405637
Report to moderator
1513405637
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513405637

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513405637
Reply with quote  #2

1513405637
Report to moderator
StarfishPrime
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 359


View Profile
November 05, 2013, 10:46:53 PM
 #362

Quote
"Ripple: A Distributed Exchange for Bitcoin"

Except it isn't. If it was, and there was any liquidity to speak of it could serve a useful purpose for arbitrage, etc.

IMHO Ripple's only chance of success is getting bitcoin exchanges to become Ripple gateways. Bitstamp was a good start, but that's just one.

                         
    ¦                     
  ¦    ¦¦¦               
¦¦  ¦¦¦¦                 
                             ¦¦  ¦¦¦¦
                          ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦                     
                         ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦¦¦¦¦
                  ¦¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦
                   ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦

                    ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦
                    ¦¦    ¦¦¦¦
                    ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦
                   ¦¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦
                ¦¦¦¦    ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
             ¦¦¦¦¦    ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
          ¦¦¦¦¦       ¦  ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
        ¦¦¦¦         ¦        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
     ¦¦¦¦          ¦      ¦    ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
    ¦¦¦         ¦¦         ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
   ¦¦        ¦¦         ¦¦  ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
  ¦¦       ¦          ¦ ¦¦   ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦¦     ¦¦          ¦   ¦    ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦     ¦          ¦      ¦   ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦    ¦        ¦¦         ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦   ¦¦     ¦¦         ¦   ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦   ¦     ¦¦         ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦   ¦¦    ¦        ¦    ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦    ¦   ¦        ¦¦    ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
  ¦¦    ¦  ¦¦       ¦     ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
   ¦¦    ¦  ¦      ¦      ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
    ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦     ¦¦     ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
     ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦     ¦¦    ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
       ¦¦¦¦  ¦ ¦¦    ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
          ¦¦¦¦¦¦  ¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
             ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦

.
TorCoin.....
¦
¦
¦
¦
  Fully Anonymous TOR-integrated Crypto
               ¦ Windows     ¦ Linux     ¦ GitHub     ¦ macOS
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
.
   ANN THREAD
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
[/center]
ShadowOfHarbringer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470


Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 12:08:11 PM
 #363

Quote
"Ripple: A Distributed Exchange for Bitcoin"

Except it isn't. If it was, and there was any liquidity to speak of it could serve a useful purpose for arbitrage, etc.

IMHO Ripple's only chance of success is getting bitcoin exchanges to become Ripple gateways. Bitstamp was a good start, but that's just one.
Wouldn't it be better for exchanges to adapt Litecoin instead and use that to move funds ?

abrkn
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile WWW
-
November 06, 2013, 12:09:01 PM
 #364

-

keybase.io/abrkn/key.asc
callem
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 86


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 02:14:15 PM
 #365

Quote
"Ripple: A Distributed Exchange for Bitcoin"

Except it isn't. If it was, and there was any liquidity to speak of it could serve a useful purpose for arbitrage, etc.

IMHO Ripple's only chance of success is getting bitcoin exchanges to become Ripple gateways. Bitstamp was a good start, but that's just one.
Wouldn't it be better for exchanges to adapt Litecoin instead and use that to move funds ?

Good point. The cryptocurrency with the best liquidity will always be the best arbitrage medium. As long as LTC has better liquidity than XRP.

The advantage with LTC is that it's also decentralized/open source.

So just what problem is ripple solving again?
 
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 02:39:46 PM
 #366

Wouldn't it be better for exchanges to adapt Litecoin instead and use that to move funds ?
Good point. The cryptocurrency with the best liquidity will always be the best arbitrage medium. As long as LTC has better liquidity than XRP.

The advantage with LTC is that it's also decentralized/open source.

So just what problem is ripple solving again?
While Bitcoin tries to be the ultimate fiat money (in the sense of "there shall be money", not in the sense of governmentally issued money) and hard asset, Ripple tries to be the ultimate market and transfer mechanism. These can, do and will go hand in hand [...]

