This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

[myrkul]

What threat from higher powers keeps the US government from exploiting it's citizens in the way you describe?

If you want the right answers, you have to ask the right questions!

If we go back to that analogy I used earlier where e.g.: each country = 1 person, the 'world' with 200-and-something inhabitants would basically be an An-Cap society.
So:
What stops the US -- as a person with some psychological issues -- from "cutting itself"? Charity.
What stops the US -- as a big fat bully -- from attacking other people? That super-effective arbitration and stuff (read: probably the UN and some think-tanks).

And the same mechanisms would prevent a non-state entity from abusing it's customers, with the additional disincentive of losing those customers to another entity.

And, of course, as I stated earlier, the "property" of the various states extant is mostly stolen, whereas the territory of the non-state entities would be voluntarily assigned.

Do you own your own body? Surely you didn't "steal" it from your individual cells?

Surely you're not comparing the citizens of a country to the cells of a body?

When/if they demand freedom, I'll grant it.

[myrkul]

Oh, I think I see what this is. You got pwned on the FDR forums, didn't you?

No, never been there. I have no reason to go there.

You don't say....

i should join their forum, and see how long before a ban. if i did said i supported communism...

it was meant as a joke on the libertards. I don't want to fight a meaning less war, and im not a communist...

actually when im with some of my communistic friends i become a libertard, just for the fun of it.

And you call me crazy. That's rich.

but you are! you believe in a hallucination called "reality".

Yeah, OK, Dank.

[kokjo]

Surely you're not comparing the citizens of a country to the cells of a body?

When/if they demand freedom, I'll grant it.

wtf! so if your hand decided to leave the rest of your body you would let it? don't you need hands dude?

Yeah, OK, Dank.

See, i realize and considers the possibility of living in the matrix, while you laugh at me and telling me that im on lsd. I reserve the right to call you narrow minded and crazy.

[myrkul]

Surely you're not comparing the citizens of a country to the cells of a body?

When/if they demand freedom, I'll grant it.

wtf! so if your hand decided to leave the rest of your body you would let it?

Indeed I would. But since my cells, organs, and limbs are not sentient, I doubt I'll need to worry about it.

Yeah, OK, Dank.

See, i realize and considers the possibility of living in the matrix, while you laugh at me and telling me that im on lsd. I reserve the right to call you narrow minded and crazy.

You're welcome to your comfortable illusions, if you like. I will deal with reality as I see it.

[kokjo]

Surely you're not comparing the citizens of a country to the cells of a body?

When/if they demand freedom, I'll grant it.

wtf! so if your hand decided to leave the rest of your body you would let it?

Indeed I would. But since my cells, organs, and limbs are not sentient, I doubt I'll need to worry about it.

again: WTF!!!!

Yeah, OK, Dank.

See, i realize and considers the possibility of living in the matrix, while you laugh at me and telling me that im on lsd. I reserve the right to call you narrow minded and crazy.

You're welcome to your comfortable illusions, if you like. I will deal with reality as I see it.

it is you who live in the illusion. i recognize that it can be an illusion, but still deals with because its fun.

[myrkul]

Surely you're not comparing the citizens of a country to the cells of a body?

When/if they demand freedom, I'll grant it.

wtf! so if your hand decided to leave the rest of your body you would let it?

Indeed I would. But since my cells, organs, and limbs are not sentient, I doubt I'll need to worry about it.

again: WTF!!!!

You would tie your hand to your arm to prevent it leaving? And when it throttled you in your sleep?

Yeah, OK, Dank.

See, i realize and considers the possibility of living in the matrix, while you laugh at me and telling me that im on lsd. I reserve the right to call you narrow minded and crazy.

You're welcome to your comfortable illusions, if you like. I will deal with reality as I see it.

it is you who live in the illusion. i recognize that it can be an illusion, but still deals with because its fun.

It doesn't matter if it's an illusion or not. You must treat it like it is reality in order to operate in it.

