This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism

[myrkul]

This "mine" concept is just an intuitive idea of scarcity, and possibly wanting to conserve or save certain items from being taken away/consumed.

So, what you're saying is that children have an intuitive grasp of capitalism?

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

"That depends on what you mean by 'holding' "

lmao that's exactly spot on.  Let's not forget the part about being a brain in a vat.

You want to see the sparks? Very worthwhile conversation starts here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180345.msg1896675#msg1896675

LOL.  That was hilarious!

[Mike Christ]

You want to see the sparks? Very worthwhile conversation starts here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180345.msg1896675#msg1896675

 That's hilarious.  So much for solipsism.  Even if I was just a brain in a vat and you were all in my head, I can never prove it.  All I can do is assume this is all real, and play the game.

[myrkul]

This "mine" concept is just an intuitive idea of scarcity, and possibly wanting to conserve or save certain items from being taken away/consumed.

So, what you're saying is that children have an intuitive grasp of capitalism?

Only if they are subjected to scarcity. Greed is a virtue, remember? Now make your kids feel pain!

Then why is it that all children exhibit the "mine" behavior, and the children least exposed to scarcity are the worst about it?

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

This "mine" concept is just an intuitive idea of scarcity, and possibly wanting to conserve or save certain items from being taken away/consumed.

So, what you're saying is that children have an intuitive grasp of capitalism?

Only if they are subjected to scarcity. Greed is a virtue, remember? Now make your kids feel pain!

Ah, so if only *someone* would provide every kid in the sandbox with a fire engine, a dump truck, a cement mixer, etc, but if another kid brings a grader, all bets are off, because it's "artificially scarce".  Shouldn't you be off manufacturing kids toys and resolving playground disputes so as to train them into the virtues of supporting the all-supporting state?  Or are you more likely to force toy manufacturers to give their stuff away at gunpoint?

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

This "mine" concept is just an intuitive idea of scarcity, and possibly wanting to conserve or save certain items from being taken away/consumed.

So, what you're saying is that children have an intuitive grasp of capitalism?

Only if they are subjected to scarcity. Greed is a virtue, remember? Now make your kids feel pain!

Then why is it that all children exhibit the "mine" behavior, and the children least exposed to scarcity are the worst about it?

Pretty much every form of life exhibits the "Mine" behavior, in one way or another, otherwise they'd all starve.

[myrkul]

Pretty much every form of life exhibits the "Mine" behavior, in one way or another, otherwise they'd all starve.

A fact of life Socialists seem to forget.

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

Pretty much every form of life exhibits the "Mine" behavior, in one way or another, otherwise they'd all starve.

A fact of life Socialists seem to forget.

Every now and then, reality reminds them. Sadly, always after they starve a few million people.

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

You want to see the sparks? Very worthwhile conversation starts here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180345.msg1896675#msg1896675

 That's hilarious.  So much for solipsism.  Even if I was just a brain in a vat and you were all in my head, I can never prove it.  All I can do is assume this is all real, and play the game.

Prove it to whom?
from the wikipedia...

Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self") is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind.

In terms of being an "out there" idea, it actually seems really modest. It pretty much minimises any claims of knowing stuff and believing stuff. Cogito ergo sum.

Look up "Boltzmann Brain".   The fact that the universe seems to be ordered and consistent (Relativity, quantum mechanics, etc) is a very strong argument against solipsism.

[myrkul]

blablahblah

Yup, "I leave you alone, you leave me alone." Sounds just like communism.

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

Pretty much every form of life exhibits the "Mine" behavior, in one way or another, otherwise they'd all starve.

A fact of life Socialists seem to forget.

Every now and then, reality reminds them. Sadly, always after they starve a few million people.

You're mixing them up with Communists (not that I'm a fan of either). There's a bit of Socialism all over Europe and are people starving by the millions? No, because they're not fundamentalists. Communists were obsessed with getting rid of private property, making everything part of the State, and shoving State propaganda down people's throat...

Now why does that sound so familiar...??

It sounds just like An-Cap! They seem obsessed with getting rid of all government+'commons'+public property, making everything private, and pushing their "one size fits all" N.A.P. propaganda. Different ideology, same fundamentalist mindset.

Due to the EU's socialist policies, people are starving in Spain and Greece, and even in the UK, people are freezing in the winter due to their energy policies.  Not dying by the millions...yet.

[myrkul]

blablahblah

Yup, "I leave you alone, you leave me alone." Sounds just like communism.

"Members look after the State, the State looks after its members."

Nope, doesn't looks the same to me. Doesn't sound the same, either.

You sure you know how to read?

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

blablahblah

Yup, "I leave you alone, you leave me alone." Sounds just like communism.

"Members look after the State, the State looks after its members."

I sometimes wonder about those wacky conspiracy theories claiming that 19th~20th century Russia and the US were a grand experiment in social engineering to see whose ideology works better. Of course the US lasted a bit longer, but the Russians were probably better educated.

So, in your mind "looks after" is the same as "leaves alone".  'Nuff said.

[Mike Christ]

Prove it to whom?
from the wikipedia...

Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self") is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind.

In terms of being an "out there" idea, it actually seems really modest. It pretty much minimises any claims of knowing stuff and believing stuff. Cogito ergo sum.

Couldn't be sure of it myself; as is solipsism, the only thing I can be sure of is that I have something with which to interpret, I could never prove to myself that what I was experiencing was real, or not; all I can know for sure is that I am.