If you add BTCLTC pairs on every exchange now, this would have no real influence on the BTCUSD markets... it is already very easy to get money off MtGox - but only if it is in BTC. Adding LTC, NMC, FTC, PPC or whatever other hard asset (yes, also XRP) will NOT change this and also not allow for better arbitrage. Ripple allows you to issue something that is tradeable like a BTC (no reversals, fast transfers...) but that maps something that is redeemable at the borders of the network. Neither LTC, NMC etc. are redeemable for anything, they are only transferable. You would still have to have LTCUSD pairs somewhere liquid and if you have that, LTC would be then more expensive on MtGox than on Bitstamp again.

Adding on layers and layers of hard assets won't change the fact that it is very easy to transfer through these assets but very hard to jump the borders to assets that are not digital in the first place and/or adhere to different rules (like being reversible).

If you only had cash (the closest thing to unregulated and irreversible USD) and a relatively secure way to send it (via mail for example) and make sure there are no counterfeits, you wouldn't have any kind of problem that MtGox currently has for example, having issues with AML/KYC laws and banking regulations/restrictions. They could just get a nice big safe and store their dollar bills there.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
warpio
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 110



View Profile
November 06, 2013, 04:03:43 PM
 #367

I'm still confused about how Ripple works. Is there like, a simple, straight-to-the-point guide that walks you through the process of using Ripple to exchange your money into another currency?

Like, say I have fiat in my bank account, and I want acquire real bitcoins that I can add to my cold wallet. How can I use Ripple to accomplish this?
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 04:37:40 PM
 #368

1) You find a gateway that takes a deposit from your bank account, for example Bitstamp.
2) You deposit your money at this gateway and withdraw to your Ripple account. To do this, you need to have enough capacity in a trust line to this gateway, so they actually can send you the money.
3) You either find a gateway that allows you to withdraw BTC IOUs or just use the built-in Bitcoin bridge.
4a) (the gateway) You deposit BTC at this gateway's account. Ripple automatically gives you a quote when trying to send them money based on current market conditions.
5a) (the gateway) You withdraw these BTC from the gateway to your cold wallet.
4b) (the bridge) You enter a Bitcoin address in the "sending" part of the Ripple client. You then automatically get a quote on how much of your USDs it costs to send them depending on current market conditions.
5b) (the bridge) You actually send the funds (triggering one or several trades along the way) which are behind the scenes converted to BTC IOUs that get redeemed at a special gateway that automatically then sends the BTC shortly afterwards, no need for an account at any gateway.

Compared to BTC where you deposit at an exchange, trade there and withdraw from there, the deposit point and withdrawal point can be distinct entities in ripple, while the trading happens on Ripple itself. This allows for easier regulations and also for better competition. As with any exchange though, market depth is usually also a large factor, so this is why there is not that much action and then again because there is not much action, there is not a lot of depth etc. On the upside, it is quite easy to make markets on Ripple. Smiley

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
mmeijeri
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714

Martijn Meijering


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 07:42:32 PM
 #369

Quote
"Ripple: A Distributed Exchange for Bitcoin"
Except it isn't. If it was, and there was any liquidity to speak of it could serve a useful purpose for arbitrage, etc.

It is a bona fide distributed exchange, but liquidity is very low.

ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
ShadowOfHarbringer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470


Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 10:40:13 PM
 #370

1) You find a gateway that takes a deposit from your bank account, for example Bitstamp.
2) You deposit your money at this gateway and withdraw to your Ripple account. To do this, you need to have enough capacity in a trust line to this gateway, so they actually can send you the money.
3) You either find a gateway that allows you to withdraw BTC IOUs or just use the built-in Bitcoin bridge.
4a) (the gateway) You deposit BTC at this gateway's account. Ripple automatically gives you a quote when trying to send them money based on current market conditions.
5a) (the gateway) You withdraw these BTC from the gateway to your cold wallet.
4b) (the bridge) You enter a Bitcoin address in the "sending" part of the Ripple client. You then automatically get a quote on how much of your USDs it costs to send them depending on current market conditions.
5b) (the bridge) You actually send the funds (triggering one or several trades along the way) which are behind the scenes converted to BTC IOUs that get redeemed at a special gateway that automatically then sends the BTC shortly afterwards, no need for an account at any gateway.
[sarcasm]
Yeah, that sounds pretty simple.
[/sarcasm]
Do I also have to perform a blood ritual in order to transfer my soul to the ripple d(a)emon ?