[kokjo]

Surely you're not comparing the citizens of a country to the cells of a body?

When/if they demand freedom, I'll grant it.

wtf! so if your hand decided to leave the rest of your body you would let it?

Indeed I would. But since my cells, organs, and limbs are not sentient, I doubt I'll need to worry about it.

again: WTF!!!!

You would tie your hand to your arm to prevent it leaving? And when it throttled you in your sleep?

but i need my hand!

Yeah, OK, Dank.

See, i realize and considers the possibility of living in the matrix, while you laugh at me and telling me that im on lsd. I reserve the right to call you narrow minded and crazy.

You're welcome to your comfortable illusions, if you like. I will deal with reality as I see it.

it is you who live in the illusion. i recognize that it can be an illusion, but still deals with because its fun.

It doesn't matter if it's an illusion or not. You must treat it like it is reality in order to operate in it.

it does matter. i don't treat a game of counter strike as reality, but its still fun.

[myrkul]

Surely you're not comparing the citizens of a country to the cells of a body?

When/if they demand freedom, I'll grant it.

wtf! so if your hand decided to leave the rest of your body you would let it?

Indeed I would. But since my cells, organs, and limbs are not sentient, I doubt I'll need to worry about it.

again: WTF!!!!

You would tie your hand to your arm to prevent it leaving? And when it throttled you in your sleep?

but i need my hand!

Enough to break a finger to keep it?

Yeah, OK, Dank.

See, i realize and considers the possibility of living in the matrix, while you laugh at me and telling me that im on lsd. I reserve the right to call you narrow minded and crazy.

You're welcome to your comfortable illusions, if you like. I will deal with reality as I see it.

it is you who live in the illusion. i recognize that it can be an illusion, but still deals with because its fun.

It doesn't matter if it's an illusion or not. You must treat it like it is reality in order to operate in it.

it does matter. i don't treat a game of counter strike as reality, but its still fun.

You can exit the game of CS.

[Walter Rothbard]

Beautiful post on another thread, kokjo:

This forum is privately owned.
This forum is not a democracy.
This forum does not have unlimited freedom of speech.
This forum is not is not a place where you shit.

If you don't like it: fuck off, no one forces you to stay.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were ancap!!!

[hawkeye]

it does matter. i don't treat a game of counter strike as reality, but its still fun.

So why don't you go around shooting people in this illusion like you do in the CS illusion?

[Rassah]

circle jerking on this forum can not be considered education of the masses...

It's certainly educating me   Now I can educate others.

I certainly learned a lot, too. Don't forget, two or three years ago I was a liberal, pro-regulation, pro-Keynesian economics democrat.

[myrkul]

circle jerking on this forum can not be considered education of the masses...

It's certainly educating me   Now I can educate others.

I certainly learned a lot, too. Don't forget, two or three years ago I was a liberal, pro-regulation, pro-Keynesian economics democrat.

That is a lot.

btw, were you just fuckin' with me, or did you really consider Production of Security too long? Because I wasn't joking, when I said it was very short for the genre.

[Rassah]

circle jerking on this forum can not be considered education of the masses...

It's certainly educating me  Now I can educate others.

I certainly learned a lot, too. Don't forget, two or three years ago I was a liberal, pro-regulation, pro-Keynesian economics democrat.

That is a lot.

btw, were you just fuckin' with me, or did you really consider Production of Security too long? Because I wasn't joking, when I said it was very short for the genre.