Therefor, it's as pointless as pondering life after death.  Since I just don't know, and can't know, I may as well continue believing that I'm not the only existing mind in the world.  It also seems to encourage people to believe in whatever they want to believe, since they can never "know it".  For example, my apple is an orange--wait, no it isn't, because I can't prove it exists either way!  Except that's silly; since I can't know that I can't know, I may as well assume my apple is not an orange because it's an apple, not because I can't know it does, in fact, exist.  Certainly, I may be a brain in a vat and imagining it all to begin with, but since I don't know that, I'm going to figure I'm not.

Besides, if I subscribed to solipsism, I'm not sure you even exist.  But in your mind, you're not sure if I exist.  You're a figment of my imagination, and I'm a figment of yours.  We can always assume that you're the real one and I'm not, and vice versa, but I think I find it better to say that, since we can never know that, it's better to assume that we're both existing, and that, since we're not sure which one's the one having the illusion of life, we may as well run off of what is most likely: we're both two guys who have computers and experiencing life through two different minds.  I could go in circles and say something like, "But what if everything isn't real!", but then I'd realize I still can't know that.  Since the illusion is this, and not something else, I'm going to roll with it, and take it as reality; unless another reality (a second illusion) takes the spot of this one, and since the first has not been changed since my inception, it's safe to say that this is it.

Also, it seems to be popular with the autistic crowd, which isn't surprising, as they're already disconnected from reality, so why not take it to the next level?

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

blablahblah

Yup, "I leave you alone, you leave me alone." Sounds just like communism.

"Members look after the State, the State looks after its members."

I sometimes wonder about those wacky conspiracy theories claiming that 19th~20th century Russia and the US were a grand experiment in social engineering to see whose ideology works better. Of course the US lasted a bit longer, but the Russians were probably better educated.

Do you have any idea what Russia was like, both before and after Stalin?  Is staying power the criterion you use to gauge success?  Do individual rights and freedoms mean nothing?

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

Prove it to whom?
from the wikipedia...

Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self") is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind.

In terms of being an "out there" idea, it actually seems really modest. It pretty much minimises any claims of knowing stuff and believing stuff. Cogito ergo sum.

Couldn't be sure of it myself; as is solipsism, the only thing I can be sure of is that I have something with which to interpret, I could never prove to myself that what I was experiencing was real, or not; all I can know for sure is that I am.

Therefor, it's as pointless as pondering life after death.  Since I just don't know, and can't know, I may as well continue believing that I'm not the only existing mind in the world.  It also seems to encourage people to believe in whatever they want to believe, since they can never "know it".  For example, my apple is an orange--wait, no it isn't, because I can't prove it exists either way!  Except that's silly; since I can't know that I can't know, I may as well assume my apple is not an orange because it's an apple, not because I can't know it does, in fact, exist.  Certainly, I may be a brain in a vat and imagining it all to begin with, but since I don't know that, I'm going to figure I'm not.

Besides, if I subscribed to solipsism, I'm not sure you even exist.  But in your mind, you're not sure if I exist.  You're a figment of my imagination, and I'm a figment of yours.  We can always assume that you're the real one and I'm not, and vice versa, but I think I find it better to say that, since we can never know that, it's better to assume that we're both existing, and that, since we're not sure which one's the one having the illusion of life, we may as well run off of what is most likely: we're both two guys who have computers and experiencing life through two different minds.  I could go in circles and say something like, "But what if everything isn't real!", but then I'd realize I still can't know that.  Since the illusion is this, and not something else, I'm going to roll with it, and take it as reality; unless another reality (a second illusion) takes the spot of this one, and since the first has not been changed since my inception, it's safe to say that this is it.

Also, it seems to be popular with the autistic crowd, which isn't surprising, as they're already disconnected from reality, so why not take it to the next level?

If solipsism were valid, it shouldn't take me so long to "make up" an understanding of tensor analysis and Hermitian operators.

[FreedomEqualsRiches]

Due to the EU's socialist policies, people are starving in Spain and Greece, and even in the UK, people are freezing in the winter due to their energy policies.  Not dying by the millions...yet.

Meh.
-Vulture Capitalist Bankers selling CDOs and CDS' to small/new/vulnerable EU members, hoping to speculate a la George Soros and the Bank of England.
-Some of those stupid tin-pot governments with corrupt officials probably should not have been allowed into the EU anyway.
-What to do after the fact? It's a mess anyway.
-England seems like a strange case, like a mini-US. Too many bankers, not enough real industry. And what's the Monarchy's agenda in all of this?

You basically prove my point that socialism is merely a marketing ploy for massive corruption.

[Rassah]

Did someone mention Somalia?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323820304578410573747048086.html

Building a high class resort, providing own private security, and training locals to fight oppressors and attackers, including fighting off religious extremists. Sounds like it might be a promising future.

[Rassah]

Communists were obsessed with getting rid of private property, making everything part of the State, and shoving State propaganda down people's throat...

Now why does that sound so familiar...??

It sounds just like An-Cap! They seem obsessed with getting rid of all government+'commons'+public property, making everything private, and pushing their "one size fits all" N.A.P. propaganda.

...

getting rid of private property, making everything part of the State

getting rid of all government+'commons'+public property, making everything private

Wait, are you serious? Did you really just state two exactly and completely opposite things, and claim they are exactly the same?
Is your definition of "just like" completely different from everyone else's? Or were you trying to say something else and your language skills completely failed you? How is wanting government "just like" not wanting government?

[kokjo]

"That depends on what you mean by 'holding' "

lmao that's exactly spot on.  Let's not forget the part about being a brain in a vat.

You want to see the sparks? Very worthwhile conversation starts here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180345.msg1896675#msg1896675

Post of the thread:

My Lord! What have I unleashed?!!