The UK Public & Bitcoin

[franky1]

Once things settle down and it's a bit more clear on how the UK (financial system) feels about Bitcoin (more positive) and I know I can stay within their rules, I'd love to operate an exchange, maybe even more than 1. My goal would not be the best, just to achieve something, few others have done, even if it was just having an exchange on this small island without being shutdown.

My first I'm sure would be hardest, It be an exclusive UK exchange, just GBP, UK account holders only (no international trade), very restrictive in that sense plus all the usual security of an exchange. I'm sure I'd have to add a lot of other rules to appease the regulators as well. But if it succeeds here, what I learn from it will make it easier going to other countries with another exchange.

However I'm not going to have my hand bitten of trying to do it while it's clear the regulators and the banks are on a rampage at the moment.
I'm sure later down the line I might see it as a missed my chance to do, but I'm risk adverse and have my primary business to worry about.

regulators are not n the rampage. They are not proactive, they are reactive. its just a lack of due diligence on the part of some of these existent exchanges which when scammy customers try claiming they been robbed in the hopes for a free coin. banks then look into the intricate details. so its best to be open and honest, have a business plan set out exactly upfront that it is a bitcoin business where the terms and conditions are that once the payment is complete its irreversible. keep ip logs, bank account details emails or usernames of your customers (the automatic/voluntary information anyone can get their hands on) auto ban customers trying to use the service using tor/proxy so that any genuine fraud can be investigated without much dead ends. and keep to the value limits of under £850 per day £12500 per year for each customer. and you should be fine.

if people want to stay anonymous. stay with bitcoin. if they want FIAT. then anonymity has to end

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[Chakraball]

The UK banking system is dying. Recently frequent service outages, nationalised Mega banks, actually had the first bank runs in the West for decades in UK. All the money printing, suspension of rule of law for banksters, now over-regulation of the customers not the bankers and you have a recipe for a complete lock-up.

I'm not sympathetic really, since it is the City of London that has housed and fostered the worst of the criminal, crooked, greedy, corrupt and incompetent banking practices that have been exported all over the West, Wall St. is branch of the City of London in many ways. Blowback is a bitch.

Physician heal thyself.

Bank of Dave - http://www.burnleysavingsandloans.co.uk/about-us/

I saw him on the CH 4 documentaries, he visited Germany where community banks are legal and very common, maybe that's why Germany is not in debt like the rest of the West.

[Lethos]

Once things settle down and it's a bit more clear on how the UK (financial system) feels about Bitcoin (more positive) and I know I can stay within their rules, I'd love to operate an exchange, maybe even more than 1. My goal would not be the best, just to achieve something, few others have done, even if it was just having an exchange on this small island without being shutdown.

My first I'm sure would be hardest, It be an exclusive UK exchange, just GBP, UK account holders only (no international trade), very restrictive in that sense plus all the usual security of an exchange. I'm sure I'd have to add a lot of other rules to appease the regulators as well. But if it succeeds here, what I learn from it will make it easier going to other countries with another exchange.

However I'm not going to have my hand bitten of trying to do it while it's clear the regulators and the banks are on a rampage at the moment.
I'm sure later down the line I might see it as a missed my chance to do, but I'm risk adverse and have my primary business to worry about.

regulators are not n the rampage. They are not proactive, they are reactive. its just a lack of due diligence on the part of some of these existent exchanges which when scammy customers try claiming they been robbed in the hopes for a free coin. banks then look into the intricate details. so its best to be open and honest, have a business plan set out exactly upfront that it is a bitcoin business where the terms and conditions are that once the payment is complete its irreversible. keep ip logs, bank account details emails or usernames of your customers (the automatic/voluntary information anyone can get their hands on) auto ban customers trying to use the service using tor/proxy so that any genuine fraud can be investigated without much dead ends. and keep to the value limits of under £850 per day £12500 per year for each customer. and you should be fine.

if people want to stay anonymous. stay with bitcoin. if they want FIAT. then anonymity has to end

Poor choice of words on my part I guess (They just harsher than most) and this does make me want to be cautious and give myself enough time to fully plan everything.
Also I'm going to need colo another server, wasn't planning to do another one till next year.
However I do know some exchanges in the uk at least made out they did the above (they could of lied) and still had problems with their banks.
But I agree with what you say, as it's good advice. Such restrictions do not bother me, as I was planning to be that tight on the limits.