Yes, it's too long. It would be fine in a proper debate, but this is a forum debate, where you can't expect the other guy to have the courtesy to try to fully understand your position, or expect him to have the attention span or mental capacity to grasp more than a few simple points and counter arguments at a time. For example, blablahblah seems to be under the impression that by "security" the paper is talking about "people generally behaving well," as opposed to actual scarce security products, such as private security personnel and tech that we would have to pay for. He also in turn misses the point that we do pay for all that security through taxes, but just don't have a say in whom we pick to secure us. Yet at the same time he seems to get what it is by coming up with an example of why such private security wouldn't work by saying "marauding by night, securing by day," and even saying that's it's naive to think private security would work. Which is even more ironic, since he mentions competition almost right after that, which makes me think that he is so deeply stuck in his belief that only one thing can provide security, that being government, that it's doubtful his mind can be changed. I mean, any other person would have realized right away that, in a competitive market, a company that had "marauding by night, securing by day" would quickly lose customers to a competing security company that would prevent nightly maraudings. Hell, even without competition, the company would lose customers because it is obviously failing to provide security it's being paid for.
I guess what I'm saying is blablahblah is kind of dumb.

[myrkul]

I guess what I'm saying is blablahblah is kind of dumb.

I had to try three times to write a response to this. You really should be writing for Leno. Or maybe Colbert. I bet he'd pay in Bitcoins.

Edit: Wait, I have an even better one.

[hawkeye]

circle jerking on this forum can not be considered education of the masses...

It's certainly educating me   Now I can educate others.

Me also.  I've come across this accusation before.  It's basically trying to get people to shut up by implying that what they are doing is useless and wasting their time.

The reality is that this is the new media and we are all able to give our opinion now, unlike newsprint or TV where you just have a few people imposing their (often bad and often wrong) opinions on society.

[myrkul]

Honestly, for a forum debate, this is the perfect length. If you're not at least swayed to consider liberty from that, you're either a heartless psychopath, or a blithering idiot.

[Mike Christ]

circle jerking on this forum can not be considered education of the masses...

It's certainly educating me   Now I can educate others.

I certainly learned a lot, too. Don't forget, two or three years ago I was a liberal, pro-regulation, pro-Keynesian economics democrat.

Exactly the same here.  I was in favor of gun bans (for some reason, I thought this might help anything) and thought anarchists were a bunch of loonies who had no idea how "the system worked".  Realized they're like Atheists; they know more about the state more than anyone supporting the state does, which is why they're against it to begin with.

[kokjo]

circle jerking on this forum can not be considered education of the masses...

It's certainly educating me   Now I can educate others.

I certainly learned a lot, too. Don't forget, two or three years ago I was a liberal, pro-regulation, pro-Keynesian economics democrat.

Exactly the same here.  I was in favor of gun bans (for some reason, I thought this might help anything) and thought anarchists were a bunch of loonies who had no idea how "the system worked".  Realized they're like Atheists; they know more about the state more than anyone supporting the state does, which is why they're against it to begin with.

Atheists are wrong, they believe there is no god(s)(yes, i used believe; let the flamewar begin!). Agnostics are better, they just accept that they don't know, and it does not matter whatever there exist god(s) or not.

the only thing that i have learned about ancap on this forum is that people are crazy. I have become more statist then i was before.

so you are not convincing me, you are not convincing blablahblah, and you are not convincing mystery miner. and you other people are not circle jerking, with people who share your believes.


in the state of Denmark, i have more then enough freedom to be happy. and i think giving me more freedom and responsibility would make me less happy. It is nice to have a state to blame when stuff fucks up.

[myrkul]

in the state of Denmark, i have more then enough freedom to be happy. and i think giving me more freedom and responsibility would make me less happy. It is nice to have a state to blame when stuff fucks up.

Yup, personal responsibility is a bitch, it's nice to have mommy Government to fall back on, huh? Too bad she's such an abusive parent.

[hawkeye]

in the state of Denmark, i have more then enough freedom to be happy. and i think giving me more freedom and responsibility would make me less happy. It is nice to have a state to blame when stuff fucks up.

Denmark, huh.  No wonder you guys love the state.

Danes Rethink a Welfare State
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/world/europe/danes-rethink-a-welfare-state-ample-to-a-fault.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&


But I wouldn't get too comfortable, if I were you...