PS.
No, seriously. That does not sound simple at all. Comparing to simplicity of sending Litecoins from one account to another, this is sounds like crap.

What improvement does Ripple bring over Litecoin ? I still can't grasp the concept.

Valerian77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 398


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 11:18:47 PM
 #371

1) You find a gateway that takes a deposit from your bank account, for example Bitstamp.
...
[sarcasm]
Yeah, that sounds pretty simple.
[/sarcasm]
Do I also have to perform a blood ritual in order to transfer my soul to the ripple d(a)emon ?

 Grin - wanted to write something similar
 

Bitmessage: BM-2cTHvwzzG3cDJxmM7YrYXSaBex4oRobJxu
JoelKatz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1582


Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.


View Profile WWW
November 06, 2013, 11:27:43 PM
 #372

What improvement does Ripple bring over Litecoin ? I still can't grasp the concept.
Litecoin does one and one one thing -- allow you to send Litecoin from one account to another. Ripple allows you to send dollars from one person to another. Ripple allows you to hold the currency of your choice and make payments in the currencies of other people's choices with direct access to the very same liquidity regardless of whether your transfer is for one penny or a million dollars.

Ripple pays a price for these advantages, of course. There are no free lunches. One of them is that it can't move the assets directly and therefore requires gateways.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 11:55:44 PM
 #373

I could post many more steps until the process is atomic ("click on trade" --> "select USD"...) or fewer (Deposit USD at gateway, send to Bitcoin address in Ripple client, done!). Roll Eyes

If you use Litecoin to arbitrage between let's say MtGox and Bitstamp, LTC simply would cost more USD at MtGox than at Bitstamp again, you gain nothing compared to just withdrawing BTC (that are more expensive at MtGox).

Besides technical differences in the architecture, Ripple is different from Litecoin in the sense that it is a market for things representing assets rather than an asset itself, with the only exeption being XRPs. LTC, BTC, NMC etc. are not redeemable, Ripple IOUs are.

As I said: LTC etc. are very good at being assets but suck at trading these for anything else than non-reversible digital currencies, Ripple wants to be one of these non-reversible digital currencies AND also enable anyone to create these currencies, which opposed to LTC are backed by real assets. The valuation of these then is done via an inbuilt market and order book system.

If you want to buy a piece of bread from me for 1 LTC, you can not do that - you can only buy a promise from me to receive 1 piece of bread in the future (either explicitly on Ripple or implicitly via a contract) since there is no way at all (even creating "Breadcoin" that is backed by bread just means it is an IOU) to trade the bread directly in an atomic transaction that doesn't involve IOUs. You can of course make the LTC physical (the other way round) by creating a 1 LTC paper wallet, and then trade directly, this is again an IOU however, as the transaction is not taking place on the blockchain and I have to trust you to not have noted down the key.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
smoothie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2072


LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


View Profile
May 24, 2014, 07:17:32 AM
 #374

Ripple Labs has just unveiled the brand new version of its charting application "Ripple Charts" which you can see here:

http://www.ripplecharts.com/#/

They've got a really amazing team of people working on the public facing components of the payment network. Personally, I have learned a great deal and I have nothing but positive experiences with everyone in the company. They are a great group of folks and a lot of fun to work with!

You have been awfully quiet on this forum.

But here is more info for the kiddies that proved what I suspected would happen all along even way back a year ago when you called me a troll for calling ripple a scam....now look...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/26ccz3/ripple_board_member_resigns/
Quote
Hey ya'll. Jesse from Kraken here.
Today I have submitted my resignation from the Board of Ripple Labs. While I care about the people who work there and I wish the company the best, I cannot personally continue to support the business.
I believe that the technology and the protocol hold great promise, and have since the beginning, which is why I was the company’s first investor. Since Jed's departure, the management of the company has taken a different direction. Sadly, the vision Jed and I had for the project in the early days has been lost. I’m no longer confident in the management nor the company’s ability to recover from the founders’ perplexing allocation to themselves of 20% of the XRP, which I had hoped until recently would be returned. Prior to Jed's departure from Ripple, I had asked the founders to return their XRP to the company. Jed agreed but Chris declined—leaving a stalemate. This afternoon, I revisited the allocation discussion with the pair and again, where Jed was open, Chris was hostile.
As an investor, of course, I hope that Ripple Labs will overcome its hurdles and prove my lack of confidence misplaced. Unfortunately, unlike the founders, I don’t have swathes of XRP to dump if I don't think it's working out.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1040