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

I think the reality is the UK government are way to hung up on public image, they would rather spend years deciding on something and wasting millions in the process. I guess we will have to wait until new economies start to emerge using growing technologies and then we will have to catch up when it is politically(financially) approachable by the mainstream. How about we create our own Bitcoin political party for the UK lol?

[Traktion]

Now TransferWise have had the rug pulled from under them: Their bank has told them to stop transferring money to Bitcoin exchanges.

CurrencyFair is a suitable replacement for Transferwise for those in the UK (and other countries they support), correct?

My father has used them in the past for GBP/Euro transfers and rates them. I've signed up and will see how it goes.

I've used localbitcoins a few times too and that has always worked well. The prices tended to be higher and slower to move (down) than the exchanges though. Saying that, the prices are pretty close to MtGox atm.

[franky1]

regulations concerning alternative currencies whether foreign, virtual or crypto have not changed. intersango dropped GBP not due to bitcoin but due to banking issues unrelated.

blockchain.info i think dropped it 1 due to the price dump and secondly rumours are that because he advertised his "product" as advertising revenue, yet it was bitcoins. that got him into a bit of sticky water.

the main and genuine issues alot of people have seen are
1. exceeding limits.
2. moving exceeding limits abroad.

so a direct UK only pounds for bitcoins exchange would have less issues then a pound->transferwise->dollar->okpay->btc-e hop skip and jump where the "customer" involved gets lost within the many leaps.

i have done alot of the legal research and spoken to banks, HMRC and FSA and it is more straight forward then most armchair anarkists shout about.

only issue is i dont have the time or the resourses to put plans to action. so i just use my knowledge to help others develop bitcoin in the UK (a few secret projects coming up)

but i wont reveal them or get peoples hopes up just yet as i call that "doing a BFL"

but if you have any concerns about VAT etc (which is not a worry untill a single bitcoin reaches £6,000) or other tax, fsa stuff, message me and ill point you in the right direction, which saves reading through 20 pages of documents to find the single sentence of valuable information

[Lethos]

Thank you Franky, I'll send you a PM just so I don't forget.

[bitbadger]

No its just UK banks charge extortionate fees for international and even just EU intra-SEPA transfers for UK personal accounts.  You can tho use TransferWise to get money into Bitstamp or MtGox for just £1 but I'm not sure if it works the same for withdrawals.

My bank charges £25 per SEPA transfer, what a joke!

A bank transfer is just a few entries into a computer database front end.

In fact there's probably very little that even has to be entered by hand by the bank staff nowadays and most of what is entered is already done by the customer his or herself in the case of an online account. So a SEPA should only cost about 25p not  £25.

The bank cartel continue to con the public into thinking an international money transfer is some big deal that must be very expensive. It's just playing on people's assumptions and what they have become used to.

It was the same with international phone calls. People were taught to accept an international phone call is something expensive.

It took Skype to come along and change this. And likewise iTunes with record industry and their insane CD prices.

This is why we need transfer systems like Bitcoin to put an end to this nonsense.

The point people have made about how difficult it is to purchase or trade in Bitcoins in the UK is very true. The banks and government in the UK want to deny Bitcoin the chance to gain any footing in the country.

They want to keep Bitcoin out of the UK and keep it marginalised because it threatens:  

1) the banking system as it exists right now  and 2) the government's fiscal policy and autonomy with Sterling - UK of course doesnt have the Euro and wants to keep control over its own currency.

It's going to be one hard struggle against the City of London on this. Good luck to Max Keiser if he wants to open a bitcoin exchange based in the UK. Frankly I wouldnt even bother. It would be too risky with all the hostility and regulation. Host it somewhere else well out of the way of London.

[bitbadger]

How about we create our own Bitcoin political party for the UK lol?

What about the Pirate Party? Wouldn't Bitcoin be an ideal concept for them to promote? Or if not then maybe the Greens? Though they'd probably get all hung up about the electricity consumption of all the Bitcoin miners.

[AJS_]

Quite frankly the City are a set of contradictory ego based narcissist. This doesn't surprise me in any way.
Moving forward though, so what are the options of getting GBP into exchanges (Mt.Gox, Bitstamp particularly thanks to its SEPA) at present after this fiasco?