quack


View Profile
May 24, 2014, 12:06:22 PM
 #375

So you call Ripple a scam but you NEVER tell reason why. If there are some problems inside the Ripple Labs company, it doesn't make Ripple protocol a scam. If someone dumps 9% of all XRPs, it's still not a scam. Could someone explain me why Ripple is a scam?

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
May 24, 2014, 12:54:05 PM
 #376

So you call Ripple a scam but you NEVER tell reason why. If there are some problems inside the Ripple Labs company, it doesn't make Ripple protocol a scam. If someone dumps 9% of all XRPs, it's still not a scam. Could someone explain me why Ripple is a scam?

Bitcoin taught us a few things:

1. don't do a premine or IPO
2. Open source the code from day 1
3. Anything based on debt is going to have a hard time at this point of evolution in the virtual currency space.
4. the importance of being first to market
Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1040


quack


View Profile
May 24, 2014, 03:07:36 PM
 #377

So you call Ripple a scam but you NEVER tell reason why. If there are some problems inside the Ripple Labs company, it doesn't make Ripple protocol a scam. If someone dumps 9% of all XRPs, it's still not a scam. Could someone explain me why Ripple is a scam?

Bitcoin taught us a few things:

1. don't do a premine or IPO
2. Open source the code from day 1
3. Anything based on debt is going to have a hard time at this point of evolution in the virtual currency space.
4. the importance of being first to market

1. You don't need much XRP. You only need a maximum of 50 XRP (costs 0,00034 BTC which is about 0.18 USD) to use the Ripple network for the rest of your life.
2. The source wasn't ready to be published. They were doing major developing back then so it'd be stupid to publish the source and let people set up nodes which need updating like daily due to hard forks.
3. Ripple doesn't compete with Bitcoin really. Ripple is another kind of system.
4. Ripple was first of its kind afaik.

If you don't like that Ripple took all the XRP to themselves at the start, fork it and make alt-Ripple. I wonder why nobody has done this yet, though there were a lot of people saying they will immediately fork Ripple (to remove the "premine") when possible.

TradeFortress
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
May 24, 2014, 03:12:58 PM
 #378

Quote
1. You don't need much XRP. You only need a maximum of 50 XRP (costs 0,00034 BTC which is about 0.18 USD) to use the Ripple network for the rest of your life.
2. The source wasn't ready to be published. They were doing major developing back then so it'd be stupid to publish the source and let people set up nodes which need updating like daily due to hard forks.
3. Ripple doesn't compete with Bitcoin really. Ripple is another kind of system.
4. Ripple was first of its kind afaik.

Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1040


quack


View Profile
May 24, 2014, 03:20:36 PM
 #379

Quote
1. You don't need much XRP. You only need a maximum of 50 XRP (costs 0,00034 BTC which is about 0.18 USD) to use the Ripple network for the rest of your life.
2. The source wasn't ready to be published. They were doing major developing back then so it'd be stupid to publish the source and let people set up nodes which need updating like daily due to hard forks.
3. Ripple doesn't compete with Bitcoin really. Ripple is another kind of system.
4. Ripple was first of its kind afaik.
<image reply>

1. Blah, read ripple docs so you know value of xrp is irrelevant.
2. Bad answer. No value, no information, no reason. A completely irrelevant answer by you.
3. Ripple is NOT like Bitcoin. When will you understand this?
4. You don't even know what you're talking about. Ripplepay wasn't like Ripple protocol these days.

I will now quit answering these same old stupid questions which answers are perfectly clear to everybody except you, TradeFortress.

ShadowOfHarbringer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470


Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952


View Profile
May 25, 2014, 07:54:27 AM
 #380

Ripple is finally dead. How wonderful.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!